Post-Game Talk: Paging Oranje Wood

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Wow, your real world stats say he’s played top line for 2/3 of the season? Interesting. Eyeballs and knowledge absolutely have a place. No doubt. What you are talking about is no knowledge and counting numbers. You are missing half of what’s going on. Hell, even the Winnipeg colour guys said he was. Beast at forcing turnovers and pressuring the defence. Rob Schremp even highlighted one of McDavid’s goals last year saying it wouldn’t have happened if JP didn’t force the turnover and then took out a defensemen. But your eyeballs would have said he did nothing because you have already formulated your bias. Like I said to the other poster- you do you. I’m not going to other replying to you any further on this.


Your eyes are the evidence…lol. Please tell me you have never served on a jury. Are shots for and against real world? How about high danger chances for and against? You’re eyeballs telling you he brings down every line he is on is completely false. “Real” stats show you this. Lol- but yeah- your eyeballs

Dobber Hockey tracks the players and lines he’s played with. Not my stat. Argue with them.

You’re also quoting Winnipeg color guys and Schremp from last season? Yesterdays home runs don’t win todays ball games.

Sure he makes the odd good play and has the odd good shift but that’s it. As for forcing turnovers that’s canceled out by plays he kills and his ineffectiveness offensively.

He simply is not a top 6 player.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

So you have nothing and clearly don’t understand analytics, lol. I’ll dumb it down for you- they are a reflection of your performance. You create a high danger chance, shot, etc- you get a tick. It’s not difficult…you have what’s known as confirmation bias. You’re looking for stuff that confirms you’re already made up mind about him. Whatever, you do you

he sucks cause he can't produce...end of story

no one gives a shit about "high danger chances" if those chances don't turn into goals

 

[K1984]

I feel like Woody would be smart to change the system to have more of a focus on carry-outs.

That's Nurse's #1 strength. Kulak is great at it. Broberg would probably do better with it whenever he gets here. Even a guy like Ceci seems to do better carrying the puck rather than trying to outlet it.

In general if the Oilers skated with the puck more as a team I think it would help us.

We absolutely suck at passing as a group, not because of a skills deficit, but a brain deficit. Way, way too many low% passes that just really aren't necessary.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I feel like Woody would be smart to change the system to have more of a focus on carry-outs.

That's Nurse's #1 strength. Kulak is great at it. Broberg would probably do better with it whenever he gets here. Even a guy like Ceci seems to do better carrying the puck rather than trying to outlet it.

Carry outs are easy to counter. You need to pass the puck at some point and the further up the ice you are the less real estate you have to do it especially when your working against a solid 1-3-1 like LA had. You're asking for deadly neutral zone turnovers. And when you have McDavid on your team you want him coming out with the puck at speed. Leon as well, McLeod as well. Speed kills in the NHL, when done the right way.

The forwards have been too disconnected from the D requiring longer passes into coverage and the forwards are disconnected themselves working too far apart without support. Some games Woody has them playing the Dave Tippet long pass, chip and chase game which has been completely ineffective.

What Woody did last year was restore the tight 5 man breakout yet for some reason this year we are back to the Dave Tippet hockey of long passes, no support and chip and chase. Restore the low breakout and come out as a 5 man unit with short crisp passes overloading the defenders and if you have to chip it in at least your attacking the defender with speed and numbers.

 

[Messrules11]

A reflection of performance eh? Where are his stats on puck possession, driving play or even making a f***ing pass. Some question his hockey IQ, I question his actual IQ. Too long of a stick, too small a helmet and for a guy who was looking at the NHL as a profession why didn’t he learn English when he wasn’t younger? Because he’s too f***ing stupid that’s why.

 

[frag2]

This must be satire because I have a hard time believing that you even believe what you're saying right now. and then you attack anybody who dare questions that Puljujarvi hasn't been good this season. I mean, really? Is this such a controversial stance?

Ok, forget the eye test because that's subjective and apparently you've seem him as playing well this season so I can't convince you otherwise. Lets just look at numbers. $3M for 1 goal, 3 points in 17 games and a -7. That's f***ing awful no matter how one spins it. He's a drag on the salary cap right now. For all the high danger chances he's apparently creating and suppressing, he's a major net negative player this season who doesn't piss a drop of offense.

It's unreal the lengths some of JP's fanboys go to rationalize the nothing player. The guy has been abysmal since January. The fact Woodcroft would rather bench him during the playoffs and run a shorter bench without him is telling enough already.

he sucks cause he can't produce...end of story

no one gives a shit about "high danger chances" if those chances don't turn into goals

Bingo.

 

[Stoneman89]

Why would we do that to Holloway confidence? Its very important that he stays in the mix now and starts to see a few good things happen. Almost any time he makes a mistake its a GA or gongshow. Parking him back in the minors right now could lead to confidence issues or self doubt. Let him figure it out, he's too valuable and he's our best prospect forward that we got. I have confidence Holloway will improve, and that he will this season. But he's too good not to be here. Give him more minutes and let him make some more mistakes. Its how he'll learn.

