Other coach options?

[TheNumber4]

My thing is, if the team looked well coached and played well for what the roster was but didn't win a ton, that's fine. But it's not even for how bad the roster is, most nights they play far worse than they should.

Its always going to be a mix of both. A bit of coaching and a bit of personnel. I mean Chia was right with "Death by a Thousand Cuts". Myself, I tend to think a lot of the times the team looks like they aren't playing with enough "effort" or "readiness" is the team just not being good enough. Like no amount of coaching/effort/being ready is going to fix Lucic's problem of slow acceleration, under average hands, leading him to lose the puck on a breakout attempt. And sometimes when the opposition team is ON YOU as soon as you get the puck and give you no time to breathe like in that Washington-Tampa duo of crappy games it could look like the team is "tired" but then you look at the foot race and it's Brayden Point vs. an Aging Brodziak or something and then you think it's the roster. Then there's the day in and day out occurrence of having ZERO offensive zone system or idea or direction, and I think THIS COACH IS OUT OF f***IN IDEAS.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Well a normal franchise lets a new GM hire his own coach. That's "normally" how it works.

The gong show way of doing it which is what the Oilers will do is hire someone, then realize the team still sucks, then fire the GM, then hire a new GM, and guess what? That new GM will then want his "own guys" because every GM wants that.

That's the gong show way and that's what the Oilers will obviously do. Because that's how they operate.

Or you know, we fire McLellan to get rid of that tumor and have Gulutzan take over in the interim until Chia is let go at the end of the season (if the team is still this terrible).

You know, things good orgs have done in the past?

 

[Soundwave]

Or you know, we fire McLellan to get rid of that tumor and have Gulutzan take over in the interim until Chia is let go at the end of the season (if the team is still this terrible).

You know, things good orgs have done in the past?

Let me tell you how this movie ends. The team is still going to be bad.

They will still be bad even if by miracle they get a shot in the ass from Gulutzan and make the playoffs.

They're not a well built team and that will *always* come back to haunt you, you can only fake that for so long or hire so many coaches to try and put lipstick on that pig.

They're going to be an up and down team so long as they're built in this philosophy.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Let me tell you how this movie ends. The team is still going to be bad.

They will still be bad even if by miracle they get a shot in the ass from Gulutzan and make the playoffs.

They're not a well built team and that will *always* come back to haunt you, you can only fake that for so long or hire so many coaches to try and put lipstick on that pig.

They're going to be an up and down team so long as they're built in this philosophy.

I'm done. You clearly don't understand words other people say

 

[TheNumber4]

Let me tell you how this movie ends. The team is still going to be bad.

They will still be bad even if by miracle they get a shot in the ass from Gulutzan and make the playoffs.

They're not a well built team and that will *always* come back to haunt you, you can only fake that for so long or hire so many coaches to try and put lipstick on that pig.

They're going to be an up and down team so long as they're built in this philosophy.

It's the most likely scenario really. A team without a PuckMoving D and a complete set of 6 actual NHL quality defenceman aren't going anywhere. But on the coaching change, it still is the only real option at this point. Which is sad, but that's the reality. So yes, Roster sucks. But also, atleast with a coaching change there's a slim chance we get some Anaheim Mighty Ducks Movie Miracle affect.

 

[Soundwave]

It's the most likely scenario really. A team without a PuckMoving D and a complete set of 6 actual NHL quality defenceman aren't going anywhere. But on the coaching change, it still is the only real option at this point. Which is sad, but that's the reality. So yes, Roster sucks. But also, atleast with a coaching change there's a slim chance we get some Anaheim Mighty Ducks Movie Miracle affect.

Honestly the best thing for this franchise is probably to miss the playoffs and have to own up to their mediocrity.

The Islanders never did that, they would make the playoffs just enough (one every 3 years or so) to give them fools hope and all the while Tavares grew unhappy there and we know how that ended.

It would have been better for them if things came to a head earlier and they could have realized they really freaking needed to fire that Snow fool and commit to building a proper team around Tavares.

And yes it sucks that that is the best scenario, but these are the horrible scenarios this team puts its fanbase into. Can't even cheer for them because you know any modicum of success will go to their stupid heads and they will think they're en route to a dynasty.

 

[TheNumber4]

I think one issue too is the Oilers players seem to constantly have low value. The coach isn't getting the most out of the players so every trade ends up being a loss almost no matter what.

Don't want Chia to stay but I can't see other GM's getting good value for our players either if coaching constantly gets this little out of the roster.

