Movies: Oscars revamping, adding "Achievement in Popular Film" category

[EON]

Dumb idea.

Just nominate a "popular" film for best picture if it's deserving (which there have been many examples of). I doubt the general "popcorn" audience group is going to tune into the Oscars now because of this. They're probably going to lose more audience members than they gain.

 

[Shareefruck]

Sidetrack again, but....

I've always disliked the stigmatization of terms like 'snob' or that attitude in general. Snobbery is only a bad thing if it's used to harm other people or if it's manipulated as a tool to feed one's own ego. Neither one has to be the case. We all have opinions about things that we care about that we believe has truth to them, and should behave as such.

Particularly when it comes to mediums like movies, videogames, music, or whatever, that are only really worthwhile/valuable when they're really good, and are otherwise kind of a soul-sucking time-wasters that serve no necessary purpose other than keeping us occupied, I think that we should all be encouraged to be opinionated snobs about them, personally, and allow opposing hard-headed opinions to clash. We should thumb our nose down at certain things that we think lack merit and are just taking up space, until convinced otherwise. It isn't such a terrible thing.

 

[Osprey]

I've always disliked the stigmatization of terms like 'snob' or that attitude in general. Snobbery is only a bad thing if it's used to harm other people or if it's manipulated as a tool to feed one's own ego. Neither one has to be the case. We all have opinions about things that we care about that we believe has truth to them, and should behave as such.

Particularly when it comes to mediums like movies, videogames, music, or whatever, that are only really worthwhile/valuable when they're really good, and are otherwise kind of a soul-sucking time-wasters that serve no necessary purpose other than keeping us occupied, I think that we should all be encouraged to be opinionated snobs about them, personally, and allow opposing hard-headed opinions to clash. We should thumb our nose down at certain things that we think lack merit and are just taking up space, until convinced otherwise. It isn't such a terrible thing.

Snobbery isn't being opinionated and looking down on things that we think are bad or wrong. It's looking down on people who believe differently, because we feel that we're smarter and/or have better taste. By definition, it's being condescending with an air of superiority. At its simplest, it's the difference between calling an idea dumb and calling a person dumb for supporting it. Having very strong beliefs doesn't make you a snob. It matters completely how you express them. If you do so by judging and putting down others, so that you can feel intellectually or morally superior, then you fit the definition.

 

[Shareefruck]

Snobbery isn't being opinionated and looking down on things that we think are bad or wrong. It's looking down on the people who believe differently, because we feel that we're smarter and/or have better taste. By definition, it's being condescending with an air of superiority. At its simplest, it's the difference between calling an idea dumb and calling people dumb for supporting it. Having very strong beliefs doesn't make you a snob. It matters completely how you express them. If you do so by judging and putting down others, so that you can feel superior (ex. intellectually or morally), then you fit the definition.

By strict definition sure, but people don't really stick to that restriction when using the term. An extra leap is usually taken to assume that snobbiness (or possessiveness/elitism/arrogance/whatever you want to call it) about thinking that something is superior automatically implies snobbiness that people who think so are superior.

With the Oscars for example, you could feasibly observe that the Oscars has a history of thumbing its nose down at major blockbusters and superhero movies when it comes to what the best picture is, but there isn't really anything beyond that that suggests superiority over the people who feel otherwise, yet here we are anyways hearing that word thrown around.

My point is that whatever the core of that resentment is, whether it's technically accurate to call it snobbery or not, seems invalid to me.

I think BonMorrison's post seems to be using the term similarly.

 

[Osprey]

By strict definition sure, but people don't really stick to that restriction when using the term. An extra leap is usually taken to assume that snobbiness (or possessiveness/elitism/arrogance/whatever you want to call it) about thinking that something is superior automatically implies snobbiness that people who think so are superior.

With the Oscars for example, you could feasibly observe that the Oscars has a history of thumbing its nose down at major blockbusters and superhero movies when it comes to what the best picture is, but there isn't really anything beyond that that suggests superiority over the people who feel otherwise, yet here we are anyways hearing that word thrown around.

My point is that whatever the core of that resentment is, whether it's technically accurate to call it snobbery or not, seems invalid to me.

I think BonMorrison's post seems to be using the term similarly.