I honestly think he's losing confidence here, especially with the puck and making plays. If they frame it the right way, and tell him going down there will allow him to work on his game, getting more than the 7-8 minutes he gets here, and then he'll be called up, would be the right thing to do. There's been a lot of far better players that have been sent down early in their careers and they managed to be better for it.

 

[McDNicks17]

Carry outs are easy to counter. You need to pass the puck at some point and the further up the ice you are the less real estate you have to do it especially when your working against a solid 1-3-1 like LA had. You're asking for deadly neutral zone turnovers. And when you have McDavid on your team you want him coming out with the puck at speed. Leon as well, McLeod as well. Speed kills in the NHL, when done the right way.

The forwards have been too disconnected from the D requiring longer passes into coverage and the forwards are disconnected themselves working too far apart without support. Some games Woody has them playing the Dave Tippet long pass, chip and chase game which has been completely ineffective.

What Woody did last year was restore the tight 5 man breakout yet for some reason this year we are back to the Dave Tippet hockey of long passes, no support and chip and chase. Restore the low breakout and come out as a 5 man unit with short crisp passes overloading the defenders and if you have to chip it in at least your attacking the defender with speed and numbers.

I don't mean like the primary option, but just as an option.

Seems like our guys just go Read 1, Read 2, Turnover 90% of the time. Feels like they need some kind of Plan C that isn't just throwing pucks away.

I wouldn't be surprised if the defensemen might have more room to skate because teams know that the Oilers want to get the puck to McDavid with speed, like you said.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I don't mean like the primary option, but just as an option.

Seems like our guys just go Read 1, Read 2, Turnover 90% of the time. Feels like they need some kind of Plan C that isn't just throwing pucks away.

I wouldn't be surprised if the defensemen might have more room to skate because teams know that the Oilers want to get the puck to McDavid with speed, like you said.

The D do need to read and react no question. There are options to carry with your low F (usually C) circling back to pick a short pass at speed with wingers in motion, 1 to drive the opponents D back and 1 going across for the quick pass give and go. Oilers have been running this breakout and when it works it’s a thing of beauty.

Just seems lately it’s been more of the long pass and it’s not working.

 

[foshizzle]

I don’t think one should just throw analytics out, but one also shouldn’t just use them without also seeing if it matches what is actually going on. There‘s a chance some players are anomalies and this kid seems like one of them.

17 games played.
1 goal.
2 assists.
-7.

Projecting out to what 5 goals, 10 assists? That is terrible, whether he’s in on any of the top 3 lines and I’m really not seeing how he’s impacting the games in a positive way. He’s not costing the team games single handedly, that’s on the team, but I see zero evidence he’s contributing positively to outcomes. He’s not the only one, Unfortunately as Yamamoto joins him in this same club and that’s a fairly big problem.

He has an incredibly low PDO- that will eventually make it back to median. He is still doing the other things right

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

He has an incredibly low PDO- that will eventually make it back to median. He is still doing the other things right

He can’t even shoot right.

 

[Louis Cypher]

"Step up"? lol, maybe someone else on the team should try stepping up other than the league's no.1 and no.2 scorers for most of the season.

Really the GM of this team needs to step up and make a damn trade instead of letting every situation come down to the wire. Exactly what would Holland have done last year if Kane didn't fall into his lap? Trade for Kulak and go back to sleep?

Fall into his lap? Sure whatever fits your narrative.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Im having a hard time see Yamamoto and puljujärvi turn it around to legit top6er, esp. Here.

They need to be tradef while thry still have any value left. Holland is known for habding out better contracts to experied playets than youngsterd. Still he hands out 3 millions multiyear deal tp yamamoto who has clearly struggöed every year except the first.
Clear out those players, get two new ones. A D and a RW. Kostin covers on RW top6 spot.
Like, do that trade niw Holland.
Gavrikov is on the table.
Make pulju + M.Petrov for Gavrikov.
And then yamamoto + 1st for a top flight RW.

Like. Now. Now!

Not sure how much lower their value is than right now. Better to wait it out unless you can trade for another similar player. But there are risks in that the player you trade for fails. You aren't getting a clutch $6million a year player for 2 underperforming $3M players.

 

[Sra1974]

He has an incredibly low PDO- that will eventually make it back to median. He is still doing the other things right

When? He’s never shown himself to be an effective shooter has he? He doesn’t put himself in the right spot often to cash in on goals. Maybe his pdo is low for a reason.

Look I really like this kid, and want him to succeed but it’s tough to see the path forward where he’s not a negative drag on the team given his cap hit.

 

[Whyme]

I don't know if fans see it as a problem, but I don't think McDrai is dragging the team as many here say. On PP obviously yes, but a part of the problem is the two leading players aren't really clear net positives on even strength. I think there's work to be done for Woodcroft, but is he too nice for that kind of things?