Post-Game Talk: Paging Oranje Wood

[AddyTheWrath]

Mistakes are what rooks tend to made of and need to be made at this level in order to experience it and learn from it. Bakersfield will be no such incubation for a player of this skill level. We have to ride it out with Holloway, or should, and we should be able to shelter rookie mistakes better than we do. The Kings young lineup make tons of mistakes every game, normally more than last night but they play a unified system and levels of D. It would be nice if we did any of that. For Holloway as well as the betterment of team. The learning ground is here. The NHL hills Holloway has to learn to climb are here. He's a resilient sort but my take is he needs to be in the show now. He isn't somebody you park in the minors for long. Plus with Kane out we could use his talent in the lineup.

I tend to agree with this but we need to put him with better players than Ryan and Shore. At least give him a spot on the third line with Clouder and Janmark.

 

[iCanada]

They had another laughing and giggles practice leading to this game. Apparently winning one game is always reason for this club to be overconfident.

Pregame I saw lots of intensity in Kings room before game. They did everything to try to amp the Oilers up for this game, Metallica, flashing lights, loud noises. They come out like church mouse again promptly getting outshot 12-2. Kings had 6 qualtiy chances before we had anything.

To be fair to the oilers though, you had to know the Kings were going to want it more than us tonight. They've spent 6 months waiting to prove a point tonight. Just like the Flames ran our show in the first BoA this year, we ran Winnipeg's show the first game last year, and ran Chicago's show the first time we played them after the bubble.

I'm sure we'll make the Avs look silly when we play them too.

It's the nature of these first rematch games after the playoffs. One team forgets all about the battle they had, and the other spends every waking moment champing at the bit to prove they have the next level that they didn't show in the playoffs.

 

[McDNicks17]

When Nurse has his feet moving he is very good in transition.

He has problems (like a lot of Oilers) when he's standing around trying to thread home run passes. Everything with him is better when he has his feet going.

I feel like Woody would be smart to change the system to have more of a focus on carry-outs.

That's Nurse's #1 strength. Kulak is great at it. Broberg would probably do better with it whenever he gets here. Even a guy like Ceci seems to do better carrying the puck rather than trying to outlet it.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

you can probably track your downward spiral of interest by looking at the league in relation to sports betting --- from the Tocchet scandal to Vegas expansion, and a guy famous for playing a meth head telling you to download a sports betting app every 10 minutes.

The Vegas expansion didn't bother me to be honest. Trying to resuscitate a franchise that has been a diseased, rotted corpse for the last 10 years in Arizona bothers me more when Gary moved teams out of Canada rather quickly.

Betting or who is betting in general doesn't bother me either, unless they're betting on their own team. What bothers me is how many gambling sites are sponsors of the NHL (gambling has always been linked to organized crime throughout time) and the real start of my loss of interest was the NBA ref (refs?) who got busted gambling on games he (or they) were officiating affecting outcomes. NHL officiating has been trash for a very long time and I've often pondered how many refs are doing the same as the NBA ref, only they're hiding it better. The way some refs call games...

Even if it's not happening, the "game management", the incredibly biased officiating, the way the league protects the rats of the league, how the DoPS is ran (kneeing should be an automatic in person hearing) and the league turning a blind eye to blatant rule violations and carpet sweeping (ie: The Lightning and Kucherov) is just killing my interest more and more as these issues are getting worse and worse each new season. I miss the Andy Van Hellemonds, Kerry Frasers and Paul Devorskis of the officiating world.

I recently came to the realisation I still love hockey but I now absolutely despise the NHL. I really do.

My rant has gone way off topic for this PGT so last post on this.

 

[foshizzle]

The evidence is that he sewers McD, quite obvious

Lol, so you have zero evidence to support your argument. Feel free to post it when you do. You can use natural stat trick. I look forward to seeing your evidence based conclusions.

 

[Messrules11]

Lol, so you have zero evidence to support your argument. Feel free to post it when you do. You can use natural stat trick. I look forward to seeing your evidence based conclusions.

