Our defence is a serious problem, what's the fix?

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by YNWA14, Nov 17, 2013.

View Users: View Users
  1. YNWA14

    YNWA14 You'll Never Walk Alone

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    27,233
    Likes Received:
    473
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Alright...so say what you want about leadership (we've seen worse), goaltending (we've had much worse) and scoring (we really don't have much of a problem here)...but the reality is that until the defence on this team is fixed those other things don't make much of a lick of difference. You can only count on the goalie to cover up the mistakes of an absolutely terrible defence for so long.

    People blame the forwards backchecking, or not supporting which happens at times but not nearly enough to shoulder the blame for how bad this defence has been. I won't even touch on the goaltending because these games could look a lot worse than they have without the goaltending we've received from both goalies.

    So then it falls to coaching. Again, I'm not willing to place the blame here either. The reality is this: the players that make up our defence are just not very good.

    Cowen, Wiercioch, Phillips, Corvo and Gryba just aren't very good players in the NHL (I think Borowiecki has been better than all 5 in his time with the big club this year, but he doesn't seem to get a ton of icetime). Phillips used to be great but he's getting older, and the other three are just not top 4 ready guys and unfortunately they're being used in that capacity. Methot is a good top 4 defender, but Karlsson still gets the bulk of the minutes and he's just not good playing defensively -- he's great going forward and transitioning, but he just doesn't make enough of an effort and there are clear lapses in his play in the defensive zone.

    So what does this leave us with? A defence corps that is bad and a #1 defender that is bad at playing in the defensive zone. Until that is fixed the rest of the team needs to play at 110% or better in order to cover up for that deficiency.

    What's the fix then? How can we remedy this situation? I guess the easy thing to suggest is making a trade for another top 4 defenceman, and maybe switching our system to look more like last year where creating a smooth offensive system with defencemen pinching a ton isn't the main goal and having the team play a much more defensive style with the forwards supporting the puck more and the defencemen playing more safely...but I'm not sure with the pieces we have if that's really going to help.

    I guess the team could also ride it out and hope that this is another period of transition where they're just getting comfortable and they'll turn it around. But I have to be honest...seeing how they've played up to this point has not been encouraging in this respect.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Super Cake

    Super Cake Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages:
    23,613
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Fire Melnyk. That is the only solution to this problem.
     
  3. Neil Patrick Harris

    Neil Patrick Harris Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Ottawa
    I agree that we should be looking for another top-four guy. As it stands now, our defense is a patchwork of young bucks and Chris Phillips and Marc Methot.

    Maybe we should've taken a run at Smid given what Calgary had to give up to get him from their biggest rival.
     
  4. Tampacuseforever

    Tampacuseforever Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    66
    If we could fix this many of our other perceived problems would disappear.
     
  5. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    19,250
    Likes Received:
    927
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Sales/Business/Investment
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    My counter question is why the defense looks fine when the Turris line is out there?

    But yes we miss a real #2 or #3 depending where you see Methot, but ideally we'd need someone better offensively

    Add another Methot and the defense looks good.

    Methot-Karlsson
    Cowen-Methot
    Phillips-Borowiecki
    Wiercioch/Corvo

    That being said, I think Karlsson has been our worst D-man defensively, and I say this as a big Karlsson fan and collector.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  6. YNWA14

    YNWA14 You'll Never Walk Alone

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    27,233
    Likes Received:
    473
    Trophy Points:
    124
    This is something I just don't get. There's no way that Ottawa couldn't have outbid for Smid...it's crazy because he would have been a perfect target. They must not have really been shopping him.

    This is how I feel also.
     
  7. Ed Wood

    Ed Wood Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,539
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    Ottawa
    We're carrying eight defensemen. Cowen and Phillips have been the worst of the group but seem to be immune from benching. I'd start there and see how we look.

    I thought Gryba was terrific last year when receiving top four minutes. I'd like to see more of that.

    Trade Anderson for a Calgary defenseman. T.J. Brodie would be nice but we might have to add something. Kris Russell and Dennis Wideman are excellent puck movers but with sub par defense. Ladislav Smid is strong defensively but has no puck skills and Mark Giordano isn't going anywhere.
     
  8. Vesa Awesaka

    Vesa Awesaka #KeepTheSenate

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    18,236
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    96
    A lot of GMs didnt know he was available apparently
     
  9. Scrub*

    Scrub* Team Canada

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9,289
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Trade a draft pick for a top 4 D from one of the bottom teams.
     
  10. YNWA14

    YNWA14 You'll Never Walk Alone

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    27,233
    Likes Received:
    473
    Trophy Points:
    124
    To start the season this was true, but with every passing game it seems that their Corsi is dropping and their PDO suggests they've been pretty lucky, too. The last 5 games there's been a number of issues with that line that have it not looking the same as the first part of the season.

