OT: City of Oakland sues NFL Raiders, "illegal cartel" NFL over move to Las Vegas

[Centrum Hockey]

If you change it you might offend the fan base if enough of them are attached to it. You'd have to poll fans on if they want a rebrand or not. Just because the old owner was a **** doesn't necessary mean the fans want to start over. They did get a new logo and uniforms under Ballmer.

The main branding is winning. With an aggressive owner, cap space and the LA market to attract free agents I think the Clippers are in really good shape. Not everyone can sign with the Lakers and not everyone wants to play with LeBron(word is Kawai don't and prefers the Clippers if he leaves Toronto).

When they play in there own arena they whould have a much better time not being compared with the lakers and the clippers chould attract events such as the all star games and the draft. The rams should not want the chargers playing in the same field as them if they win a championship there will be chargers fans in la that will be lifelong and never support the rams to this day there are still la raiders fans because of the title in the 80s

 

[MikeCubs]

there is also a 0 chance the Chargers return to San Diego, Mike, unless San Diego turns its stadium into a 2nd Hollywood Park

It's unlikely I agree but never say never. No one cares for the LA Chargers at this point. The current stadium San Diego stadium is way to crappy to renovate and is going to be torn down. San Diego did vote for a new $250M college stadium in November that seats 35,000 with the ability to expand to 50,000+ for a future NFL team.

Voters approve new stadium for San Diego St.

It would take a lot more $$$ to bring the stadium up to par and new ownership but if the don't catch on in LA who knows? One can hope at least a little bit.

 

[oknazevad]

The Chargers have been a really good team this year. And still can't sell out a 27,000 seat soccer stadium; 94% of capacity, good for dead last in attendance. Now, mind you, they'd be dead last regardless because of the size of the building, but to not sell out a small building like that? And the tickets that are sold have largely been to the opponents' fans.

Winning doesn't cure all, and it's painfully obvious that the Chargers have been a non-factor in LA. If reports are to be believed, the other owners didn't really want Spanos to move the team, but had to give them the out to block the Raiders, who they really didn't want to reward with LA. The projected increase in team value that Spanos was salivating over has not materialized, either. There's been rumors that owners are concerned that the Chargers in LA is a genuine failure. And it's not going to get better, as they are not owners of the new stadium. The Rams are. The same Rams who got there a year earlier, have been just as good on the field (even better, actually), and, most importantly, have decades of history in the city and whom a lot of people felt should never have left in the first place. If the Rams win the Super Bowl this year, which is a strong possibility, it pretty much buries the chance that the Chargers ever get traction in LA.

 

[MikeCubs]

When they play in there own arena they whould have a much better time not being compared with the lakers and the clippers chould attract events such as the all star games and the draft. The rams should not want the chargers playing in the same field as them if they win a championship there will be chargers fans in la that will be lifelong and never support the rams to this day there are still la raiders fans because of the title in the 80s

They will still be compared to the Lakers matter no where they play in LA and will always be the little brother. They will never be as rich as the Lakers and have as many fans plus they are 11 LA championships behind the Lakers. But that's ok. They still will make a lot of money and eventually given the LA market they probably will win a title here and there too.

The Rams didn't want any other team in LA. They were forced to by the other owners. The NFL wanted to take care of the loyal soldier Dean Spanos. If Kroenke said no to the Chargers he wasn't going to be allowed to move to LA.

You are probably right about the Chargers gaining lifelong fans with winning a championship and they have the roster to do it one of these years. Hopefully they will always choke in the playoffs like they did in San Diego.

 

[MikeCubs]

The Chargers have been a really good team this year. And still can't sell out a 27,000 seat soccer stadium; 94% of capacity, good for dead last in attendance. Now, mind you, they'd be dead last regardless because of the size of the building, but to not sell out a small building like that? And the tickets that are sold have largely been to the opponents' fans.

Winning doesn't cure all, and it's painfully obvious that the Chargers have been a non-factor in LA. If reports are to be believed, the other owners didn't really want Spanos to move the team, but had to give them the out to block the Raiders, who they really didn't want to reward with LA. The projected increase in team value that Spanos was salivating over has not materialized, either. There's been rumors that owners are concerned that the Chargers in LA is a genuine failure. And it's not going to get better, as they are not owners of the new stadium. The Rams are. The same Rams who got there a year earlier, have been just as good on the field (even better, actually), and, most importantly, have decades of history in the city and whom a lot of people felt should never have left in the first place. If the Rams win the Suoer Bowl this year, which is a strong possibility, it pretty much buries the chance that the Chargers ever get traction in LA.

