Post-Game Talk (GBU): Outcoached

[mikemcburn]

The second goal was off a PK--Mitchell came out of the box and was the other guy with Ennis on the 2-on-1. Can't credit the line with that. At least they play together on the PP, so they can get credit for the first one.

Good flag, thanks. Stafford out of the d-zone to Mitchell, tape pass, Ennis patience, tight inside over shoulder shot. Think someone mentioned Gorges being a key on the play too, but I didn't catch that far back?

During the GDT I was actually flagging the Ennis-Stafford duet for the clicking, suggesting Moulson might be an unnecessary piece of their puzzle? Not seeing how he's useful to them anyway.

 

[slip]

Because I like when life is hard and there is little joy.

 

[joshjull]

Does this affect Murray's decision then? How can you keep your 2nd overall pick up when you know he's getting less than 10 minutes per game, with poor quality linemates.

Because you think thats better than going back to juniors.

And who would be quality linemates at this point? Not being snarky just curious who you want to see with him. I thought Des/Reinhart/McCormick were pretty effective and were playing well together. Hodgson in theory is an upgrade but in reality made the line worse.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Because I like when life is hard and there is little joy.

Awesome

 

[omglolnub]

Because I like when life is hard and there is little joy.

Is that life in buffalo in general?

 

[mikemcburn]

Does this affect Murray's decision then? How can you keep your 2nd overall pick up when you know he's getting less than 10 minutes per game, with poor quality linemates.

Good point. Of course.

Don't figure either coach or gm is making a decision in isolation from each other.

Listening to the Nolan and Murray interviews today, as well as assorted commentary from WGR's hosts, seemed pretty clear that the official pre-game line was that a decision on Reinhart's future hadn't been made but would be sometime soon after (naturally).

With Reinhart's pretty consistent 4th line spot 'n minutes, no special teams to speak of, and then only 7:45mins TOI in possibly his last opportunity to "show case", it's hard to imagine Nolan sees much room for the kid in an offensive role?

So, unless he wants Reinhart in a 4th line role and Murray agrees that's a good allocation for year one of the kid's ETL, I'd guess he's gone soon...

 

[sabrebuild]

I don't get it. He's right. The decision is murrays alone.

Mickie doesn't like it that jame comments on his posts with anything but the nicest of compliments.

 

[ZZamboni]

G- 70 to go

 

[Tapu Coco]

G:
-Enroth
-I thought Mitchell was pretty good tonight
-Ennis/Stafford with a nice bounceback game
-Effort was better
-Reinhart
-Stewart's fight

B:
-Everyone else was invisible/underwhelming, including girgs
-Bounces on Boston's first 2 goals

U:
-3rd period

-Gionta. Good lord, he's not even NHL caliber anymore, let alone a shell of his former self.

-15 shots. You're not gonna win games if you don't shoot the puck. Even if we did pull off a 2-1 win, it wouldn't feel like a win to me knowing we got heavily outplayed.

-Nolan. I'm in the group of those that want to see the sabres win but know that losing is better for them in the long run (as hard as it is to put up with), and as a fan...I've had it up to here with how he's been handling our players. I understand that he's a transitional coach and not the long-term solution, but it's 10 games in and I've had enough of his infatuation with underachieving veterans (I'm looking at you, Gionta). Reinhart made smart plays all game, save for his pass back to the defenseman (might've been weber, don't remember) in front of the net while there was a guy right on the recipient, yet he gets no ice time. What about Zadorov? I'm sick of seeing him in limbo and getting miniscule minutes on the rare occasions that he does draw into the lineup, he's better than Bad-oit or Mess-zaros. I also can't stand how he jumbles lines every game. I understand that it's been hard to find combinations that work, but if you really want to light a fire under this team, scratch the underachievers (Gionta, Hodgson, Moulson, Benoit, Mez, Foligno) to get them going and inject players from rochester that can maybe provide some sort of spark (Grigs, larsson, pysyk, ruhwedel, armia). They look good. They're getting closer to, if not already, NHL ready. If you want to jumble the lines so much, call them up and jumble away with them.

At this point, I just want to see some development so i can take some positives out of this season from a fan's perspective rather than an armchair GM's. This roster is built for tanking, yes, and I know what's best for the team in the long run. Maybe I just need to vent. I don't know.

-Possession. I tend to ignore the big debates in the roster speculation thread, but after seeing tonight's game, I have to agree with Jame. This team is not built for puck possession at all, which is the main factor in the tangible portrayal of how bad we are IMO. It's for the best...but it's frustrating to watch

 

[Bps21*]

Speaking of coaching...im on my phone...someone grab the graph and numbers for Reinhart/draisaitl off of Matthew collers twitter and post them here. Also ristolainen tweet.

 

[Beerz]

Speaking of coaching...im on my phone...someone grab the graph and numbers for Reinhart/draisaitl off of Matthew collers twitter and post them here. Also ristolainen tweet.

Couldn't get the charts ...he has them protected.

