Speculation: Over CAP teams discussion

[McSuper]

Feels like the only team that needs to worry is Tampa Bay. Even for them they can move Killorn and easily be under the cap it’s more a matter of getting their RFA’s signed.

Arizona - LTIR Hossa

Vancouver - LTIR Ferland or waive 2 players if he’s healthy.

St. Louis - LTIR Steen

Washington - LTIR Lundqvist

Vegas - LTIR Lehner and waive one player once he’s healthy.

Anaheim - LTIR Kesler

Winnipeg - LTIR Little

Edmonton - LTIR Klembolm

New York Islanders - LTIR Boychuk

Who the hell is Klembolm ? Edmonton has no such player .

 

[MBH]

Detroit needed to know they could land an okay defenseman in Staal to help for planning what they did in FA. They didn't blow anything. Rangers got a cheap price by going first... but the Wings actually have a need for the dump piece they are taking too. A lot of the panic moves that might happen prior to the season are going to be "This is highly discounted, let's jump on it".

You think the Wings needed Staal?

 

[Legion34]

Who the hell is Klembolm ? Edmonton has no such player .

they don’t have a klefbom either for this year right?

 

[McSuper]

they don’t have a klefbom either for this year right?

Correct . With his issues they may never have him again . If he comes back he will likely be a shell of his former self

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

You think the Wings needed Staal?

They needed some kind of veteran NHL D presence on their blueline, yes. I know it's sacrilege to want a bad NHL player when you could give minutes to a guy in his early 20s... but the Wings lost about half of their D core depth. It was bad depth, to be sure, but you need players who can give you any sense of stability.

Did they specifically need Marc Staal? No.

They did, however, need a defenseman with some kind of experience.

 

[Legion34]

Correct . With his issues they may never have him again . If he comes back he will likely be a shell of his former self

oh man it’s that bad? I watched the play ins but not enough to focus in on him directly.

that’s a huge loss. Top pairing D on a good contract.

ugh.

 

[MBH]

They needed some kind of veteran NHL D presence on their blueline, yes. I know it's sacrilege to want a bad NHL player when you could give minutes to a guy in his early 20s... but the Wings lost about half of their D core depth. It was bad depth, to be sure, but you need players who can give you any sense of stability.

Did they specifically need Marc Staal? No.

They did, however, need a defenseman with some kind of experience.

But we didn't need Staal.
We could have replaced Ericsson or Daley with Andy Greene.
As it is, we went out and got Merill and Stecher.
My guess is Merill and Stecher alone.

I definitely don't think that getting a 2nd in the Staal deal was a great coup.
It's not like we got screwed or anything.
But I think it's worth considering if patience might have helped us.
The obvious flipside is, if you wait too long and hold a team like the Rangers over the barrel, a team like the Kings might come in and take the contract for less.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

But we didn't need Staal.
We could have replaced Ericsson or Daley with Andy Greene.
As it is, we went out and got Merill and Stecher.
My guess is Merill and Stecher alone.

I definitely don't think that getting a 2nd in the Staal deal was a great coup.
It's not like we got screwed or anything.
But I think it's worth considering if patience might have helped us.
The obvious flipside is, if you wait too long and hold a team like the Rangers over the barrel, a team like the Kings might come in and take the contract for less.

You are saying literally what I just said. They didn't NEED Marc Staal specifically. They did NEED an experienced D (Andy Greene is your choice). They did that before FA, so they knew that getting guys like Stetcher and Merrill would suffice for what they want. NYR traded him prior to FA so they could have a clear picture of what money they'd have available.

They got Marc Staal and a 2nd vs just signing Andy Greene + nothing

We wanted to get a pick and we wanted to get a defenseman who will help us actually attempt to not be a drum waiting for other teams to beat us.

