OT: Why does Canada suck at soccer?

[heutZe]

I'm probably the only person that thinks this way, but I don't even care that we suck at soccer on the men's side. Soccer is the most common and popular sport on the planet. It doesn't seem like such a big deal to be great at soccer. That might be kind of backwards thinking, since on the flip side you don't want to be the best at something nobody cares about either, but I just can't bring myself to care about the fact Canada isn't competitive in soccer on the world stage. Let the oodles of other nations who excel at soccer duke it out while Canada continues to set the standard for hockey as well as some other winter sports. Canada is also a rising tennis nation, which, as a tennis player and fan, is very exciting for me.

Norway is the greatest winter sports nation in the world, but it mattered more to Norwegians that we had a fantastic football team in the 90s.

Norway coming back to beat Brazil in 98 is regarded as the greatest sports moment in Norwegian history.

To be great at football is a big deal.

 

[Imuzi]

I don't think we'll be as awful as he have been in the past over the next few years. The MLS teams and to a lesser extent the NASL teams in Canada are doing well in growing the talent pool up here. We also have several young players overseas playing in actually decent teams and putting in great performances (Aird with Rangers of the Scottish League and Petrasso with QPR in the premier league are just a few to be named here).

We might not make the world cup in 2018 but the 2022 world cup is a real possibility if we get a fair slice of luck.

 

[CCF]

Again, the biggest reason we suck is that our 3 or 4 best players don't play for us.

Our biggest problem is that any player we develop of any real quality will take advantage to tenuous links to European countries because a) the travel involved is much, much less and b) the glamour of playing in World Cups and Euro Championships is much higher than playing in Gold Cups.

If we have Begovic, de Rosario, Hoilett, and Bunbury on the squad our national team suddenly doesn't look terrible.

This, this, this.

I feel like a broken record because I've been repeating this point myself. Canada won't be successful until our best players choose to represent Canada. Unfortunately that it proving to be more difficult than it should be. Of course, our best players won't play for Canada until we have real international success (i.e. making the World Cup).

Securing a CONCACAF spot in the World Cup really shouldn't be that difficult. If you look at World Cup qualifying throughout history, Mexico and USA have qualified 15 and 10 times respectively. After that there's a huge drop off, Costa Rica 4 times, Honduras 3 times, El Salvador twice, and then 5 countries, including Canada, who have qualified once. Basically I read that as the third and any subsequent spots are up for grabs.

Even then, the US and Mexico are beatable especially if you consider that Mexico barely squeaked into this World Cup.

Canada has work to do, but the pieces are there and we play in one of the weaker federations - qualifying in 2018 or 2022 is doable. If not, then we host 2026 and there we go. :p

 

[Kirikanoir]

This, this, this.

I feel like a broken record because I've been repeating this point myself. Canada won't be successful until our best players choose to represent Canada. Unfortunately that it proving to be more difficult than it should be. Of course, our best players won't play for Canada until we have real international success (i.e. making the World Cup).

Sounds like a catch 22 situation. Our best players won`t play for us until we have international success, and we won`t have international success until our best players play for us. If that`s the case then we`re pretty much doomed.

Securing a CONCACAF spot in the World Cup really shouldn't be that difficult. If you look at World Cup qualifying throughout history, Mexico and USA have qualified 15 and 10 times respectively. After that there's a huge drop off, Costa Rica 4 times, Honduras 3 times, El Salvador twice, and then 5 countries, including Canada, who have qualified once. Basically I read that as the third and any subsequent spots are up for grabs.

Even then, the US and Mexico are beatable especially if you consider that Mexico barely squeaked into this World Cup.

Canada has work to do, but the pieces are there and we play in one of the weaker federations - qualifying in 2018 or 2022 is doable. If not, then we host 2026 and there we go. :p

I think we better start showing we can beat teams like Honduras before we worry about whether the US and Mexico are beatable.
Getting hammered 8-1 against Honduras in a crucial game showed we still have a ways to go to catch up with those teams.

 

[the beat]

Canada sucks at soccer because our system is ****ed from the top down. CSA is incompetent and until they get their act together the dismal results will continue. Top Canadian players like De Guzman don't play in Canada for that very reason and I don't blame him. Time and time again we hear that the CSA will fix the issues and we see the same incompetence year in and year out.

 

[Jyrki21]

No they don't. Unless Quebec secedes, FIFA will not open that Pandora box in a million years. It opens the door for Catalonia and other regions to follow suit, and politically it would be disastrous for FIFA.