I have to laugh at the analytics junkies, such garbage stats. He has one goal, he sucks, plain and simple. He called for a pass last night and couldn’t even control it when it came. Let me know when he takes the puck to the net ffs.

 

[Mez]

Lol, so you have zero evidence to support your argument. Feel free to post it when you do. You can use natural stat trick. I look forward to seeing your evidence based conclusions.

Haha what am I reading. In case your confused...real world results > excel sheet numbers when it comes to "evidence."

First line time needs to equal production. Otherwise he can go back to the 3rd line.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

I have to laugh at the analytics junkies, such garbage stats. He has one goal, he sucks, plain and simple. He called for a pass last night and couldn’t even control it when it came. Let me know when he takes the puck to the net ffs.

You can't spell analytics without "anal" which what they are, ass stats.

I don't know if Corsica and Fender were kept track of when Yakupov was an Oiler but I wonder what his Fancy Dan's would have been like.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

The Vegas expansion didn't bother me to be honest. Trying to resuscitate a franchise that has been a diseased, rotted corpse for the last 10 years in Arizona bothers me more when Gary moved teams out of Canada rather quickly.

Betting or who is betting in general doesn't bother me either, unless they're betting on their own team. What bothers me is how many gambling sites are sponsors of the NHL (gambling has always been linked to organized crime throughout time) and the real start of my loss of interest was the NBA ref (refs?) who got busted gambling on games he (or they) were officiating affecting outcomes. NHL officiating has been trash for a very long time and I've often pondered how many refs are doing the same as the NBA ref, only they're hiding it better. The way some refs call games...

Even if it's not happening, the "game management", the incredibly biased officiating, the way the league protects the rats of the league, how the DoPS is ran (kneeing should be an automatic in person hearing) and the league turning a blind eye to blatant rule violations and carpet sweeping (ie: The Lightning and Kucherov) is just killing my interest more and more as these issues are getting worse and worse each new season. I miss the Andy Van Hellemonds, Kerry Frasers and Paul Devorskis of the officiating world.

I recently came to the realisation I still love hockey but I now absolutely despise the NHL. I really do.

My rant has gone way off topic for this PGT so last post on this.

I was just meaning the nhl cosying up to vegas is the same timeline as the rules becoming weird and confusing for me.

Otherwise I sort of agree.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Mistakes are what rooks tend to made of and need to be made at this level in order to experience it and learn from it. Bakersfield will be no such incubation for a player of this skill level. We have to ride it out with Holloway, or should, and we should be able to shelter rookie mistakes better than we do. The Kings young lineup make tons of mistakes every game, normally more than last night but they play a unified system and levels of D. It would be nice if we did any of that. For Holloway as well as the betterment of team. The learning ground is here. The NHL hills Holloway has to learn to climb are here. He's a resilient sort but my take is he needs to be in the show now. He isn't somebody you park in the minors for long. Plus with Kane out we could use his talent in the lineup.

I see your point but respectfully disagree. The NHL isn’t a developmental league (unless your the Oilers) whereas the AHL is where you go to hone and fine tune your game unless your a McDavid level talent.

Get Holloway going 20 minutes a night there so he can effectively and confidently play 12 - 14 minutes a night here.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Lol, so you have zero evidence to support your argument. Feel free to post it when you do. You can use natural stat trick. I look forward to seeing your evidence based conclusions.

He has produced nothing of tangible value this season despite playing with top 6 players over 2/3rds of his ice time who have produced tangible results.

Go look at the real stats. There’s your evidence. Real production outweighs expected 100% of the time.

Also eyeballs and knowledge still have a place in a spreadsheet World. I don’t track how many Kills play dead / 60 he has playing with top 6 players but I imagine it’s right up there.

 

[walktheboulavard]

I see your point but respectfully disagree. The NHL isn’t a developmental league (unless your the Oilers) whereas the AHL is where you go to hone and fine tune your game unless your a McDavid level talent.

