Our defense problems

[Hannibal]

Emelin-Gonchar have been solid. Ideally that should be our third pairing. What we really need is someone to play with Subban and someone to play with Markov. Gilbert/Allen/Weaver/Bouillon/Gorges/Beaulieu/Tinordi/Allen are not that. I don't think Markov should be playing with Subban full time. Perhaps Tinordi could be Subbans Komisarek. That still leaves a hole for a top four right handed dman.

Forgot about Gonchar.

My bad!

 

[Habsfan18]

Can someone remind me why J.J. Daigneault has a job as a defensive coach on an NHL! team?

 

[voyageur]

Emelin-Gonchar have been solid. Ideally that should be our third pairing. What we really need is someone to play with Subban and someone to play with Markov. Gilbert/Allen/Weaver/Bouillon/Gorges/Beaulieu/Tinordi/Allen are not that. I don't think Markov should be playing with Subban full time. Perhaps Tinordi could be Subbans Komisarek. That still leaves a hole for a top four right handed dman.

I'm sorry Emelin-Gonchar are not solid, definitely not as solid as Markov-Emelin were down the stretch last year. Elliotte Friedman was right about this defense being not very physical, what is worse is that they are not very mobile either (see Gorges, Bouillon, Beaulieu). By dismantling the defense Bergevin has created a team that no longer transitions well with speed. Next step is to break up the offense. Time to throw DD under the bus again, he didn't actually outplay Patrice Bergeron by a country mile in the playoffs, optical illusion. He's too French anyways. I said when Bergevin got trade happy the team was going to miss the playoffs. Can't build chemistry this way.

 

[rockjngo]

I miss the days where we'd win nearly almost all our games... you wouldn't start these silly threads all the time

i like to tell it as i see. it maybe silly to you but its my honest observation. i see a problem with out defense,

 

[Habssince89]

Comes back to coaching.

Sure, you can go through the list and talk about Emelin, Gilbert, Allen, etc and you wouldn't necessarily be wrong. But it is important to note that the system leaves our D high and dry all the time with no options.

As I've been saying a lot recently: The system makes our players do everything the hard way. Resulting in exhaustion, no margin for error, and low percentage chances

 

[Nicko999]

I notice we are slow footed and defense seems to be running around too much like there's no system in place.

If Gonchar and Markov were 10 years younger, we'll have the best defense in the league. Gonchar and Markov cannot keep up with the speed these days.

Subban is dynamic but he needs a Ryan Mcdonagh as his partner.

Emelin looks lost and cannot make a good first pass.

Weaver and Gilbert shouldn't be on the team.

Allen needs to retire.

Not sure why we traded Josh Gorges and not play Tinordi and Beaulieu. Why play old players who cannot keep up and players who should be in AHL ie Gilbert, Allen, Weaver.

LOL... Markov and Subban are the 2 only reliable D-man we have. That's the problem.

Main problem with this defense is Emelin. He simply doesn't belong in the NHL. Having him play 20 minutes is ridiculous.

Gonchar and Gilbert are fine as #5 and #6. However, we need a #3 and #4 (Weaver is a #5 or #6).

 

[Ezpz]

I'm sorry Emelin-Gonchar are not solid, definitely not as solid as Markov-Emelin were down the stretch last year. Elliotte Friedman was right about this defense being not very physical, what is worse is that they are not very mobile either (see Gorges, Bouillon, Beaulieu). By dismantling the defense Bergevin has created a team that no longer transitions well with speed. Next step is to break up the offense. Time to throw DD under the bus again, he didn't actually outplay Patrice Bergeron by a country mile in the playoffs, optical illusion. He's too French anyways. I said when Bergevin got trade happy the team was going to miss the playoffs. Can't build chemistry this way.

Bouillon and Gorges are the opposite of mobile wat. We had even worse problems last year with our defense.

 

[hf27]

LOL... Markov and Subban are the 2 only reliable D-man we have. That's the problem.

Main problem with this defense is Emelin. He simply doesn't belong in the NHL. Having him play 20 minutes is ridiculous.

Gonchar and Gilbert are fine as #5 and #6. However, we need a #3 and #4 (Weaver is a #5 or #6).

Bouillon and Gorges are the opposite of mobile wat. We had even worse problems last year with our defense.

Beaulieu if given a fair shake would slot nicely at #3 / #4. Boullion and Gorges played with a lot more heart than the guys who replaced them.

 

[missthenet]

Never seen such a clueless defensive squad. I cannot believe Bergervin was happy with them saying "we have something of every flavor". Look Weaver blocks shots but he's mediocre at everything else. Even our supposed better guys I find that Markov, PK and Emelin lack so much concentration.

according to Bergevin we have a number 1 and a number 2 defensemen and four number 6 dmen. Also does not trust Bealieu and Tinordi. How can he trust the four number 6 guys? Bealieu and Tinordi would be playing in the NHL on any other team not called Montreal. I am tired of this rebuild, all these years later and we are still struggling. These last four games should be a wakeup call to bergevin and MT.

