OT: Blue Bonnets Racetrack/Baseball stadium.

[Le Tricolore]

Do you think that baseball would work in Montreal? as for selling out the big O the NBA sold out in the bell centre and that does not mean Montreal is a basketball market so what is your point?

Baseball would work in Montreal if there's a downtown stadium and a halfway competent management team. They had neither of those last time around.

 

[AllanMTL46]

You'll pay for this anyway. Even if it's not done. Gov has a fixed budged for infrastructures and such. If the money doesn't go there it will go in other stupid projects. Gov will spend your money anyway. it will just spent it in even more stupid projects.

This is a myth that money not spent in infrastructures will go to health or education. Health is already using something like 50% of the approx 80 billions our gov spend every year. Pouring more money on health wont solve anything anyway.

Also the deficit is around 3 billions every year now. 400 millions is only 13% of that.

Now is not a good time to spend 400 millions on a stadium. But don't be fooled. You're money will be spent. It will be used to buy votes. It will be used to make friends rich. It will be used to create jobs via services we don't really need. It will be used to fool people that we are improving our health system while in fact we are just pouring more money on a system that would need to be rethink.

Your money will be spent and the debt will continue to grow with a new stadium or not. In the grand scheme of things a new stadium is just a drop in the ocean of bad gov spending, useless programs, corruption, ...

Great post

 

[George Lebay]

Do you think that baseball would work in Montreal? as for selling out the big O the NBA sold out in the bell centre and that does not mean Montreal is a basketball market so what is your point?

Baseball has a rich history in Montreal. Is it the case for NBA or even soccer ? I don't think so.

 

[Habs Icing]

Really ? what about the Impact crowds?

Did you take a look recently at an average MLB team's payroll. If you want to be a contender you're going to need a competitive payroll. This city has trouble keeping a CFL & a MSL team afloat now you want to bring those carpetbaggers from baseball. Good luck with that.

Also major league baseball soured me on their product last time they were here. They did almost everything possible to make sure the team failed and was moved.

Puck baseball, I say. I use to like baseball but now I prefer watching paint dry. About the same amount of excitement and way less expensive.

 

[TRG]

Right. Baseball is dead. The Olympic stadium will probably be empty again this year for the two Reds-Jays games next april. Just like last years' games.

Two games. Events, just like Montrealers like. Filling the stadium for two games and having decent crowds for 81 games is a little different.

 

[Subban signed e5]

Baseball would work in Montreal if there's a downtown stadium and a halfway competent management team. They had neither of those last time around.

i agree but will the fans stick around if the team is terrible?

 

[JLP]

Montreal and baseball are like orange juice and toothpaste

 

[ThaDevilGirl]

Montreal and baseball are like orange juice and toothpaste

Never thought about it this way...

 

[LaP]

Do you think that baseball would work in Montreal?

I think so.

This said baseball will never work in the Olympic Stadium. Our summers are short and the stadium needs a retractable roof. Also the team would need a strong owner. One who is willing to take a risk. Like Molson, Quebecor, Bell etc. It will not work with a consortium of smaller owners cause when it will be the time to take a risk and sign a big UFA there will always be a bunch in the group not willing to take it.

Until a strong owner shows interest no reason to build a new stadium. And anyway right now is not a good time there's more important things to do in Montréal than building a new stadium.

A lot of things have changed in the last 15 years. RDS is not alone anymore. The team would get a far better deal because of the competition between TVA Sport and RDS. Revenue sharing in baseball is better now. Still not as good as a salary cap but it's easier for the teams in small market now than it was back when the expos left. The Canadian $ is worth more. Yes it felt a lot in the last 2-3 months but it's still far higher than it was back then. The $ back then was around 0.66 USD (the lowest point was around 0.61). Even at 80 it is still lot better than it was back then. Anything over 0.75 is significantly better than before. Will it go back to what it was in the 90ies and beginning of 2000? Maybe who knows but for now it's more manageable. Finally Quebecers spend more than they used to back then. The parents of x and y generations did not like to spend money on entertainment as much as the adults do today. We don't like to store money in our socks or under our bed

 

[George Lebay]

Two games. Events, just like Montrealers like. Filling the stadium for two games and having decent crowds for 81 games is a little different.

Is the Impact-Pachuca game an event ?

 

[ThaDevilGirl]

Is the Impact-Pachuca game an event ?

It should but it won't. Casual fans are skeptical of the Impact given the horrible season they just had and I can't blame them. I hope the Impact wins in Mexico so the return game has a good turnout. If somehow they make it to the semi-final I expect them to draw bigger crowds.

 

[TRG]

Is the Impact-Pachuca game an event ?

It should, it's a local team playing at a big stage.