Get Holloway going 20 minutes a night there so he can effectively and confidently play 12 - 14 minutes a night here.

Agreed, here. Send him down. Get him on a line centering Benson and Bourgault and let them light up the A. Right now he just needs to play big minutes and score goals again. The way he's deployed and results in the NHL so far could potentially do more harm than good.

 

[syz]

The only thing that kills more plays than Puljujarvi is the Oilers defense. It's been true for like 10 years but for some reason it doesn't seem to bother anybody.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The only thing that kills more plays than Puljujarvi is the Oilers defense. It's been true for like 10 years but for some reason it doesn't seem to bother anybody.

Barrie was the highest scoring D a couple of years ago, last year the Oilers D was among the top scoring D in the league, Barrie 9th in D scoring this year, not sure your argument holds water.

Now if you are talking about defending....the Oilers team defence needs a ton of work....again.

 

[The Panther]

The Oilers are a good team. They just don't play like one consistently. And it's very easy for opposition to make a game plan vs. Edmonton. Here's what you need to do:
-- heavy-ass forecheck
-- don't take penalties

The Oilers somehow get fooled by this every time---like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football from Lucy---and end up giving pucks away under forecheck and then get running around and take penalties. At the end of most nights, the Oilers are outshot (they haven't outshot a playoff team yet this season) and have had 1 PP to the opposition's 5. Or whatever.

What's very evident to me is that when the Oilers' lines are all skating hard and they apply the heavy-ass forecheck themselves, and when they're aggressive (not sitting back) on the PK, they are a very good team. But for some reason, they only occasionally play this way and they ALWAYS suck in the first 10 minutes of every game.

I was saying this two years ago and I'm saying it again: There is some sort of leadership problem with Edmonton. Of course, I'm speculating, but there's enough evidence now that I'm pretty sure this is a thing. (It's not a coaching problem because three coaches have seen it happen.) They just are not ready to go at puck-drop.

I have to conclude that the core players such as Nurse, Drai, McDavid and Nuge somehow aren't firing up the other guys, or themselves, and aren't ready to go (esp. defensively) at the start of games.

Honestly, if I were Woodcroft now, I think my strategy for the season would be this: First 10 minutes of every game is NO OFFENSE. Like, if you get a breakaway or turn a puck over, sure, go for it. But otherwise, the entire team's purpose for the first 10 minutes of every frickin' game is to NOT GET SCORED ON.

Maybe if they started with this kind of mentality*, they wouldn't be giving up 20 shots every 1st period and be down to start every game.



* If Louie Debrusk says "shooter mentality" one more time, Imma lose my shit

 

[syz]

Barrie was the highest scoring D a couple of years ago, last year the Oilers D was among the top scoring D in the league, Barrie 9th in D scoring this year, not sure your argument holds water.

Now if you are talking about defending....the Oilers team defence needs a ton of work....again.

Barrie's point totals are him getting carried on the PP by the forwards, but regardless it's not like you can have him on the ice with McDavid or Draisaitl at even strength anymore because the quality of competition would be too high for him. Nurse's point totals the last couple of years have been the same story just at even strength. Those numbers are no different than how Puljujarvi and Yamamoto managed to put up 20 goals; McDavid elevates them but they do not do the same. If they did he would be damn near breaking records out there. It was also the biggest reason that the Oilers were out in 4 against Colorado.

Bouchard is the only outlet guy but it's been come and go so far this season as he proves again that progression isn't linear for young D.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Barrie's point totals are him getting carried on the PP by the forwards, but regardless it's not like you can have him on the ice with McDavid or Draisaitl at even strength anymore because the quality of competition would be too high for him. Nurse's point totals the last couple of years have been the same story just at even strength. Those numbers are no different than how Puljujarvi and Yamamoto managed to put up 20 goals; McDavid elevates them but they do not do the same. If they did he would be damn near breaking records out there. It was also the biggest reason that the Oilers were out in 4 against Colorado.

