Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LXVI: Bulls Lose the Draft Lottery Hard

[MurrayBannerman]

BS

The 90's West had stacked teams full of stars that just ran into the Bulls and there has been nothing to come out of East in NBA comparable to a Houston of 90's

Utah
Portland
Phoenix
Seattle

All those teams would have won a title if the Jordan Bulls weren't around to dominate for most of 90's and that is on top of the great teams of East (Pacers , Knicks , Heat , etc) that ran into those Bulls

Uh, the Cleveland Cavaliers? Their time has passed, but they were just as much of a juggernaut as anyone.

Now, one of the remaining four teams could certainly be that. All of Toronto, Milwaukee, Boston, and Philly are threatening. Then you have the Pacers without Oladipo, who are just up and down the lineup well coached and great fits together.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Friendly counter argument about parity that I usually bring up.

The NHL, the league that has for years argued that they are the paradigm of parity, has had the least number of unique champions over the past decade.

For the past ten championships, five different teams have won. The NFL and MLS have had eight different teams, MLB has had seven, and even the boringly predictable, no upset, prone to superteam NBA has had six different teams win their championship over the past ten seasons.

The NBA is a joke for plenty of reasons, but the first round going chalk isn't really proof of that.

 

[hawksrule]

In West = Sure

The East is and has been joke for a longtime now

Frankly the talent in 90's was more impressive and there were far more great teams in 90's many of whom ran into the Bulls Dynasty or the Rockets 2 years of dominance

That’s simply untrue. The ‘90s were still a time of centers who couldn’t dribble, pf’s who couldn’t shoot, sf’s who couldn’t hit a 3, etc. Most one-dimensional ‘90s players either wouldn’t make the league today or would have dramatically reduced roles.

And who were the great teams that just happened to run into the bulls and rockets?

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Friendly counter argument about parity that I usually bring up.

The NHL, the league that has for years argued that they are the paradigm of parity, has had the least number of unique champions over the past decade.

For the past ten championships, five different teams have won. The NFL and MLS have had eight different teams, MLB has had seven, and even the boringly predictable, no upset, prone to superteam NBA has had six different teams win their championship over the past ten seasons.

The NBA is a joke for plenty of reasons, but the first round going chalk isn't really proof of that.

I took a look at this actually not that long ago. It's a bit deceiving because if you look at the count of teams that made the championship, the NBA was definitely last in terms of teams reaching the Championship.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I took a look at this actually not that long ago. It's a bit deceiving because if you look at the count of teams that made the championship, the NBA was definitely last in terms of teams reaching the Championship.

Since 1979-80(Magic Johnson and Larry Bird's rookie season)
# of championships:
LA Lakers-9
Chicago Bulls-6
San Antonio Spurs-5
Boston Celtics-4
Golden State Warriors-3
Miami Heat-3
Detroit Pistons-3
Houston Rockets-2
Cleveland Cavaliers-1
Dallas Mavericks-1
Philadelphia 76ers-1
And that is it over a 39 season sample. The Lakers and Bulls alone account for ~40% of all championships over the last 40 seasons

 

[piteus]

The NBA playoffs are not a joke, but their officiating sucks. The fouls are so subjective, it's not easy when the athletes are so big and fast. Imagine if NHL refs had to call 40 penalties a game. There are going to be a lot of controversial calls. Heck, fans and players are complaining about icing nowadays.

The NBA playoffs does have a problem. It's the sport where NBA refs are affected the most by the home crowd. Could it be because it's the sport where fans and coaches are right on top of them? College basketball is worse when it comes to home cooking calls. That said, while the NHL playoffs are awesome because of the unpredictability ... it cheapens the regular season. Let's not forget, the NHL refs annoyingly swallow their whistle in post season.

In the NBA playoffs, the best teams usually wins the 7 game series. 1/4 best regular season teams usually wins the championship. In that sense, it might be the fairest playoff to decide the champion.

There are pros and cons of all the NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL, Champions League post seasons. How many times have undeserving clubs won matches by scoring a lucky goal and parking the bus? The NFL is a 1 game playoff. Anything can happen in 1 game. 1 dominant pitcher can throw 3 games in a series nowadays with all the rest in between games.

I think the Premier League does it best. Round robin regular season among 20 teams to crown the champion ... with a lesser elimination tournament during the season. Finally, the bottom teams are relegated so there is no tanking.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I'd add that the star players yelling at the refs after seemingly every call is really bad too in the NBA. That's probably my pet peeve about the NBA right now.

 

[piteus]

I'd add that the star players yelling at the refs after seemingly every call is really bad too in the NBA. That's probably my pet peeve about the NBA right now.

Started by Chris Paul. He complains about every call even when it's a clear foul. It's really annoying.

I have no problem if players complain when it's an egregious call. However, they should be forced to publicly apologize post game when their complaints are clearly proven wrong on replay.

 

[hawksrule]

Started by Chris Paul. He complains about every call even when it's a clear foul. It's really annoying.

I have no problem if players complain when it's an egregious call. However, they should be forced to publicly apologize post game when their complaints are clearly proven wrong on replay.

Tim Duncan was the first one who wouldn’t stop whining. Jordan did a lot too, but Duncan brought it to a new level.