Per Yzerman immediately after the trade.
"The trade accomplishes a couple of things," Yzerman said on a video conference call on Saturday night. "As part of our rebuilding process, we're trying to add draft picks, prospects, young players and future assets to really help us down the line.
"In this trade, we get a second-round pick in the 2021 draft but we also have to ice a team and be competitive at the same time. Not only do we get a defenseman that will go right into our lineup and plug a huge hole for us, we add future assets as well."

It's entirely possible that if we wait and we try to do the same Staal trade? We get less than that second, not more. Because NYR aren't in a dire Tampa sized cap crunch.

 

[MBH]

You are saying literally what I just said. They didn't NEED Marc Staal specifically. They did NEED an experienced D (Andy Greene is your choice). They did that before FA, so they knew that getting guys like Stetcher and Merrill would suffice for what they want. NYR traded him prior to FA so they could have a clear picture of what money they'd have available.

They got Marc Staal and a 2nd vs just signing Andy Greene + nothing

We wanted to get a pick and we wanted to get a defenseman who will help us actually attempt to not be a drum waiting for other teams to beat us.

Per Yzerman immediately after the trade.
"The trade accomplishes a couple of things," Yzerman said on a video conference call on Saturday night. "As part of our rebuilding process, we're trying to add draft picks, prospects, young players and future assets to really help us down the line.
"In this trade, we get a second-round pick in the 2021 draft but we also have to ice a team and be competitive at the same time. Not only do we get a defenseman that will go right into our lineup and plug a huge hole for us, we add future assets as well."

It's entirely possible that if we wait and we try to do the same Staal trade? We get less than that second, not more. Because NYR aren't in a dire Tampa sized cap crunch.

I don't think there's any way of really knowing.

I definitely don't think a 2nd for Staal is some great work of art. I would have wanted more.
But if that's the market, so be it.

That's why I take TJ for a first.
I want that first. I don't think we hold Tampa over the barrel and ask for a 2nd and a prospect too. Seems like a fantasy, to me. Especially considering TJ immediately becomes the Wings 2C.
That 25-31 pick could have netted us a good prospect in the most recent draft.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Who the hell is Klembolm ? Edmonton has no such player .

OMG. A misspelling !!!

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't think there's any way of really knowing.

I definitely don't think a 2nd for Staal is some great work of art. I would have wanted more.
But if that's the market, so be it.

That's why I take TJ for a first.
I want that first. I don't think we hold Tampa over the barrel and ask for a 2nd and a prospect too. Seems like a fantasy, to me. Especially considering TJ immediately becomes the Wings 2C.
That 25-31 pick could have netted us a good prospect in the most recent draft.

See, this is where I disagree. Tampa is in crisis mode. They're over the cap with two RFAs they really want to sign who have no reason to take a big discount (as Sergachev, their third RFA they had wanted to sign, didn't). Tampa is completely over a barrel. They can finagle it if they buyout Johnson and make a couple other moves, find a way to trade a guy like Gourde, Killorn, or Palat, and/or other drastic steps. They're in very hot water with the cap.

NYR were never in this dire a situation. Tampa is over a barrel now like Chicago was when they had to deal away Ladd, Big Buff, and others for pennies on the dollar. You're vastly shortchanging yourself and hurting yourself if you don't attempt to extract as much value as possible from the negotiation. You don't try to hold out for something completely stupid like trying to get Sergachev or whatever... but TJ + 1st for future considerations is just an abysmal deal. What Tyler Johnson would mean to Detroit in terms of being their 2C has nothing to do Tampa should have to pay. Carolina got #13OA (it had conditional top 10 protection) for 1 year of Patrick Marleau at 6M. Why on earth are you okay with #25 at best for four years of Tyler Johnson at 5M?

Wings have the leverage in this deal as all of Tampa's other options are incredibly unattractive.

 

[Leafs87]

We will see some more cases of Hossariasis and Lundqvistiosis before the season starts.

Especially in the hot cities like Tampa, Phoenix and Vegas.

No idea how you could group Hossa and Lundqvist together.....