Bouchard is the only outlet guy but it's been come and go so far this season as he proves again that progression isn't linear for young D.

As has been said, PP points count just as much as 5v5 points. Overall Our D are not in the PJ offensive black hole territory.

 

[CupofOil]

Feel free to post evidence (actual, not bias) to the contrary. I’ll wait.


So you have no evidence to the contrary- got it. Just your bias and not actually knowing what’s going on in the game.

Evidence is my eyes and actual, ya know, real numbers. Pulju has been a horrible player this season, drags down every line he's on. Just a complete zero this season. Same with Yamamoto to illustrate that there's no bias here.

I'm outright flabbergasted that anybody can deem Pulju's play acceptable or even good this season. I just don't see any arguments for that, at all, and I consider myself as somebody who tries to see both sides of an argument. These two duds are killing the team this season not just with their play but their salary as well. Janmark and Kostin showed more of a pulse in two games than these guys showed all season, for a 1/3 of the price.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Evidence is my eyes and actual, ya know, real numbers. Pulju has been a horrible player this season, drags down every line he's on. Just a complete zero this season. Same with Yamamoto to illustrate that there's no bias here.

I'm outright flabbergasted that anybody can deem Pulju's play acceptable or even good this season. I just don't see any arguments for that, at all, and I consider myself as somebody who tries to see both sides of an argument. These two duds are killing the team this season not just with their play but their salary as well. Janmark and Kostin showed more of a pulse in two games than these guys showed all season, for a 1/3 of the price.

It's becoming more and more clear that the Oilers are not going to go anywhere with these two offensive black holes on this team Maybe if they only made ~$1 mil like last year it would be fine. But $3 mil is way too much.

Our first priority should be trying to offload these two for cap space and acquiring another top 4 defender. Once that's accomplished we should target a complementary winger who can actually be a useful 3rd piece on a Drai/Kane line.

There really isn't any excuse this can't get done this year. Just fill the damn holes already. McDavid and Draisaitl have shouldered far too much of the burden for far too long.

 

[foshizzle]

I have to laugh at the analytics junkies, such garbage stats. He has one goal, he sucks, plain and simple. He called for a pass last night and couldn’t even control it when it came. Let me know when he takes the puck to the net ffs.

So you have nothing and clearly don’t understand analytics, lol. I’ll dumb it down for you- they are a reflection of your performance. You create a high danger chance, shot, etc- you get a tick. It’s not difficult…you have what’s known as confirmation bias. You’re looking for stuff that confirms you’re already made up mind about him. Whatever, you do you

 

[foshizzle]

Haha what am I reading. In case your confused...real world results > excel sheet numbers when it comes to "evidence."

First line time needs to equal production. Otherwise he can go back to the 3rd line.

Again, you have zero clue what analytics measure. Are you saying high danger chances created, shots created, goals for and against aren’t real stats? Are you saying that the last 2 years Jesse being a 20 goal player (his pace of he played the full 82 games) aren’t real world? Are you saying Jesse scoring just 6 less ES points than Hyman last year had they played an equal number of games aren’t real world stats? Just say you hate the player because you hate him- don’t pretend it’s actually based on anything

 

[foshizzle]

He has produced nothing of tangible value this season despite playing with top 6 players over 2/3rds of his ice time who have produced tangible results.

Go look at the real stats. There’s your evidence. Real production outweighs expected 100% of the time.

Also eyeballs and knowledge still have a place in a spreadsheet World. I don’t track how many Kills play dead / 60 he has playing with top 6 players but I imagine it’s right up there.

Wow, your real world stats say he’s played top line for 2/3 of the season? Interesting. Eyeballs and knowledge absolutely have a place. No doubt. What you are talking about is no knowledge and counting numbers. You are missing half of what’s going on. Hell, even the Winnipeg colour guys said he was. Beast at forcing turnovers and pressuring the defence. Rob Schremp even highlighted one of McDavid’s goals last year saying it wouldn’t have happened if JP didn’t force the turnover and then took out a defensemen. But your eyeballs would have said he did nothing because you have already formulated your bias. Like I said to the other poster- you do you. I’m not going to other replying to you any further on this.