 

[piteus]

Tim Duncan was the first one who wouldn’t stop whining. Jordan did a lot too, but Duncan brought it to a new level.

The palms up Tim Duncan should be the statue in front of the San Antonio Arena.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Started by Chris Paul. He complains about every call even when it's a clear foul. It's really annoying.

I have no problem if players complain when it's an egregious call. However, they should be forced to publicly apologize post game when their complaints are clearly proven wrong on replay.

He's probably the worst offender. Those last few years of those Clippers teams with Doc and Blake always complaining as well, were such a chore to watch, which is ironic how much fun "Lob City" was when it first came about.

I'll add that Harden is probably the hardest guy to officiate in the league. If he see's you have a hand out of position, he's going to shoot or dribble through to force the contact and draw the foul. I don't really enjoy his style of play (although he's great at it) and I certainly don't envy the refs calling his games.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

I'd add that the star players yelling at the refs after seemingly every call is really bad too in the NBA. That's probably my pet peeve about the NBA right now.

This happens in a lot of leagues to be fair, but due to the volume of calls in the NBA it seems like a larger problem.

Fouling is another reason I really dislike watching NBA games. There's just so much of it. I'm honestly amazed when I meet someone who watches games from start to finish.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Basketball has fundamentally evolved and I don't find the new NBA entertaining. It isn't basketball anymore. When a 21 year old Shaq barely has a place on a modern NBA roster there is something wrong. It has become a glorified game of pick up. Athleticism and shooting are all that matter in the new NBA. If you can shoot and are a freak athlete, you can play. If you have old time skills, forget about it.

 

[piteus]

Basketball has fundamentally evolved and I don't find the new NBA entertaining. It isn't basketball anymore. When a 21 year old Shaq barely has a place on a modern NBA roster there is something wrong. It has become a glorified game of pick up. Athleticism and shooting are all that matter in the new NBA. If you can shoot and are a freak athlete, you can play. If you have old time skills, forget about it.

The NBA is going to have to move the 3 point line back. Advanced analytics say that the most efficient shot in basketball are the 3 pointer, lay up, and free throw. Guess what the best teams do? That's why when the Bulls draft, I'm always yelling at the Bulls to draft players who can shoot 3s, finish lay ups, and get to the FT line ... or athletic and long enough to defend 3s, stop lay ups without fouling. The NBA has become too predictable.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

The NBA is going to have to move the 3 point line back. Advanced analytics say that the most efficient shot in basketball are the 3 pointer, lay up, and free throw. Guess what the best teams do? That's why when the Bulls draft, I'm always yelling at the Bulls to draft players who can shoot 3s, finish lay ups, and get to the FT line ... or athletic and long enough to defend 3s, stop lay ups without fouling. The NBA has become too predictable.

Every sport is changing. Even hockey is leagues different from the version we saw in the 90s.

 

[piteus]

Every sport is changing. Even hockey is leagues different from the version we saw in the 90s.

What is the big change in hockey due analytics? I know speed is more emphasized than size now. What are some of the others?

One thing I would like to see changed is goalie equipment. Can we make their equipment and uniform smaller without sacrificing safety? That might make the game more fun.

 

[RayP]

I'd add that the star players yelling at the refs after seemingly every call is really bad too in the NBA. That's probably my pet peeve about the NBA right now.

I hate how players try and force a trade to a team of their liking and the super teams the most.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

I hate how players try and force a trade to a team of their liking and the super teams the most.

More player agency is a good thing though.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

More player agency is a good thing though.

Is it, from the fans perspective?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

More player agency is a good thing though.

There has to be a balance between giving the players the amount of freedom they deserve and destroying competitive balance. The NBA has gone too far toward the former, and need to fix the latter. It is a very fine line that needs to be walked.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Is it, from the fans perspective?

As a casual, absolutely. As a fan of a desirable team/market, absolutely. As a second or third tier organization? It’s death.

I’m fine with it though. Always support labor.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

There has to be a balance between giving the players the amount of freedom they deserve and destroying competitive balance. The NBA has gone too far toward the former, and need to fix the latter. It is a very fine line that needs to be walked.

Aren’t their numbers higher than ever? Genuinely unsure, but if they are I don’t think the league considers it an issue.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Is it, from the fans perspective?

From the fans perspective, any player agency whatsoever is horrible. Again, I don't mind the players getting their piece of the pie, but I think fans are tired of the binary team building process. I don't think there is a good solution. The only one I can think of is to give teams two caps, a rookie cap and the total salary cap and make rookies free agents. You can spend as much money as you want. Imagine Connor McDavid being recruited like Ohtani was in 2017-18. Everyone has the same amount of money to spend, so it would all come down to the pitch and fit with coaches and culture. It would have been different, because if you got McDavid in 2015 this way he was your entire rookie class. The big issue is that this wouldn't work in the NBA.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

More player agency is a good thing though.

Ask New Orleans Pelicans fans if they agree with you

lmao you've been spewing even worse takes than normal lately

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Aren’t their numbers higher than ever? Genuinely unsure, but if they are I don’t think the league considers it an issue.

Yes, they don't consider it an issue and I 100% am in agreement with siding with labor.