Matthew Coller @MatthewWGR · 30m 30 minutes ago

Sam Reinhart has an offensive zone start % of 36.8%? What the hell?

Matthew Coller @MatthewWGR · 22m 22 minutes ago

Leon Draisaitl has a 76% Ozone start percentage

Matthew Coller @MatthewWGR · 26m 26 minutes ago

Weber is over 50% Ozone and Ristolainen (19 years old) is at 38%, lowest among D. I mean, small sample, but what?

 

[joshjull]

G:
-Enroth
-I thought Mitchell was pretty good tonight
-Ennis/Stafford with a nice bounceback game
-Effort was better
-Reinhart
-Stewart's fight

B:
-Everyone else was invisible/underwhelming, including girgs
-Bounces on Boston's first 2 goals

U:
-3rd period

-Gionta. Good lord, he's not even NHL caliber anymore, let alone a shell of his former self.

-15 shots. You're not gonna win games if you don't shoot the puck. Even if we did pull off a 2-1 win, it wouldn't feel like a win to me knowing we got heavily outplayed.

-Nolan. I'm in the group of those that want to see the sabres win but know that losing is better for them in the long run (as hard as it is to put up with), and as a fan...I've had it up to here with how he's been handling our players. I understand that he's a transitional coach and not the long-term solution, but it's 10 games in and I've had enough of his infatuation with underachieving veterans (I'm looking at you, Gionta). Reinhart made smart plays all game, save for his pass back to the defenseman (might've been weber, don't remember) in front of the net while there was a guy right on the recipient, yet he gets no ice time. What about Zadorov? I'm sick of seeing him in limbo and getting miniscule minutes on the rare occasions that he does draw into the lineup, he's better than Bad-oit or Mess-zaros. I also can't stand how he jumbles lines every game. I understand that it's been hard to find combinations that work, but if you really want to light a fire under this team, scratch the underachievers (Gionta, Hodgson, Moulson, Benoit, Mez, Foligno) to get them going and inject players from rochester that can maybe provide some sort of spark (Grigs, larsson, pysyk, ruhwedel, armia). They look good. They're getting closer to, if not already, NHL ready. If you want to jumble the lines so much, call them up and jumble away with them.

At this point, I just want to see some development so i can take some positives out of this season from a fan's perspective rather than an armchair GM's. This roster is built for tanking, yes, and I know what's best for the team in the long run. Maybe I just need to vent. I don't know.

-Possession. I tend to ignore the big debates in the roster speculation thread, but after seeing tonight's game, I have to agree with Jame. This team is not built for puck possession at all, which is the main factor in the tangible portrayal of how bad we are IMO. It's for the best...but it's frustrating to watch

There is plenty of it. The guys on the NHL roster that will matter done the road; Myers, Girgs and Risto have all showed positives in their game. On the AHL roster Grigs, Armia, Larsson, Carrier, Pysyk, McCabe and Rudy have all played well and have progressed in varying degrees in their development. In juniors Bailey has emerged and Baptsiste will helpfully tear it up again now that he is back from injury, Fasching has been great at Minnesota, etc.

I know this sucks right now on the NHL level. But I see little point in bringing up the AHLers just to make our NHL games more entertaining or more accurately to make them more bearable. But I readily admit I've felt this way a few times myself.


EDIT: I went to the Amerks game Wed and it was nice to see the future play live.

 

[Tapu Coco]

There is plenty of it. The guys on the NHL roster that will matter done the road; Myers, Girgs and Risto have all showed positives in their game. On the AHL roster Grigs, Armia, Larsson, Carrier, Pysyk, McCabe and Rudy have all played well and have progressed in varying degrees in their development. In juniors Bailey has emerged and Baptsiste will helpfully tear it up again this year now that he is back from injury, Fasching has been great at Minnesota, etc.

I know this sucks right now on the NHL level. But I see little point in bringing up the AHLers just to make our NHL games more entertaining or more accurately to make them more bearable. But I readily admit I've felt this way a few times myself.

I just meant at the NHL level, yeah, since that's all that's really accessible to me. I won't deny outside development. I just feel like there should be more "players that matter" playing with the big club right now for greater developmental strides (or for my own selfish purposes ), and ultimately that's on Nolan

I was at the Amerks game too, so I'm right there with you. I suppose that viewing is what I'm basing this on, small sample size and all. It was nice to see competent hockey live, wasn't it?

 

[joshjull]

I just meant at the NHL level, yeah, since that's all that's really accessible to me. I won't deny outside development. I just feel like there should be more "players that matter" playing with the big club right now for greater developmental strides (or for my own selfish purposes ), a[B]nd ultimately that's on Nolan[/B]

Thats not the case at all. Murray decides where these guys play not Nolan.

 

[Fly Boy]

I haven't seen Gionta do a single positive thing the entire season. Really can't understand why he got that 3rd year.

 

[Tapu Coco]

Thats not the case at all. Murray decides where these guys play not Nolan.

Murray directs training camp cuts? Not the coach?