I hear what you're saying, but you seem to be arguing that it's not necessarily a bad thing to be a snob because people often misuse the term by applying it to behavior that isn't bad. We can't just change the definition because people misuse it. After all, they misuse it because it has a well-earned stigma. Arrogance is similarly stigmatized, but the fact that some people accuse others of it when they merely have confidence doesn't mean that arrogance gets a bad rap. It's still bad to be arrogant, just as it's still bad to be a snob. If people accuse the Academy of snobbery, it's better to challenge them on their use of the term than accept it and give all real snobs an excuse to think that being a snob is OK, IMO. When you allow terms to become watered down, they lose their potency.

 

[Shareefruck]

I hear what you're saying, but you seem to be arguing that it's not necessarily a bad thing to be a snob because people often misuse the term by applying it to behavior that isn't bad. We can't just change the definition because people misuse it. After all, they misuse it because it has a well-earned stigma. Arrogance is similarly stigmatized, but the fact that some people accuse others of it when they merely have confidence doesn't mean that arrogance gets a bad rap. It's still bad to be arrogant, just as it's still bad to be a snob. If people accuse the Academy of snobbery, it's better to challenge them on their use of the term than accept it and give all real snobs an excuse to think that being a snob is OK, IMO. When you allow terms to become watered down, they lose their potency.

I can concede to that.

I agree that it's a bad thing to be a snob if we're following the strictest definition (which I wasn't). I just think that it's a good thing to be what the phrase tends to be used to communicate.

Feel free to replace the term "snob" with whatever more accurate term can be used to describe the attitude that I'm defending but that similarly draws resentment from people.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Animation movies and blockbuster or action movies should have a shot at the best picture category. I want the best picture to be the best movie. That's it. Last year Coco and Logan should have been in the best picture over the Post or Phantom thread. Phantom thread has one of the worse ending of all time. It was a real insult to the intelligence of the public.

The best movies should battle against the best movies if there is no Indy movie good enough to be nominated don't nominated one, same for a movie with a racial minority casting or an action movie. I don't want the Oscar to be politically correct, I want the best movies to get the nomination they deserve.

I like Black Panther, that movie has a big place in history for the black community but as a movie, is it really better than Deadpool 2 or Avengers: Infinity War, I don't know.

 

[Shareefruck]

Agreed that any type of movie should have a shot at the best picture category, but disagree that any recent blockbuster/action movie has been deserving of it. I think that Logan, Deadpool, or Infinity War getting consideration for something like that would be a joke.

They need to at least reach Mad Max levels of interest/impressiveness to warrant that kind of consideration, which the Marvel superhero movies haven't come close to yet, in my opinion.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I thought the whole idea to extend the nominations to 10 was to include box office successes. Then after a year that failed and now we have this terrible idea. Just admit the academy is afraid to nominate box office success films in Best Picture categories and be done with it. There is no reason why a film like Black Panther or Avengers Infinity War should not be nominated for Best Picture this year, in a perfect world at least.

 

[Ralph Spoilsport]

I thought the Best Picture Oscar WAS for the best popular film. Does anyone really think that keenly observed Romanian comedy you saw at the festival last year has any chance at winning the big prize? Of course not.

So is this a category for Academy voters to decide or is there going to be some kind of "people's choice" online vote? This may not be the worst idea if done right. The Toronto Film Festival's most prestigious prize is the people's choice award. Let the public decide the best popular film. The people know!

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I'm trying to decide if this is more about Disney wanting Oscars for their movies or for the Oscars desperately trying to be relevant in the most elitist fashion possible.

And they do this before they make an Oscar for best stunt performance/coordination? Or for best casting?

 

[Osprey]

I thought the Best Picture Oscar WAS for the best popular film. Does anyone really think that keenly observed Romanian comedy you saw at the festival last year has any chance at winning the big prize? Of course not.

To be eligible for Best Picture, a film needs only to be in US theaters for at least 7 consecutive days. That's really a very low bar that even the independent, art house films made on shoestring budgets can generally pull off, though. Technically, a film may not even need to sell a single ticket to be eligible, just as long as a theater offers it, regardless. "Popular," as used in the award title, is meant to refer to a much higher bar. We don't know what the Academy's criteria will be, but it could be that the film had to have been in a sufficiently large number of theaters (ex. over 1000), released nationwide, made a profit, grossed at least a certain amount (ex. $100M) or any combination of those.

So is this a category for Academy voters to decide or is there going to be some kind of "people's choice" online vote? This may not be the worst idea if done right. The Toronto Film Festival's most prestigious prize is the people's choice award. Let the public decide the best popular film. The people know!