I'm down for a new coach at this point. On the value thing, I would like to see a coach who believes in a concept called building chemistry. It seems like if you keep players together long enough they seem to build it. Kassian seems to attribute his 4th line's success to that very concept he stated recently in an interview. Look at Boston's and Colorado's top lines. They've spent the time together to learn how to play with eachother. I wonder if another coach see's that McDavid could set up Rattie just as much as he could set up Draisaitl. In terms of finishing percentages after that, to my eye it looks like Drai's percentages are pretty low and an argument could be made that Rattie could have finished some of those passes. So now you up Rattie's value from nothing to atleast SOMETHING. Where do you take Drai? He's already an 8.5M McDavid Specialist Right Winger.

 

[rboomercat90]

Unfortunately will never happen. OBC will not admit to making a mistake letting him go and Todd would lose face coming back here after how he was treated. Pity actually.

I don’t think Todd would lose face in any way. He’d be the hero coming back. The organization would be losing face. They let him go to spend a fortune on a guy that turned out to be a bust. That said, I can’t see him wanting to come back with Mactavish still working here. I doubt he could trust him.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm down for a new coach at this point. On the value thing, I would like to see a coach who believes in a concept called building chemistry. It seems like if you keep players together long enough they seem to build it. Kassian seems to attribute his 4th line's success to that very concept he stated recently in an interview. Look at Boston's and Colorado's top lines. They've spent the time together to learn how to play with eachother. I wonder if another coach see's that McDavid could set up Rattie just as much as he could set up Draisaitl. In terms of finishing percentages after that, to my eye it looks like Drai's percentages are pretty low and an argument could be made that Rattie could have finished some of those passes. So now you up Rattie's value from nothing to atleast SOMETHING. Where do you take Drai? He's already an 8.5M McDavid Specialist Right Winger.

That's my thing to. Even if we traded Chia for the best GM in the league, I'd the players are still playing like shit due to coaching, how is the gm going to fix things. A great GM can't win trades if coaching is helping to destroy player value.

 

[TheNumber4]

Honestly the best thing for this franchise is probably to miss the playoffs and have to own up to their mediocrity.

The Islanders never did that, they would make the playoffs just enough (one every 3 years or so) to give them fools hope and all the while Tavares grew unhappy there and we know how that ended.

It would have been better for them if things came to a head earlier and they could have realized they really freaking needed to fire that Snow fool and commit to building a proper team around Tavares.

And yes it sucks that that is the best scenario, but these are the horrible scenarios this team puts its fanbase into. Can't even cheer for them because you know any modicum of success will go to their stupid heads and they will think they're en route to a dynasty.

Hmm the long view eh? Possibly, but its far too painful for any more rebuilding years. We've never really left the Decade of Darkness. Maybe they could it in the short term: New coach -> Winning -> Inflated Values of Players -> Luckily Winning Some Trades -> Bouchard, Yamo, Pulju Actually Develop under New Coach? -> More Winning?

 

[Soundwave]

Todd will go re-team with Babcock in Toronto, look great and then get a nice gig somewhere else in a market probably a helluva lot warmer than Edmonton. He'll be fine.

 

[rboomercat90]

McLellan has shown he can at least get playoffs with a decent roster, he's not being given that here.

Is he a guy who's gonna lead you to a Cup no, but if you give him a decent roster and he'll get you into the playoffs. If that's not happening it means the roster is crap.

Mclellan needs a roster strong enough to be able to withstand his shitty coaching decisions to get into the playoffs. We have no idea what the roster is or isn’t due to the way he uses his players.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Hmm the long view eh? Possibly, but its far too painful for any more rebuilding years. We've never really left the Decade of Darkness. Maybe they could it in the short term: New coach -> Winning -> Inflated Values of Players -> Luckily Winning Some Trades -> Bouchard, Yamo, Pulju Actually Develop under New Coach? -> More Winning?

Nah we need to trade Lucic for Crosby. A real gm could do it.

 

[TheNumber4]

That's my thing to. Even if we traded Chia for the best GM in the league, I'd the players are still playing like **** due to coaching, how is the gm going to fix things. A great GM can't win trades if coaching is helping to destroy player value.

Luckily for us, a new coach is a guarantee with a new GM. And a new coach is at this point with Chia is our only option. Although I could definitely see the Oilers stretch this into the offseason.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Luckily for us, a new coach is a guarantee with a new GM. And a new coach is at this point with Chia is our only option. Although I could definitely see the Oilers stretch this into the offseason.

I think the Oilers fire McLellan, ride Gulutzan while Chia tries to lure Quenneville

Team continues to lose but stays in games most nights, the lack of depth sewers us but players stocks rise.

Chia is fired, new gm brings in new coach.

 

[Soundwave]

Mclellan needs a roster strong enough to be able to withstand his ****ty coaching decisions to get into the playoffs. We have no idea what the roster is or isn’t due to the way he uses his players.