 

[uiCk]

If its profitable, Montreal would already have a team. Given that they need GOV money and tax cuts to build a new team in Montreal, it is clear-cut indication of a potential team's non profitability (And the general fact that subsidizing pro sports is always terrible idea)
Quebec & Canada are years away economically to be able to throw money away by subsidizing a professional sports team (We got education/healthcare to take care of first, infrastructures and most importantly build on diversifying Canadas export industry). Both in terms of not having money to throw around at this point in time and fact that Canadian dollar is weak and will be weak for another 1-2 years minimum (most likely much longer)

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Really ? what about the Impact crowds?

Average salary of an MLB player 4 million $ a year
Average salary of an MLS player $141,903.13 in 2013 (Higgest paid player is 4 million dollars)

Average Expos tickets in the 90s were about 15-20$
Average Impact tickets last year, about 30-40$? (I am not sure, paid about 25$ and moved closer to my friends who had season tickets).

How much public spending was used on Saputo Stadium? I think 23 million of 40 million.

How much public spending on a new MLB stadium? 100s of millions of $?

Seriously, please do some math.

I used to love the expos, I refuse to watch other teams in baseball. I went to 10-15 games a year in the last few years of the team. I would support them, but I really do not see the expos thriving in Montreal ever again, MLB cost way too much.

 

[LeHab]

If owners are so confident about success of a new team in Montreal, why don't they finance a new stadium? They want to own the team which is very likely to grow in value no matter where it plays while deflecting risks associated with potential failure to the city (can't move a stadium). I support tax exemption and perhaps other incentives but ultimately I want some assurance that the owners are tied to the city.

 

[AntonCH]

Did I say anything about the Impact? But since you bring this up... They have some trouble selling tickets. But they still have a better average than the Expos had in their last years.

But anyway, I don't think it's related. Baseball died at a time it didn't have competition from soccer and when the Als were fairly new.

Als were here before the Expos
just saying................

 

[Runner77]

Is the Impact-Pachuca game an event ?

The Limp Act's best event is the massive non-renewal of season tickets. They have no lessons to give, let alone their fans crapping on baseball. At least the type of baseball being sought for Montreal is the real deal, not some second rate version.

 

[ThaDevilGirl]

The Limp Act's best event is the massive non-renewal of season tickets. They have no lessons to give, let alone their fans crapping on baseball. At least the type of baseball being sought for Montreal is the real deal, not some second rate version.

And we let the real deal get away.


Let's face it, there is no way Montreal gets an MLB team until they change the CBA to add a salary cap. And that is just one hurdle.

 

[TRG]

Als were here before the Expos
just saying................

I know but they left for a while. That's what I meant.

The Limp Act's best event is the massive non-renewal of season tickets. They have no lessons to give, let alone their fans crapping on baseball. At least the type of baseball being sought for Montreal is the real deal, not some second rate version.

First, if I didn't have an MLS logo as an avy, the Impact wouldn't even be mentioned in this thread but whatever. I didn't give any lesson to anyone. Fact is, we lost our MLB franchise because we couldn't support it, be it by filling the stadium or building a new one. People preferred abandoning their team instead of trying to make things change. If anyone did the same thing to the Habs that they did to the Expos, we'd be doing everything to run these people out of town.

Also, the economics are fairly different. MLB teams need massive money to run. Not many teams are successful with small payrolls. Also, it's 81 games, not 42, not 16, not 8... That's a lot of tickets to sell and let's not hide it, our economy is not at his best. Is there space for another sport club without one of the others dying? Yeah, I'm not sure. And I'm not sure spending on a sports franchise and stadium would be well seen from a political standpoint.

As for first vs second rate product, soccer is the only sport between the five major leagues in North America that is truly a worldwide sport. Dismissing it because it's not the best product on earth is a bit stupid. By thinking that, we'll never become decent at the international stage. Meanwhile, this league had plenty of players present at the WC and the US has been improving ever since they launched their own league. So yeah, it's a matter of time.

It's not like you can have European competitions here. We need to grow ours and make them better.

 

[Runner77]

First, if I didn't have an MLS logo as an avy, the Impact wouldn't even be mentioned in this thread but whatever. I didn't give any lesson to anyone.

Says the guy whose first post in this thread is this little dropping:

lol baseball

Fact is, we lost our MLB franchise because we couldn't support it, be it by filling the stadium or building a new one. People preferred abandoning their team instead of trying to make things change. If anyone did the same thing to the Habs that they did to the Expos, we'd be doing everything to run these people out of town.

I don't know how closely you followed baseball, but your account is the furthest thing from what really happened. You can't compete when your ownership conducts firesales year in and year out. Ownership did not want to pay up and at the same time, the league divvied up too little of their revenues. Nothing to do with Montreal fans, who have a long history with the sport and who have had several seasons of very high attendance, which should not be dismissed outright on account of how the puppet ownership of the last years of the franchise did not have the best interests of the fan base at heart.