Not that the chargers have many LA fans but they are sold out in LA the first 2 years despite the lower number announced that the 27,000 capacity.

the chargers are sold out in LA - Google Search (Ticket brokers bought most of them for out of town fans)

I'm not sure why some NFL teams announce a below capacity attendance when being sold out but some teams do this. The Packers with their endless waiting list always announce a 77,000 to 78,000 some attendance despite Lambeau Field seating 81,441.

The 2 New York teams and Pittsburgh also do this.

Maybe they don't count seats for player families to charities etc... or count luxury boxes separately. I don't know???

 

[Centrum Hockey]

A renovation plan is still in the works. For a while there was talking of putting in grass but that looks too expensive and it looks like it has been ruled out. They did add a dirt infield after the Argos left. Most of the renovation talk has focused on more group areas, redone concourses, kid areas, repairs to the roof and concrete etc... There's only so much you can to do make it baseball only. It was the circular last cookie cutter ever build so your never going to turn it into AT&T park/Camden Yards.

MLB has a strange process on how they judge parks they tried to fold the twins over the metrodome but have put up with Tampa/Oakland for years.

 

[Melrose Munch]

They will still be compared to the Lakers matter no where they play in LA and will always be the little brother. They will never be as rich as the Lakers and have as many fans plus they are 11 LA championships behind the Lakers. But that's ok. They still will make a lot of money and eventually given the LA market they probably will win a title here and there too.

The Rams didn't want any other team in LA. They were forced to by the other owners. The NFL wanted to take care of the loyal soldier Dean Spanos. If Kroenke said no to the Chargers he wasn't going to be allowed to move to LA.

You are probably right about the Chargers gaining lifelong fans with winning a championship and they have the roster to do it one of these years. Hopefully they will always choke in the playoffs like they did in San Diego.

NFL head office was against the Chargers moving to LA. They lost a super bowl site in San Diego because of the move.

 

[MikeCubs]

NFL head office was against the Chargers moving to LA. They lost a super bowl in San Diego because of the move.

The actual move yes. But they wanted Spanos to have the second option to

1. Use it against San Diego
2. Use it if he needed it
3. Keep the Raiders out

 

[Melrose Munch]

The actual move yes. But they wanted Spanos to have the second option to

1. Use it against San Diego
2. Use it if he needed it
3. Keep the Raiders out

True but they were not expecting him to actually move. Maybe they should have kicked in more from the NFL stadium fund.

 

[MikeCubs]

MLB has a strange process on how they judge parks they tried to fold the twins over the metrodome but put up with Tampa/Oakland for years.

The contraction thing was a hoax to use against the players for CBA talks at the time. It was never realistic.

MLB put up with Oakland and Tampa so long because of lack of other relocation options and they were waiting for the Raiders to leave Oakland so they could gain the Coliseum land to help pay for a ballpark at Howard Terminal. With Montreal and Portland finding ownership groups and working on parks MLB's patience will run out eventually on Tampa if they fail to get a new park.

 

[MikeCubs]

True but they were not expecting him to actually move. Maybe they should have kicked in more from the NFL stadium fund.

Absolutely. Goodall and the other owners were stunned. Jerry Jones was outright distraught according to rumors.

I know they don't want to set the precedent of privately financing or mostly privately financing a non big market stadium but they could have found ways around that. Like calling the extra money a "relocation fee" for the Rams being in LA so other smaller markets didn't get the idea to ask for privately funded stadium.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The contraction thing was a hoax to use against the players for CBA talks at the time. It was never realistic.

MLB put up with Oakland and Tampa so long because of lack of other relocation options and they were waiting for the Raiders to leave Oakland so they could gain the Coliseum land to help pay for a ballpark at Howard Terminal. With Montreal and Portland finding ownership groups and working on parks MLB's patience will run out eventually on Tampa if they fail to get a new park.

you do realize the Athletics have 1st rights to ORACLE, Mike

 

[MikeCubs]

you do realize the Athletics have 1st rights to ORACLE, Mike

Yes. The city and county still own it and all the Coliseum land. The A's have an exclusive agreement/1st dibs with the city to buy both. 2019 is the year for the A's to wrap up the purchase of both the Coliseum land and Howard Terminal from the port of Oakland.