FIFA and their conferences have waded into politics plenty of times, and do recognize not-fully-sovereign jurisdictions, for example the Palestinian team, recognizing a Taiwan team at the same time as a PRC one, Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands, Kosovo's membership in UEFA, and of course the longstanding precedent of allowing each of the UK's home countries to field their own side (I know it's grandfathered in, but Gilles Duceppe was one of the people who referred to it as precedent all the same). I know there are some considerations for overseas territories and the agreement of the 'parent' country, etc., but zanier things have happened, anyway.

The Quebec nationalist movement has plenty of support in Europe (more often whimsical than militant, but it doesn't stop every second person from telling me this in France despite my anglo accent), and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with some reason it was OK in CONCACAF.

 

[*Injektilo]

FIFA and their conferences have waded into politics plenty of times, and do recognize not-fully-sovereign jurisdictions, for example the Palestinian team, recognizing a Taiwan team at the same time as a PRC one, Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands

All of which are unique situations that Quebec cannot be considered analogous.

Kosovo's membership in UEFA

What?

and of course the longstanding precedent of allowing each of the UK's home countries to field their own side (I know it's grandfathered in, but Gilles Duceppe was one of the people who referred to it as precedent all the same).

So what? There's nothing to grandfather in, as Quebec has never had a national team.

I know there are some considerations for overseas territories and the agreement of the 'parent' country, etc., but zanier things have happened, anyway.

For FIFA or CONCACAF to recognize Quebec would be pretty much right up there, especially after the turban fiasco of last year.

The Quebec nationalist movement has plenty of support in Europe (more often whimsical than militant, but it doesn't stop every second person from telling me this in France despite my anglo accent), and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with some reason it was OK in CONCACAF.

No, it's not. Your anecdote of what some people might have told you in France is meaningless.

 

[Derp Kassian]

I'm probably the only person that thinks this way, but I don't even care that we suck at soccer on the men's side. Soccer is the most common and popular sport on the planet. It doesn't seem like such a big deal to be great at soccer. That might be kind of backwards thinking, since on the flip side you don't want to be the best at something nobody cares about either, but I just can't bring myself to care about the fact Canada isn't competitive in soccer on the world stage. Let the oodles of other nations who excel at soccer duke it out while Canada continues to set the standard for hockey as well as some other winter sports. Canada is also a rising tennis nation, which, as a tennis player and fan, is very exciting for me.

it is backwards thinking. Pigheaded like Americans only caring about Football and Basketball because they are dominant.. Canadians do the same with hockey.

 

[nameless1]

FIFA and their conferences have waded into politics plenty of times, and do recognize not-fully-sovereign jurisdictions, for example the Palestinian team, recognizing a Taiwan team at the same time as a PRC one, Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands, Kosovo's membership in UEFA, and of course the longstanding precedent of allowing each of the UK's home countries to field their own side (I know it's grandfathered in, but Gilles Duceppe was one of the people who referred to it as precedent all the same). I know there are some considerations for overseas territories and the agreement of the 'parent' country, etc., but zanier things have happened, anyway.

The Quebec nationalist movement has plenty of support in Europe (more often whimsical than militant, but it doesn't stop every second person from telling me this in France despite my anglo accent), and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with some reason it was OK in CONCACAF.

Do not forget about a Hong Kong team too.

Regardless...
Quebec is a completely different situation from all your examples.
I doubt anything would come of it.

Plus...
On the off-chance that Fifa recognizes Quebec soccer as a separate entity...
Would anyone think that support from a sports organization...
No matter how powerful and rich it is...
Will be enough to legitimize the sovereign movement?
Anyone that uses that as a rallying point would be seen as a joke...
Quite frankly.

 

[nameless1]

I don't think we'll be as awful as he have been in the past over the next few years. The MLS teams and to a lesser extent the NASL teams in Canada are doing well in growing the talent pool up here. We also have several young players overseas playing in actually decent teams and putting in great performances (Aird with Rangers of the Scottish League and Petrasso with QPR in the premier league are just a few to be named here).

We might not make the world cup in 2018 but the 2022 world cup is a real possibility if we get a fair slice of luck.

2026 might be a possibility too...
If Canada wins the bid to host the World Cup.
Guaranteed spot for the win!


I do wonder about Aird.
He seems to be undecided about his allegiance...
And he can still represent either Scotland or Canada at the senior level.