Also, the economics are fairly different. MLB teams need massive money to run. Not many teams are successful with small payrolls. Also, it's 81 games, not 42, not 16, not 8... That's a lot of tickets to sell and let's not hide it, our economy is not at his best. Is there space for another sport club without one of the others dying? Yeah, I'm not sure. And I'm not sure spending on a sports franchise and stadium would be well seen from a political standpoint.

Baseball sells regardless of their 81 games. And small payrolls are no longer the norm with a much better revenue redistribution. Things have changed considerably since the Expos have left. And yes there is space for all types of fans -- Montreal now has two 24-hour sports stations, there is air time to be filled and money to pay up, especially over the summer months, which are traditionally the most tv-starved months in a rabid hockey market.

As for first vs second rate product, soccer is the only sport between the five major leagues in North America that is truly a worldwide sport.

Irrelevant. Fans are not getting the best product. The Limp Act and the Als are just second rate leagues that try to sell a product that is largely inferior to the best leagues. Soccer shouldn't even be mentioned with the 4 major north american sports, it probably ranks behind bowling in terms of fan viewership. Who wants to see mostly washed up vets or low-level players who can't make it elsewhere, entering the league for a paycheque.

Dismissing it because it's not the best product on earth is a bit stupid.

Grow up. Really?

By thinking that, we'll never become decent at the international stage. Meanwhile, this league had plenty of players present at the WC and the US has been improving ever since they launched their own league. So yeah, it's a matter of time.

Matter of time? Matter of a few decades. Soccer is only popular amongst kids mostly and their parents who are reveling into the idea of a sport that costs very little to practice. There are no real soccer roots here. The Limp Act's owner crying crocodile tears about the hordes of fans bailing, says a lot.

It's not like you can have European competitions here. We need to grow ours and make them better.

Good for you if you think it can grow. Enjoy. I'm not spending a cent on Saputo and his team. However, I will be a season ticket holder whenever baseball returns.

 

[ThaDevilGirl]

Alright boys, this is not about baseball vs soccer.

 

[Le Tricolore]

And we let the real deal get away.


Let's face it, there is no way Montreal gets an MLB team until they change the CBA to add a salary cap. And that is just one hurdle.

Baseball won't get a cap any time soon. Montreal could support a team. They won't be spending like the Red Sox, Dodgers or Yankees, but you don't have to.

 

[ThaDevilGirl]

Baseball won't get a cap any time soon. Montreal could support a team. They won't be spending like the Red Sox, Dodgers or Yankees, but you don't have to.

True, you don't have do. If only there was an owner like the Molson family willing to spend the money. Having a consortium owning a team may be asking for trouble. We've seen it before.

 

[George Lebay]

Says the guy whose first post in this thread is this little dropping:






I don't know how closely you followed baseball, but your account is the furthest thing from what really happened. You can't compete when your ownership conducts firesales year in and year out. Ownership did not want to pay up and at the same time, the league divvied up too little of their revenues. Nothing to do with Montreal fans, who have a long history with the sport and who have had several seasons of very high attendance, which should not be dismissed outright on account of how the puppet ownership of the last years of the franchise did not have the best interests of the fan base at heart.



Baseball sells regardless of their 81 games. And small payrolls are no longer the norm with a much better revenue redistribution. Things have changed considerably since the Expos have left. And yes there is space for all types of fans -- Montreal now has two 24-hour sports stations, there is air time to be filled and money to pay up, especially over the summer months, which are traditionally the most tv-starved months in a rabid hockey market.



Irrelevant. Fans are not getting the best product. The Limp Act and the Als are just second rate leagues that try to sell a product that is largely inferior to the best leagues. Soccer shouldn't even be mentioned with the 4 major north american sports, it probably ranks behind bowling in terms of fan viewership. Who wants to see mostly washed up vets or low-level players who can't make it elsewhere, entering the league for a paycheque.



Grow up. Really?



Matter of time? Matter of a few decades. Soccer is only popular amongst kids mostly and their parents who are reveling into the idea of a sport that costs very little to practice. There are no real soccer roots here. The Limp Act's owner crying crocodile tears about the hordes of fans bailing, says a lot.



Good for you if you think it can grow. Enjoy. I'm not spending a cent on Saputo and his team. However, I will be a season ticket holder whenever baseball returns.

 

[HabsByTheBay]

True, you don't have do. If only there was an owner like the Molson family willing to spend the money. Having a consortium owning a team may be asking for trouble. We've seen it before.

The difference is it isn't a consortium to keep the team from moving made up of disinterested parties.

The San Francisco Giants have been owned by a consortium since 1993. That's worked out pretty well - Barry Bonds, beautiful new stadium, 4 pennants, 3 World Series.