 

[oknazevad]

The big reason MLB doesn't want to give up on the Rays is their local TV broadcasts actually get rather solid ratings, consistently averaging in the top half of the majors. Not only does this show that there are fans who'd be more likely to be attendees if the ballpark wasn't an already-outdated-when-it-opened dome that's hard to get to for most of the metro area, but also local media rights are a strong part of MLB's revenues, so the rating translate to more money for the club and the majors as a whole.

 

[aqib]

I know Baseball prefers single purpose venues however Rogere Center was built as a multi purpose. Is there a concrete plan to make it single purpose in the near future?

A lot of vague statements from Shapiro but nothing has been disclosed to the public.

 

[aqib]

Not sure 100 people is a strong barometer. In Manhattan, you can find a bar for every team in the NFL on Sundays. 2 years ago, I was walking along 2nd ave at about 2pm, walked by a Redskins bar with easily 200 people and then an Eagles bar with easily 200 people. I was in San Francisco in 2011 for Giants-Niners. Was walking from my hotel to a bus stop and passed a Steelers bar.

Yeah and you find bars for lots of NFL teams in Toronto. That's my point its not as much of a Bills town as people think.

 

[PCSPounder]

Yeah and you find bars for lots of NFL teams in Toronto. That's my point its not as much of a Bills town as people think.

Portland has multiple NFL team bars... which probably says something about the bars. Honestly, flip a coin and choose a killer beer. That doesn't mean Portland is an NFL city.

 

[aqib]

Portland has multiple NFL team bars... which probably says something about the bars. Honestly, flip a coin and choose a killer beer. That doesn't mean Portland is an NFL city.

My point wasn't whether Toronto is or isn't an NFL city. My point is that it shouldn't be labeled a "Bills Town"

 

[cutchemist42]

I'm always wary when people equate local TV ratings for why the Ray's should stay. I mean the Argos get decent TV ratings too and a better stadium got them nothing.

I'm not sumo confident as some about the correlation of TV ratings to bits in the seats. It's probably there somewhat.

 

[Summer Rose]

It was like that when they played in San Diego.

Chargers STHs back then figured out they could get up to half their season ticket plan costs back just re-selling for that one game. Plus they didn’t have to deal with the fights that would always break out around the stadium.

I felt this way in the late 90's/early 2000's being a Cardinals season ticket holder (by my dad's wallet since I was a teenager at the time). I also felt the same way being a Coyotes season ticket holder in the early 2010's. "I can dump my ticket for which I paid $40 to a visiting fan willing to pay $100? Where do I sign? I can go to most of the rest of the games this season, but if this is the case, I'll just stay home and watch the game on TV then."

 

[oknazevad]

I'm always wary when people equate local TV ratings for why the Ray's should stay. I mean the Argos get decent TV ratings too and a better stadium got them nothing.

I'm not sumo confident as some about the correlation of TV ratings to bits in the seats. It's probably there somewhat.

True, it doesn't always translate. But the other part, that local TV revenues are a big thing for MLB teams and that the Rays get good ratings holds true, even if a new ballpark doesn't result in increased attendance.

 

[TheLegend]

IF not in Glendale..... why not Tucson??

Could the Oakland Raiders end up playing in Tucson next season?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

IF not in Glendale..... why not Tucson??

Could the Oakland Raiders end up playing in Tucson next season?

Once again I come back to if that venue is good enough why not Sam Boyd?

 

[edog37]

When they play in there own arena they whould have a much better time not being compared with the lakers and the clippers chould attract events such as the all star games and the draft. The rams should not want the chargers playing in the same field as them if they win a championship there will be chargers fans in la that will be lifelong and never support the rams to this day there are still la raiders fans because of the title in the 80s

The Chargers have very little following in LA. Before last year, they spent only one other year in LA & that was their first year. Their stadium is largely filled with fans of other teams. The Rams have a LA following going back decades. Plus, the Chargers will be secondary tenants in the Rams stadium, so there is very little downside for the Rams here.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The Chargers have very little following in LA. Before last year, they spent only one other year in LA & that was their first year. Their stadium is largely filled with fans of other teams. The Rams have a LA following going back decades. Plus, the Chargers will be secondary tenants in the Rams stadium, so there is very little downside for the Rams here.

If Chargers won a Super Bowl, the equation might change a bit. And I think they are more likely to win this season than the Rams.