Our defense

[Detroit Knights]

I'll take ASP for that trade. Even after seeing Hronek doing well.

vancouver fans are starting to see the hronek problems as we know all too well.

Walman -Seider
Chiarot -Ghost
Edvinsson - Holl

Maybe find a way to get Tanev.

Chiarot and Ghost is a terrible
Pairing

The pairings, if this was our roster should be

walman - seider
ed - chiarot
holl - ghost

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

vancouver fans are starting to see the hronek problems as we know all too well.

 

[Pavels Dog]

How are you defining "top 4D"?

”Legit” Top 4D is the question in OP. Imo that’s someone who can play in the top 4 in most/any circumstance and do a decent job. A guy who can only survive with #4 minutes if he’s deployed perfectly and has a strong partner is not a legit top 4 imo.

 

[jaster]

vancouver fans are starting to see the hronek problems as we know all too well.

What's been going on with Hronek?

 

[Frk It]

”Legit” Top 4D is the question in OP. Imo that’s someone who can play in the top 4 in most/any circumstance and do a decent job. A guy who can only survive with #4 minutes if he’s deployed perfectly and has a strong partner is not a legit top 4 imo.

How do we know Walman wouldn’t do well with another partner when we’ve only really seen him with Seider?

Seider looking 10x better when playing with Walman as opposed to Chiarot doesn’t say something about both those guys?

 

[jaster]

”Legit” Top 4D is the question in OP. Imo that’s someone who can play in the top 4 in most/any circumstance and do a decent job. A guy who can only survive with #4 minutes if he’s deployed perfectly and has a strong partner is not a legit top 4 imo.

Ok. I mean, whatever definition we use is fine, but without agreeing on one, we're going to have people using different definitions given that "legit" is pretty subjective.

Based on your criteria, I say we have 2.

 

[Detroit Knights]

What's been going on with Hronek?

well, from what I've heard and @Petes2424 can chime in since he talked about it in the main boards last week, he is starting to make very dumb mental lapse mistakes (shocker) and while he was recovering from a mistake here and there very well, he is now compiling all the mistakes and ends up making a massive mistake.

He is also not paired with hughes anymore from what I am hearing.

 

[jaster]

well, from what I've heard and @Petes2424 can chime in since he talked about it in the main boards last week, he is starting to make very dumb mental lapse mistakes (shocker) and while he was recovering from a mistake here and there very well, he is now compiling all the mistakes and ends up making a massive mistake.

He is also not paired with hughes anymore from what I am hearing.

Guys go through stretches, overall he's been excellent for a year and a half now. If he had some poor play recently, I doubt it's anything more than a rough stretch, or just a blip.

He was still playing with Hughes the other night when I saw him.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Guys go through stretches, overall he's been excellent for a year and a half now. If he had some poor play recently, I doubt it's anything more than a rough stretch, or just a blip.

He was still playing with Hughes the other night when I saw him.

well, as @norrisnick has pointed out, hronek's first 25 games last year and this year were damn near identical and that is when he stopped being very offensive and was not good playing defense. While not being the puck moving d-man he probably thinks or has been told he is.

I've told that main boards trade thread for them all to relax with their love until about mid january and see if he is still that #2 and they have been awfully quite the past week. Before, they would post something awesome he did every day, but man has it been quiet in there.

 

[RRhoads]

I don't think the defensemen are that bad. They need support from the guys up front. The odd man rushes against is the biggest issue defensively right now.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

What about defensive forwards since we're talking about defense here? I feel that's part of our problem. Not enough good 2 way defensive forwards on this team imo.

No doubt. The plus defenders on our team are our 3 natural centers plus Moose and Copp, who is probably our best PKer. That’s the reason I’m more hesitant to just ship Copp out. Our wingers mostly suck ass defensively.

How are you defining "top 4D"?

Good question. Can only speak for myself: a player that can handle opposing scoring lines at even strength. Looking solid on the occasional top line assignment and being very competent vs opponents second lines. That’s why I don’t consider Ghost top4, he’s a 3rd pair + PP specialist to me.

 

[heyfolks]

Moritz Seider Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Moritz Seider. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Seider is trending the right way even as he moves into playing the #1 D'man against all the top lines.

Walman is a top 4 d'man.

After that, let the debate begin.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Moritz Seider Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Moritz Seider. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Seider is trending the right way even as he moves into playing the #1 D'man against all the top lines.

Walman is a top 4 d'man.

After that, let the debate begin.

How many teams is Ghost worse than a 2nd pair pp1 guy?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Great point. VGK has 4+ I think. Maybe NYI has 4. After that it gets pretty thin. Even BOS only has 3 + a pp specialist.

Huh? Lindholm and McAvoy are both top pairing D, then Grzelcyk, Carlo, and Lohrei are definitely top 4 level.

Our D is really bad and is mostly washed up vets.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Huh? Lindholm and McAvoy are both top pairing D, then Grzelcyk, Carlo, and Lohrei are definitely top 4 level.

Our D is really bad and is mostly washed up vets.

Disagreeeeee^^ we prob got differing definitions. Grzelcyk is in the same Tier as Ghost for me. Very good offensively, subpar defensively. That’s not a top4 dman to me. And Lohrei certainly has the potential to be top4 one day but has 12 nhl games. Kid needs time. And he’s got a toi of 17min which is 3rd pair minutes anyway.

 

[heyfolks]

How many teams is Ghost worse than a 2nd pair pp1 guy?

How many teams isn't he?

 

[GMR]

Seider needs to play with a defensive minded partner. Chiarot/Walman are just not the right guy for him. Typically teams want a good offensive defenseman to be paired with someone who is more responsible defensively.

 

[Baszie]

 

[kook10]

Seider needs to play with a defensive minded partner. Chiarot/Walman are just not the right guy for him. Typically teams want a good offensive defenseman to be paired with someone who is more responsible defensively.

are we giving up the 2-way defenseman dream?

Edit: I see now your comment is a couple weeks old

 

[HoweFan]

I don’t see our defense getting much better unless there is a change in coaching philosophy. After last year with our dreadful offensive output it seems to me more emphasis was put on scoring. Unfortunately it sacrificed defense. Our forwards aren’t getting back and our defnsemen seem to be pinching at every opportunity. Our dmen are goal hungry. It leaves our already mediocre goaltending out to dry. Just my opinion

 

[Baszie]

Almost as bad as Copp.