 

[Analyzer*]

Why do you always ned to start a new thread?

Are you typing fron a Commodore 64?

Because his ideas are original that no one else has thought of.

 

[Bob b smith]

Can't give numbers, but "visually" (that's the new buzzword introduced by MacT!) our D recently has looked much worse. Despite the odd brain cramps, with either Tinordi or Beaulieu the D as a group used to look better. They looked faster and more dynamic...

Now the bottom-3s are a mess. They look old and slow. The personnel needs an internal upgrade if we want to get out of this mess.

 

[DAChampion]

Does everyone hate Emelin now?

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

We seriously need a #4 RHD

The Gilbert Project was not a success and since we've gone into desperation mode trying to put bandaids on the problem - happy we cleared cap space and never gave up any picks for them but a solid #4 RHD would give us some balance to build from

Then you ship out what you can of what's left in the scrap heap and call up Beaulieu/Tinordi

 

[Nynja*]

Er, not exactly.

The defense is old and slow. Because of this, the forwards often have to spend more energy back-checking and playing defensively. By doing that, they don't have the legs to then race up the ice to set up scoring chances. There are a few that can do this, Galchenyuk being one of them, but all of the forwards have been forced to play more defensively lately.

Early in the season, the Habs main strength on defense was their transition game. Without it now, the Habs are playing on the wrong side of the ice more often than not.

Аrpon Basu @ArponBasu · 10 hrs 10 hours ago
#Habs defencemen need binoculars to find a forward coming out of their zone. They're all at the red line waiting for a pass that won't work.

 

[Habitant#1]

We seriously need a #4 RHD

The Gilbert Project was not a success and since we've gone into desperation mode trying to put bandaids on the problem - happy we cleared cap space and never gave up any picks for them but a solid #4 RHD would give us some balance to build from

Then you ship out what you can of what's left in the scrap heap and call up Beaulieu/Tinordi

Interesting that that's what Bergevin tried to get for Gorges!

 

[Luigi Habs]

We have one #1 (Subban)
A #3 (Markov)
2 #5s (Emelin, Gonchar)
1 #6 (Gilbert)
And 2 # 7-8 (Allen, Weaver)

You can't expect much from that.

It all started with Bergevin's stupid decision to sign Gilbert. He later had to correct it by trading for Gonchar. He should've spent Gonchar's money in Free Agency to acquire a legit top 4 defenseman.

I miss the days when we had Hamrlik, he's exactly the type of defenseman we need right now in our top 4.

 

[Analyzer*]

Can someone remind me why J.J. Daigneault has a job as a defensive coach on an NHL! team?

Because his "You should always back up and let them gain the zone easily" approach is revolutionary. It totally confuses the opposition!

 

[HCH]

LOL... Markov and Subban are the 2 only reliable D-man we have. That's the problem.

Main problem with this defense is Emelin. He simply doesn't belong in the NHL. Having him play 20 minutes is ridiculous.

Gonchar and Gilbert are fine as #5 and #6. However, we need a #3 and #4 (Weaver is a #5 or #6).

You have completely lost any shred of credibility you may have had. Claiming that Weaver is a #5 and Emelin isn't NHL quality tells me that your understanding of the game is marginal at best.

Emelin isn't an all-star but he is an important part of the defense. He will make bonehead passes, take bad penalties once in a while and get beaten to the outside from time to time... but that happens to a lot of good defensemen. If it didn't all games would end 0-0.

The problem is that Markov and Subban have NOT been reliable. Both have been up and down all year but that doesn't mean they should be tossed from the team. They may have even played better than Emelin but they are supposed to play a LOT better than Emelin.

PK can't seem to make quick decisions well. He has to circle and circle and circle until he makes up his mind what to do. It's not working.

But all of the problems may not be the fault of the individuals. There seems to be little communication between forwards and defense. The Habs must lead the league in icings. What happened to short quick passes and a controlled breakout.

Let's face it, this team is poorly coached.

 

[HCH]

Аrpon Basu @ArponBasu · 10 hrs 10 hours ago
#Habs defencemen need binoculars to find a forward coming out of their zone. They're all at the red line waiting for a pass that won't work.

This is exactly what I see when I watch the team play

 

[Rapala]

This is exactly what I see when I watch the team play

We've been saying that since game 1...
This team is the worse short pass team in the league.
It's no fn wonder we can't execute 2-1...
it is pathetic and goes against every hockey fundamental I've ever been brought up with.

Our defense can not be properly assessed until M fn T comes up with a NHL game plan.
I realize some of our guys on D aren't the fleetest of foot but there is a ton of puck control potential if we impliment a support type of 5 man break out instead of this Hail Mary shhttt.