Evidence is my eyes and actual, ya know, real numbers. Pulju has been a horrible player this season, drags down every line he's on. Just a complete zero this season. Same with Yamamoto to illustrate that there's no bias here.

I'm outright flabbergasted that anybody can deem Pulju's play acceptable or even good this season. I just don't see any arguments for that, at all, and I consider myself as somebody who tries to see both sides of an argument. These two duds are killing the team this season not just with their play but their salary as well. Janmark and Kostin showed more of a pulse in two games than these guys showed all season, for a 1/3 of the price.

Your eyes are the evidence…lol. Please tell me you have never served on a jury. Are shots for and against real world? How about high danger chances for and against? You’re eyeballs telling you he brings down every line he is on is completely false. “Real” stats show you this. Lol- but yeah- your eyeballs

 

[Sra1974]

Wow, your real world stats say he’s played top line for 2/3 of the season? Interesting. Eyeballs and knowledge absolutely have a place. No doubt. What you are talking about is no knowledge and counting numbers. You are missing half of what’s going on. Hell, even the Winnipeg colour guys said he was. Beast at forcing turnovers and pressuring the defence. Rob Schremp even highlighted one of McDavid’s goals last year saying it wouldn’t have happened if JP didn’t force the turnover and then took out a defensemen. But your eyeballs would have said he did nothing because you have already formulated your bias. Like I said to the other poster- you do you. I’m not going to other replying to you any further on this.


Your eyes are the evidence…lol. Please tell me you have never served on a jury. Are shots for and against real world? How about high danger chances for and against? You’re eyeballs telling you he brings down every line he is on is completely false. “Real” stats show you this. Lol- but yeah- your eyeballs

I don’t think one should just throw analytics out, but one also shouldn’t just use them without also seeing if it matches what is actually going on. There‘s a chance some players are anomalies and this kid seems like one of them.

17 games played.
1 goal.
2 assists.
-7.

Projecting out to what 5 goals, 10 assists? That is terrible, whether he’s in on any of the top 3 lines and I’m really not seeing how he’s impacting the games in a positive way. He’s not costing the team games single handedly, that’s on the team, but I see zero evidence he’s contributing positively to outcomes. He’s not the only one, Unfortunately as Yamamoto joins him in this same club and that’s a fairly big problem.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Gee thats about 12M bucks. Seems like we could get some real players for that kind of coin. Skinner is serving to make the Campbell hire seem perhaps not required. Or for how much we paid. I'm still backing Campbell, but not at pricepoint. Take out deadwood do nothing contracts like Shore as well and it seems to me that we could have had enough to sign a back up, A D and one or two reasonable forwards. How hard would it be obtain better forwards. I mean Kostin alone is better. I'd stand by that.

Ryan Murray?? Haha He's the answer to what question? More wasted money.

It’s almost like the GM has no clue what he’s doing…

 

[CupofOil]

Your eyes are the evidence…lol. Please tell me you have never served on a jury. Are shots for and against real world? How about high danger chances for and against? You’re eyeballs telling you he brings down every line he is on is completely false. “Real” stats show you this. Lol- but yeah- your eyeballs

This must be satire because I have a hard time believing that you even believe what you're saying right now. and then you attack anybody who dare questions that Puljujarvi hasn't been good this season. I mean, really? Is this such a controversial stance?

Ok, forget the eye test because that's subjective and apparently you've seem him as playing well this season so I can't convince you otherwise. Lets just look at numbers. $3M for 1 goal, 3 points in 17 games and a -7. That's f***ing awful no matter how one spins it. He's a drag on the salary cap right now. For all the high danger chances he's apparently creating and suppressing, he's a major net negative player this season who doesn't piss a drop of offense.