 

[Dr Quincy]

You are saying literally what I just said. They didn't NEED Marc Staal specifically. They did NEED an experienced D (Andy Greene is your choice). They did that before FA, so they knew that getting guys like Stetcher and Merrill would suffice for what they want. NYR traded him prior to FA so they could have a clear picture of what money they'd have available.

They got Marc Staal and a 2nd vs just signing Andy Greene + nothing

We wanted to get a pick and we wanted to get a defenseman who will help us actually attempt to not be a drum waiting for other teams to beat us.

Per Yzerman immediately after the trade.
"The trade accomplishes a couple of things," Yzerman said on a video conference call on Saturday night. "As part of our rebuilding process, we're trying to add draft picks, prospects, young players and future assets to really help us down the line.
"In this trade, we get a second-round pick in the 2021 draft but we also have to ice a team and be competitive at the same time. Not only do we get a defenseman that will go right into our lineup and plug a huge hole for us, we add future assets as well."

It's entirely possible that if we wait and we try to do the same Staal trade? We get less than that second, not more. Because NYR aren't in a dire Tampa sized cap crunch.

If you are trying to be competitive the worst thing you can do is put Marc Staal on the ice.

 

[treple13]

No idea how you could group Hossa and Lundqvist together.....

I mean why not? Both were unexpected LTIRs to their teams. Grouping them isn't the problem. Assuming a team can just easily get a player to have a health condition that puts them on LTIR is the problem.

 

[Dr Robot]

Even with LTIR, most teams can't even make a medium sized move. Some of the teams that do have cap space this year have RFA to pay next year (ottawa). The only ones i can see taking on any salary are Detroit and NJ and I'm pretty sure they know it. It's going to be ugly this year and maybe even more so next year.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I figure Killorn gets waived and claimed by Detroit. Not sure who Johnson gets traded to, but I don't think the price will be a 1st with the expansion draft looming. Probably a 2nd or 3rd, with maybe some salary coming back.

 

[the Chad Kilger]

I figure Killorn gets waived and claimed by Detroit. Not sure who Johnson gets traded to, but I don't think the price will be a 1st with the expansion draft looming. Probably a 2nd or 3rd, with maybe some salary coming back.

no one is giving assets for TyJo. every team passed on him for free. tb is adding a 1st + to unload him

 

[zcaptain]

Vancouver's good

Ferland on LTIR...….3.5 Million

Eriksson, Baertschi, and Benn to the Taxi Squad or Utica ……...1.1 X 3 = 3.3 Million
(preferably Taxi squad)

I actually think we sign a RHD

 

[mouser]

Vancouver's good

Ferland on LTIR...….3.5 Million

Eriksson, Baertschi, and Benn to the Taxi Squad or Utica ……...1.4 X 3 = 4.2 Million
(preferably Taxi squad)

I actually think we sign a RHD

Where are you getting $1.4m per contract from?

 

[mikeyfan]

Question. This time of year there is a trade freeze. Is that still ongoing this year.
Thanks for the responses

 

[Forge]

Where are you getting $1.4m per contract from?

he's referring to the savings on each by having them on the taxi / ahl I'm pretty sure

 

[mouser]

Question. This time of year there is a trade freeze. Is that still ongoing this year.
Thanks for the responses

The NHL and PA are still working by the default rules until a new 2020-21 season agreement is reached. So I would assume the holiday roster freeze trade rules are in effect now.

Though there is a weird CBA wrinkle here that teams do not currently have Active Rosters since the Regular Season has not started. The freeze rules all revolve around players on the team roster and slots like IR.

 

[Ishad]

he's referring to the savings on each by having them on the taxi / ahl I'm pretty sure

The savings isn’t 1.4 it’s 1.075

 

[mouser]

he's referring to the savings on each by having them on the taxi / ahl I'm pretty sure

I’m guessing that as well. The AHL number isn’t $1.4m though. It’s currently $1.075m.

 

[Forge]

The savings isn’t 1.4 it’s 1.075

That dude is going to be disappointed by the actual cap savings then lol