I am not amused.

 

[SnapVirus]

Arpon Basu is right. The system and the plan this year was to have mobile defencemen who can hel with the first pass and transition. Opening the gap between the wingers and the dmen.

The problem is even if we have good dmen for the "job", the strategy suck.

Emelin is good in a tight system when players are close to each other. But hes not very good to stop a fullspeed player from the other team when his own offensive players are milea behind.

We give too much break away.

The thing is.

Our players should be playing closer to each other.

We need to stop cycling the puck by the borard in the offensive zone. And we gotta start crashing the net.

Stop having only one defenseman down low in PP. We need to get back to two dmen close to the blue line. And remove DD in front of the net and put someone who can chip it in (ex. Galchenyuk).

 

[Whitesnake]

Not a Daigneault fan....but in that case are people on crack? Haven't you look the guys that are forming that D? So you have Subban and Markov. Subban is actually a star that is right now underperforming. Now...is it due to Daigneault's input? See, at that point, maybe. Daigneault "could" be responsible for the lack of confidence that Subban suffers. Subban doesn't play his game. His fault or the coaches' fault? Needs to be determined. So you want to fault Daigneault for Subbie? Fine go ahead.

Then...Markov. Guy is solid. But he is aging. And yet plays a whole lot anyway. But I don't think we can't fault him for a whole lot.

And then....here comes the downward spiral. Emelin is an awful top 4. He might actually not be a top 4. And it's a whole lot about decision making. Something Daigneault could help but it has to come from the player himself. And we may over overestimated him. Sad 'cause he has some offensive sense. Hits hard and skate well...but his decision making is awful. And then you have the festival of has-been and depth d-man playing REGULARLY on our roster. That makes this D either not physical, not great skating wise and sometimes both together. And half of them are pretty old, which makes the fatigue factor even more problematic as the season progresses and as the playoffs kicks in.

 

[David Thicke]

I don't know what the system is supposed to be but the gap between the forwards and the d-men is way too big. The back pressure is coming late which is forcing our defense to back up too far allowing easy access to our zone. This is stopping Emelin, Subban and Allen from unloading on the opposition forwards slightly before the blue line or standing up at the blueline, thus making it difficult to enter our end of the rink.

Our defensive zone positioning is leaving the middle too open and giving up easy slot exposure for the opposition. We have been sweeping our sticks at the opposition in our end of the rink instead of taking the body and stripping the player from the puck which could give our centers a chance to regain possession. Both wingers or two forwards blowing the defensive zone just as we gain possession will push the other teams defensemen back but leaves only one short option for our defensemen, they need two short options and one long one to keep the opposition guessing and back them off of their fore check. We end up spending way too energy chase the puck in our zone and the defensemen chipping the puck out or passing back and forth to avoid losing possession while hoping to find the open forward.

The power play need to play with more urgency and desperation with the puck, like our penalty killing teams. The set-up is way too predictable and stagnant so the opposition is simply taking away the shooting lanes. We need to move the players around constantly in order to make their box move and possibly break its position. The idea of having one player positioned below the goal line in a stopped position is stupid at the NHL level. He has very little options and they are mostly difficult, low percentage plays. If we position one man in front of the goalie at all times and move the d-men around the top of the umbrella and the other forward around between the backdoor and high slot, it will force the opposition's box to bend and cause missed assignments. It has to be all about movement on the power play so the defense can't know which shooting position is going to be used. The biggest problem is the entries to the offensive zones. Too many of our players standing still at the blueline making carrying the puck in difficult and they are stopped at most times leaving them too slow to retrieve a dump in. The more we hit the other teams blueline with speed as a close tight group, the more they have to back up to respect the speed and possible chip in or quick outside pass. The Habs are not changing up their entry positioning by overloading one side and going in on that side then next time maybe going weak side. They are not keeping the opposition guessing as to what they are going to do and are telegraphing too many of the passes. Doing the same set-up and entries for the last year with poor results is ridiculous. It is not working anymore and needs to be changed.

 

[Toastman]

I think trading Georges was a mistake. Sure, he was slightly overpaid, but he was always a league leader in blocked shots. Now, I'm not sure how many blocked shots the team has (total this season vs. total last season at this point), but I would guess it's much lower.

Having said that, our main issue now is 5 on 5 scoring. Our top 6 are simply not scoring goals !

 

[Toastman]

LOL... Markov and Subban are the 2 only reliable D-man we have. That's the problem.

Main problem with this defense is Emelin. He simply doesn't belong in the NHL. Having him play 20 minutes is ridiculous.

Gonchar and Gilbert are fine as #5 and #6. However, we need a #3 and #4 (Weaver is a #5 or #6).

We had a perrfect #3 , #4 D-man, but we traded him last season. Georges !