In any event, looking at the amount of playing time players like reinhart and Zadorov have gotten so far, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that other young players, except Pysyk (and maybe Nolan would like Larsson's playing style) would receive similar treatment. If Murray does control who plays where, he certainly can't control how much they play once there.

 

[joshjull]

Murray directs training camp cuts? Not the coach?

Yes Murray does. Particularly when it comes to the youngsters and where they should be playing thats best for their development. This should be well known at this point.

In any event, looking at the amount of playing time players like reinhart and Zadorov have gotten so far, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that other young players, except Pysyk (and maybe Nolan would like Larsson's playing style) would receive similar treatment. If Murray does control who plays where, he certainly can't control how much they play once there.

Not only is it unreasonable its uninformed. Among forwards only Ennis gets more ice time than Girgs and Risto has been on our 2nd pairing for the last 3 games averaging 18min.

The problem here is you think Nolan is the one that sent the young guys to where they are right now. He's not. You also think the "treatment" that Reinhart and Zadorov are getting is indicative of how any other young player will be treated. Thats not the case as evidenced by Girgs/Risto.

Reinhart is getting the ice time he is because he is an 18 year kid they are being over protective with. Thats unique to him. Zadorov hasn't been playing because he didn't make the team. Let me repeat that because this fact seems lost on many. Zadorov did not make the team and the Sabres had every intention of sending him back to the OHL after the AHL option was shut down. The only reason he is here is due to his agents making a power play by using the KHL card. In that context, it shouldn't be all that shocking he hasn't played. I went off about this in the Zadorov thread. Think of how well this must be going over with management as well as the other young dmen. That he is holding onto a roster spot based on a threat not by earning a spot. And lets be clear, every young dman was deemed better off starting elsewhere for their development except Risto. And that decision had nothing to do with whether or not they were better than Benoit, the Mess, Weber or Strachan. If that was the only measure then Pysyk, McCabe and Rudy would all be up here. Those young dmen I might add are further along developmentally than Zads and better options at this point (Rudy is debatable).

 

[wunderpanda]

G- Ennis energy mode again
- team looked better after Nolan yelled at then for Toronto effort
-Enroth had another good game
-Gorges is a shot blocking machine

B -Reinhart basically invisible, he needs to do more during his opportunities or he won't be able to earn more ice time

-Weber was a bonehead again

U- Hodgson is actually worse than he used to be, time to send him to Rochester

 

[SundherDome]

I have a serious question. Does anyone expect Lucic to get two games for jumping off the bench on a legal line change to go directly into a fight? It looked almost like what Scott did, almost.

 

[Bps21*]

Boston doesn't get in trouble for anything. He could come off the bench with a shotgun and take out two refs and at most he'd have a phone call hearing.

 

[ZZamboni]

G- Ennis energy mode again
- team looked better after Nolan yelled at then for Toronto effort
-Enroth had another good game
-Gorges is a shot blocking machine

B -Reinhart basically invisible, he needs to do more during his opportunities or he won't be able to earn more ice time

-Weber was a bonehead again

U- Hodgson is actually worse than he used to be, time to send him to Rochester

How was Ennis on that Boston GWG? He was in SOME mode. Certainly not "energy". Hodgson can't go to Roch, by the way

 

[wunderpanda]

How was Ennis on that Boston GWG? He was in SOME mode. Certainly not "energy". Hodgson can't go to Roch, by the way

Ennis was wondering why Stafford was out of position. Pretty sure Hodgson would clear waivers at this point.

 

[mikemcburn]

How was Ennis on that Boston GWG? He was in SOME mode. Certainly not "energy". Hodgson can't go to Roch, by the way

I think it's called exhausted and lost mode? It happens. Sucks.

I didn't watch enough of the game to know if it was mostly to the coach (re: over-playing certain lines at times, trying to line match, etc.) or mostly a player execution issue that got them hemmed into their d-zone. Maybe someone else has an opinion? Any which way, it happens. Think Ennis got distracted, loo, while indicating to the bench to prep for a line-change.

I thought Hodgson was eligible to be moved to the AHL? He'd have to get thru waivers of course, but at this rate he might. Depends what other teams think are the real cause of the rather rapid decline. I would guess Murray tries to trade him before going the waiver route.

And really, I'd like to see him traded. Current situation isn't doing anyone any good. Square peg stuff.

 

[SundherDome]

I'm sorta teetering on sending Risto down. This team is garbage and Rochester looks like all the young talented kids are coming together and playing good hockey. The defense is a little weak at the moment and having a top pairing of Risto and Pysyk is enticing. Slap Strachan into the lineup and use Zads as the 7th so he doesn't bolt to Russia. I'd make the move when Kaleta is healthy to play. Am I the only one who is thinking this?

 

[SundherDome]

Ennis was wondering why Stafford was out of position. Pretty sure Hodgson would clear waivers at this point.

He is 6 Months removed from the second leading scorer on team Canada for the 2014 iihf. I'm positive a team would gladly trade for him. Sit him for a few games with an undisclosed injury and give him a *conditioning stint* to try to fire him up. But this team is actually worst than last years.