    Also sometimes when a line has great chemistry and pieces like the Turris line it can make up for a lot of deficiencies. Anyone can tell you that for most of this season that line has been absolutely fantastic...but also likely playing a bit above their heads. As I said above...the forwards have to play beyond their normal levels to make up for the deficiencies on the back-end right now and that's not something sustainable every night by anyone.

    http://www.extraskater.com/player/53/kyle-turris

    This actually paints a pretty ugly picture of late. Maybe corresponding with when he started being matched up with the toughest lines? IDK for sure.
     
  11. swiftwin

    swiftwin #melnykout

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    11,808
    Likes Received:
    1,727
    Trophy Points:
    186
    We're lacking in the puck movement department because of the loss of Gonchar. I said before the season started that the loss of Gonchar would be bigger than the loss of Alfie, and it's showing big time right now.

    After Karlsson, nobody is good at moving the puck out of out zone. Methot isn't bad, but after him, the rest are brutal at it. It's like the old Hartsburg days when Karlsson isn't on the ice.
     
  12. arglebargle

    arglebargle Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't see how yet another stay at home D-man is going to help. We're lacking guys with puck moving skills.
     
  13. ZekeA

    ZekeA The Pride is Back...

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    550
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    Where the Cup is
    1st off I am not a coach, but I have an idea................

    Change the Sens style of play, go to a style of clean your own end up 1st then worry about going down to the other end of the ice.........

    Hit the other team slow them down, rules say you can still do that. Not all bone crunching hits but hit them and finish your checks......

    Style of play might be a bit slow, and hold down the Sens scoring, but against Philly they got shut out, and today they had one (1) goal so how could that get worse................??????????????
     
  14. burf

    burf Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    649
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Nah, they've been matched up against the toughest lines since the first few games of the season. It's mostly just their atrocious D-zone start% catching up to them.
     
  15. arglebargle

    arglebargle Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't forget that Wiercioch and Andre Benoit both did a great job moving the puck out of our end last year.
     
  16. ZekeA

    ZekeA The Pride is Back...

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    550
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    Where the Cup is
    I wish Ottawa still had Andre Benoit, I always liked him.

    He was a hard worker, and a class act on & off the ice...

    In my view the Sens made a mistake not resigning Andre, and that mistake is showing now~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. HavlatMach9

    HavlatMach9 streamable 3rah1

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    13,056
    Likes Received:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Ottawa
    We're a budget team that thought the defense was sufficient, so we prioritized offense bringing in Ryan and MacArthur, but have found the defense insufficient.

    We can wait it out and have our young D get better over the course of the season and hope we make the playoffs. We can bring in a veteran D now and we may need to do it.
     
  18. arglebargle

    arglebargle Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's not clear to me that management recognizes the lack of puck movement from the back end as a problem, given that they've sat their 2nd and 3rd best puck movers for much of the season so far in favor of Cowen and Gryba.
     
  19. Sensinitis

    Sensinitis Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    12,166
    Likes Received:
    1,072
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Gender:
    Male
    Methot-Karlsson

    Phillips-Borowiecki

    There's a hole. Find it.
     
  20. L'Aveuglette

    L'Aveuglette "We're a team"

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    31,193
    Likes Received:
    2,655
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Montreal
    There's gotta be an underlying coaching/chemistry problem though. I mean sure, we absolutely need a #3-4 dman on this team, and fast, but it doesn't make much sense that all of Cowen, Gryba, Wiericoch and Phillips have all regressed at the same time. They were not this bad last season. Something is wrong at a deeper level which from the outside is hard to guess at. So yeah, do try and acquire that missing defenseman who will be able to move the puck adequately while being responsible in his own end(and relieve pressure from EK), but until the team starts playing better D as a whole, one addition won't make much of a difference.
     
  21. ChocolateLeclaire

    ChocolateLeclaire Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,042
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Murray gambled big time on Wiercoch filling in for both Gonchar and Benoit.

    Huge miscalculation.
     
  22. arglebargle

    arglebargle Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What bugs me is that we know Wier can move the puck and contribute offensively, yet he isn't given any room for error. Meanwhile Cowen looks like he's performing the Aristocrats out there and he never gets scratched.
     
  23. Spez

    Spez Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gonchar and Benoit are not exactly doing well on their other teams. They both would be whipping boys here too, especially Gonchar. Checked some Avs GDT and there was a lot of Benoit bashing though to be fair I think they are having him play on the 2nd pairing. Gonchar has been brutal for Dallas and they have been criticizing him as well.
     
  24. Hossa18

    Hossa18 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree 100%.....Weircoch can't get into a groove because he plays two games and then sits two games meanwhile Cowen has been just as bad and doesn't sit any games. You can't show favoritism if you want your players to respect you.
     
  25. Ed Wood

    Ed Wood Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,539
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Benoit not doing well? You've got to be kidding. He's averaging 20:45 minutes a game for the team with the second best goals against in the league. His team in the most improved team in the NHL and he's a big part of that. Why we only offered him a two way contract will be a mystery to me forever.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"