 

[How Ya Drouin]

2026 might be a possibility too...
If Canada wins the bid to host the World Cup.
Guaranteed spot for the win!


I do wonder about Aird.
He seems to be undecided about his allegiance...
And he can still represent either Scotland or Canada at the senior level.

Last I heard Aird was going towards the CMNT:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...r-aird-confirms-plan-switch-allegiance-canmnt

 

[MikeGillisslashAVfan*]

Last I heard Aird was going towards the CMNT:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...r-aird-confirms-plan-switch-allegiance-canmnt

one small move in the right direction

 

[top_gun36]

longstanding precedent of allowing each of the UK's home countries to field their own side (I know it's grandfathered in, but Gilles Duceppe was one of the people who referred to it as precedent all the same).

You realize the FA each of the home nations predate the formation of FIFA right?
England - 1863
Scotland - 1873
Wales - 1876
Northern Ireland - 1880

FIFA - 1904 - and originally as a continental European league since at first the UK's FA wanted nothing to do with FIFA

but you cant have a global governing association without the "creators of association football"/4 oldest national FAs

 

[RandV]

it is backwards thinking. Pigheaded like Americans only caring about Football and Basketball because they are dominant.. Canadians do the same with hockey.

I don't think it's really a matter of being 'dominant'. In North America we're a bit more isolationists in our sporting culture, and typically we follow the sports that make up our top professional leagues. We still love international competition when it happens but day in day out our pro leagues come first. and we're like a century behind the rest of the world in having a good soccer league.

 

[Jyrki21]

You realize the FA each of the home nations predate the formation of FIFA right?

Yes, that's why I said they were grandfathered in. That's what that means.

 

[LolClarkson*]

We are currently ranked 112th in the world. Why do we suck so much? I don't buy the snow **** there are countries in western Europe that are quite good with similar climate(Switzerland 8th in the world, Sweden 27, etc).

Canada is too young of a country.

Why not cheer for your fatherland anyway ? Where is your grand parents from ?

 

[Sleeper]

This, this, this.

I feel like a broken record because I've been repeating this point myself. Canada won't be successful until our best players choose to represent Canada. Unfortunately that it proving to be more difficult than it should be. Of course, our best players won't play for Canada until we have real international success (i.e. making the World Cup).

Securing a CONCACAF spot in the World Cup really shouldn't be that difficult. If you look at World Cup qualifying throughout history, Mexico and USA have qualified 15 and 10 times respectively. After that there's a huge drop off, Costa Rica 4 times, Honduras 3 times, El Salvador twice, and then 5 countries, including Canada, who have qualified once. Basically I read that as the third and any subsequent spots are up for grabs.

Even then, the US and Mexico are beatable especially if you consider that Mexico barely squeaked into this World Cup.

Canada has work to do, but the pieces are there and we play in one of the weaker federations - qualifying in 2018 or 2022 is doable. If not, then we host 2026 and there we go. :p

sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people underrate how difficult it is and will be for Canada to qualify from CONCACAF. You're right that there are spots up for grab in CONCACAF. The problem is that there are quite a few good teams competing for those spots, and Canada is not one of them. It's not just 1. USA 2. Mexico, and then a hodge podge of teams that we can beat if we just try harder or something. There are probably 7-8 teams in CONCACAF legitimately better than us right now. Securing a CONCACAF spot in the World Cup requires a much better team than we have. Acquiring a much better team than we have is difficult. It will be very difficult for Canada to qualify for the World Cup in the future.

Look at what Mexico, the USA, and Costa Rica have accomplished so far in this World Cup. Do you think Canada is even close to that level? Well there's only 3 guaranteed spots. And that other CONCACAF team who qualified is just Honduras, a team that beat us 8-1 when we played them in a do-or-die game.

we're not close right now.

so yeah, we will not qualify in 2018. We will probably not qualify in 2022 either. Canadian men's soccer needs a long-term fix.

 

[xtra]

Man it's time to start giving out some Canadian citizenship a to players to boost our talent pool

 

[RandV]

Canada is too young of a country.

Why not cheer for your fatherland anyway ? Where is your grand parents from ?

Why does that matter? Not much difference from North to South America in that regard, and considering that colonial Europe drew the lines that makes Africa's borders same thing there.

If there was the will and motivation behind it Canada should at least be able to take 3rd spot in our group behind Mexico and USA.

 

[Sleeper]

Canada is too young of a country.