This roster sucks.

It was said with Renney "we don't know what we have our roster is so talented we just need a coach who will unleash it!".

Yeah ok. Then the same with Kruger "we need a high tempo coach who can unleash the talent we have! This guy is holding Yakupov back!".

Same nonsense every time. "It's the coaches fault, we need a new coach so we can see how great of star studded roster is".

Uh no. You have 2 good players and then maybe 2-3 other OK players, 1 low hockey I.Q. high draft pick winger, and a coach in hot water ... same thing 5 years ago, same thing today. It's hilarious actually that they keep going in circles like this.

This is a one line hockey team with a bland to mediocre blue line, little scoring depth, and goalies that crumble behind said blue line. You don't need a new coach to realize that.

 

[TheNumber4]

I think the Oilers fire McLellan, ride Gulutzan while Chia tries to lure Quenneville

Team continues to lose but stays in games most nights, the lack of depth sewers us but players stocks rise.

Chia is fired, new gm brings in new coach.

Don't know how it'll go down as long as the target and prize ends up be Queenville or AV level I'll be okay with it. Personally I'm not a fan of Gulatzan. We saw the Flames last year. I think Chia (who deserves a lot of blame for failed gambles) gets more leash. He gets atleast one more failed coaching pick.

 

[rboomercat90]

No one's ****ing saying it would change everything overnight. We are saying can the guy to stop the ****ing massive bleeding and bring in a guy that can properly develop young players and start the road to recovery.

What you are basically saying is "well stopping meth won't make it better overnight, might as well keep doing meth"

Awesome analogy. That’s the exact logic he’s using.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Don't know how it'll go down as long as the target and prize ends up be Queenville or AV level I'll be okay with it. Personally I'm not a fan of Gulatzan. We saw the Flames last year. I think Chia (who deserves a lot of blame for failed gambles) gets more leash. He gets atleast one more failed coaching pick.

Gulutzan had the flames playing well until goaltending fell apart. Don't think he is a great coach but it's a different guy we already have that could boost some players stock and we look for a guy.

 

[TheNumber4]

Gulutzan had the flames playing well until goaltending fell apart. Don't think he is a great coach but it's a different guy we already have that could boost some players stock and we look for a guy.

Hmm good point. Mike Smith is a sieve. It'd be sweet if Gulatzan worked out somehow and then we knock the Flames out of the playoffs. Still not a fan though.

 

[Soundwave]

Don't know how it'll go down as long as the target and prize ends up be Queenville or AV level I'll be okay with it. Personally I'm not a fan of Gulatzan. We saw the Flames last year. I think Chia (who deserves a lot of blame for failed gambles) gets more leash. He gets atleast one more failed coaching pick.

I have doubts either of Q or AV would come here though. I mean any coach that does his homework on this roster is likely gonna look at it and say "I'm being set up to be screwed". Maaaaybe AV, maybe he's been out for a bit and has that itch to coach and he would jump in but I dunno.

I think Q says no.

I think Bob Hartley would say yes. I'm not sure how much of an upgrade that is.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Hmm good point. Mike Smith is a sieve. It'd be sweet if Gulatzan worked out somehow and then we knock the Flames out of the playoffs. Still not a fan though.

I'm not either but if he is just the interim coach it's fine. Much better then allowing Todd to fumble and continue to sewer what little value our roster has.

 

[TheNumber4]

I have doubts either of Q or AV would come here though. I mean any coach that does his homework on this roster is likely gonna look at it and say "I'm being set up to be screwed". Maaaaybe AV, maybe he's been out for a bit and has that itch to coach and he would jump in but I dunno.

I think Q says no.

Could be right. Maybe I'm holding onto the McDavid effect. Does that work on coaches and does it still exist?

 

[rboomercat90]

And Todd hasn't done **** for players in a while.

On top of all this, it's clear as day he has lost the room. Don't know if you have played sports or understand much about it, but when a coach completely loses the room, you can't fix that. That's the end.

He lost the room last year, then he quit on the players himself and he’s still the coach. Yeah, let’s keep this guy around. That has nothing to do with how the players are playing because they all just suck. Everyday since January has been a wasted day.

 

[Soundwave]

I think realistically if Bobby Burgers call around he'll get the following responses

Quennville - No
Vingenault - Probably no.
Hartley - Yes
D. Sutter - I'm retired, but I've always had a secret fantasy of coaching the Oilers, maybe.
B. Sutter - Yes
Gulutzan - Yes
Bylsma - (we don't want this guy)
Nelson - No

Of the people likely to say yes, I think Bob Hartley is probably the best option, but I dunno how much better than Todd he is. At least his post-game scrums would be fun to listen to.