It'll surely be a category for Academy voters to decide. Academy membership is by invitation only to eligible people who work in and are respected in the industry and amounts to only 8,000 individuals whose names are generally kept private. It's highly doubtful that such an organization would open up voting to the general public.

My guess is that it'll be similar to other "Achievement" awards that have been handed out over the Academy's history. For example, Toy Story received an achievement award for the first full-length computer animated film and people receive Lifetime Achievement awards every now and then. In that way, it's probably not going to do much to quell Best Picture controversies and is liable to be regarded as rather meaningless by the general public, IMO.

 

[holy]

Award shows are for nerds anyways. I'd recommend picking up a hobby to those upset. Hope the ratings keep plummeting.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I like how offended people are with this category as if the Oscars are sacred and the voting legitimate to begin with. Lol

 

[ArchAngel55]

Participation trophy.

 

[Shareefruck]

I like how offended people are with this category as if the Oscars are sacred and the voting legitimate to begin with. Lol

Doesn't matter if it was ever legitimate to begin with. It's good to criticize the stupidity of when stupid things do things that are stupider than they usually are.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Award shows are for nerds anyways. I'd recommend picking up a hobby to those upset. Hope the ratings keep plummeting.

You're so cool.

 

[glovesave_35]

Rather than partitioning off these films into their own narrow box, why not encourage the voters to think more broadly about what "Best Picture" means? It's not like Action, Fantasy, Sci-Fi, etc. films haven't been nominated in the past, if they are good enough in an overall sense.

Why do the voters need to think more broadly about what Best Picture means? Like you said, films from various genres have been nominated for Best Picture in the past.

Anyways, I think the Popular Film award is a terrible idea. Popular films get to make tons of money. That is the reward.

 

[Jussi]

I can't watch the Oscars anymore if they become popular. They're dead to me then.

 

[holy]

You're so cool.

⚠ Nerd Alert ⚠

 

[Do Make Say Think]

And regarding The Shape of Water, I wouldn't lump it into the pretentious box at all. It's bursting with genre — it's a fairy tale, monster movie, spy flick with a few song-and-dance numbers thrown in. While some like to paint it with the typical "Oscar bait" shrug off, it really isn't. There's a weird, gross, bizarre movie just below that glossy love story surface.

If that movie had been made by anyone else it wouldn't have won best picture. I was actually a little sad to see Del Toro actually care about what they think of him.

Great movie for sure. Nowhere near the best movie of the year. Lifetime achievement awards suck.

 

[kihei]

I can't watch the Oscars anymore if they become popular. They're dead to me then.

I admit, old adversary, that made me smile.

 

[glovesave_35]

Agreed that any type of movie should have a shot at the best picture category, but disagree that any recent blockbuster/action movie has been deserving of it. I think that Logan, Deadpool, or Infinity War getting consideration for something like that would be a joke.

They need to at least reach Mad Max levels of interest/impressiveness to warrant that kind of consideration, which the Marvel superhero movies haven't come close to yet, in my opinion.

Since you mentioned it, what is so good about Mad Max? I am dumbfounded that this movie has drawn such rave reviews. There isn't a bigger Tom Hardy fan than me, but this movie was just awful in my opinion.

 

[Shareefruck]

Since you mentioned it, what is so good about Mad Max? I am dumbfounded that this movie has drawn such rave reviews. There isn't a bigger Tom Hardy fan than me, but this movie was just awful in my opinion.

I actually don't particularly like Mad Max, and I find it incredibly overrated as a movie, but it's at least undeniably an impressive feat in aesthetics, vision, and visual choreography that I can see being somewhat deserving of critical accolades, which is more than I can say about the never-ending stream of Marvel movies that always feel like bland, opportunistic, and formulaic commercial diversions **** out of a factory. The latter are the last things that should be getting best picture nominations.

 

[glovesave_35]

I actually don't particularly like Mad Max, and I find it incredibly overrated as a movie, but it's at least undeniably an impressive feat in aesthetics, vision, and visual choreography that I can see being somewhat deserving of critical accolades, which is more than I can say about the never-ending stream of Marvel movies that always feel like bland, opportunistic, and formulaic commercial diversions **** out of a factory. The latter are the last things that should be getting best picture nominations.

I only saw the part with the chase in the desert. Maybe I will have to go back and watch the rest.