Why not cheer for your fatherland anyway ? Where is your grand parents from ?

This is also part of the problem. If even half of the Italian-Canadians and Portuguese-Canadians, and whatever other Euro-Canadian soccer fans who pack bars and buy jerseys every 4 years actually watched Canadian national team games maybe there would actually be some pressure on the Canadian Soccer Association to get better.

It makes me furious when I meet Canadian soccer fans who only follow Italy, Portugal, Greece, etc, and don't give a damn about the Canadian national team. Don't get me wrong, Canadians are more than welcome to cheer for Italia, but if you're a soccer fan, you should also support and pay attention to your REAL national team.

 

[How Ya Drouin]

Canada fell eight spots to No. 118, one spot below the Central African Republic and just above Lebanon in the new FIFA rankings.

 

[nameless1]

Man it's time to start giving out some Canadian citizenship a to players to boost our talent pool

Canada would still be unable to attract top talents that way.
Rules dictate that a player can only represent one country at the senior level in their lifetime...
So that is why countries will always cap promising players as soon as they are out of the junior level.
Those who Canada attracts will be second and third-tier players at best...
And most likely fourth and fifth-tier players.

Plus...
Most players want to compete for a World Cup...
And they are not likely to abandon their countries for Canada...
A country without much soccer/ football history...
And a perennial international loser...
Even if Canada is an attractive place to live.

The only way to improve in the standings is to overhaul the entire infrastructure...
From top to bottom...
And give the National Team and its players the necessary support.
That way...
The players will improve...
And players with ties to other countries have more incentive to stay.

 

[nameless1]

This is also part of the problem. If even half of the Italian-Canadians and Portuguese-Canadians, and whatever other Euro-Canadian soccer fans who pack bars and buy jerseys every 4 years actually watched Canadian national team games maybe there would actually be some pressure on the Canadian Soccer Association to get better.

It makes me furious when I meet Canadian soccer fans who only follow Italy, Portugal, Greece, etc, and don't give a damn about the Canadian national team. Don't get me wrong, Canadians are more than welcome to cheer for Italia, but if you're a soccer fan, you should also support and pay attention to your REAL national team.

The CSA has no plan...
And that is the main issue.

Even if more people watch...
The current leadership will just pat themselves on the back...
And call it a day.
They will not see it as more incentive to improve...
And give the team and infrastructure more support.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

the same argument can be made about basketball, NFL football and baseball. only a handful of canadians have ever made splashes in those respective sports.

most of us played soccer cuz it was affordable for our parents and that's about it...a new pair of cleats, league fees and a bucket of oranges every once in awhile.

the end.

Canadians have made significant contributions to those sports. Even moreso recently, Canada is churning out a number of NBA calibre prospects every year.

This is such a copout, Canadian Soccer can be fixed and it can develop a decent program but it needs to start from the top down.

From the mid 80s to mid 90s the team was respectable, they made the World Cup and were ranked in the top 45 a couple times. Instead of getting better it got worse and then eventually fell off a cliff. The key is to form a cohesive youth development system, this is where other countries progressed years ago. The CSA was stagnant and incompetent for too many reasons to get into now.

The majority of South American countries also don't have the financial means that Canada has to establish comprehensive national sports programs. And yet, many countries still excel at more sports than Soccer. You'll find countries like Argentina, Venezula, Uruguay, Colombia etc... doing well in Basketball, Baseball, Volleyball, Auto Racing.

You can be good at more than just winter sports and hockey. How else do you explain Germany, Sweden, USA, Russia, Switzerland etc...

I agree with the sentiment, but Sweden doesn't also excel in basketball and baseball, neither does Switzerland.

Our proximity to North America places soccer #3 or 4 for general interest, TV time etc, that has an impact for sure.

But as many posters have said, having Canada's best players, play for Canada makes a huge difference. Would also boost interest in youth in Canadian soccer.

The impact that Steve Nash, Larry Walker, Justin Morneau, Joey Votto, Andrew Wiggins etc all have on basketball and baseball in Canada could be duplicated by a soccer star for sure.

 

[MS]

But as many posters have said, having Canada's best players, play for Canada makes a huge difference. Would also boost interest in youth in Canadian soccer.

Painful seeing de Guzman and Begovic trot out for other teams at a World Cup.

On the other hand, when you look at how it's turned out for them, it's hard to fault them. And this will always be the problem. Playing for Canada is a logistical nightmare with little reward if you're a professional in Europe.