Orr-Bieksa vs. Lidstrom-Karlsson

[GFS]

Which top pairing would you rather have?

Bobby Orr - Kevin Bieksa

or

Nicklas Lidstrom - Erik Karlsson

Click to read more...

 

[Ainec]

The pair with Kevin

 

[bobholly39]

I'd take Orr. Really amazing, I wouldn't pass him up.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Super man punch and the kid named Bobby.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Kevin Bieksa is on a different tier from the rest of these bums.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Weird pairings.

Orr is #1, Lidstrom is #2 or #3, Karlsson is probably top 20, and who is Bieksa?

 

[AD1066]

Pre-injury Karlsson, it's him and Lidstrom no contest.

 

[nilssont]

Bieksas biggest issue (in his time as a Duck) was that he thought he was as good as Bobby Orr and got himself into trouble over and over again

So many bad memories

 

[tarheelhockey]

The only way this could lean toward Orr is if we're talking about current Karlsson, but not sure why we would do that with only Karlsson.

 

[Zach716]

The only way this could lean toward Orr is if we're talking about current Karlsson, but not sure why we would do that with only Karlsson.

Near ppg current Karlsson?

 

[nowhereman]

Orr is the best blueliner in history and by quite an obvious margin over the second best defender on this list (Lidstrom, a top 4-6 defender of all time). But would he be able to dominate today's game to the extent that it would make up the difference between Karlsson (a top 3-5 player in the NHL in his prime) and Bieksa (a solid #2/3D on a contender in his prime). I'm not so sure.

Voted Lidstrom/Karlsson, as there's less guessing there.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Near ppg current Karlsson?

Yes, the one who's currently 12th in defenseman PPG.

 

[CanadienShark]

Karlsson at his peak with Lidstrom would be absurd. That pairing by a longshot.

Orr
Lidstrom

Karlsson





Not enough space, but imagine 100 more spaces...

Bieksa

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Lidstrom and Karlsson pretty easily. No disrespect to Bieksa, who had a long career, but this is a comparison against the best in the game.

The strength of a team with two number one d-men, who are the best, is better than one number one d-man, even if he is the best ever, and a guy who was pretty good top 4 guy when he had the right coach.

You could probably play Lidstrom and Karlsson together. You could give them 30 minutes each. One guy goes down, the other picks up the slack. Orr goes down and your team is left with Bieksa up shit creek without a paddle.

 

[AD1066]

I've been trying to think which partner for Orr would lead to the most balanced result in the poll. Someone with less offensive ability than both Lidstrom and Karlsson but with a very strong defensive game. Would Chara tip the scales too much? About a 50 point guy at his peak, but a shutdown monster.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I've been trying to think which partner for Orr would lead to the most balanced result in the poll. Someone with less offensive ability than both Lidstrom and Karlsson but with a very strong defensive game. Would Chara tip the scales too much? About a 50 point guy at his peak, but a shutdown monster.

Langway.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I've been trying to think which partner for Orr would lead to the most balanced result in the poll. Someone with less offensive ability than both Lidstrom and Karlsson but with a very strong defensive game. Would Chara tip the scales too much? About a 50 point guy at his peak, but a shutdown monster.

You're looking at two of the three best all-time.

To balance the reasonably small edge that Orr has over Lidstrom, you need a player not quite as good as Karlsson, so somewhere in the high twenties. Someone like Keith, MacInnes, Blake, Chara, or Salming?

 

[Thenameless]

Orr-Bieksa for a less obvious reason.

If all four guys are 18, and just about to come into the league, I think Bieksa's development curve would be a lot better than what it was in Vancouver. Now, he's playing with the all-time best ever.

I know that Messier, Coffey, Anderson, and Kurri were all great players in their own right, but I'm also sure that their careers were elevated because they played with Gretzky. If Bieksa gets to start on the top pairing with Orr throughout his career, I'm sure his career looks very different.

 

[nowhereman]

You're looking at two of the three best all-time.

To balance the reasonably small edge that Orr has over Lidstrom, you need a player not quite as good as Karlsson, so somewhere in the high twenties. Someone like Keith, MacInnes, Blake, Chara, or Salming?

The difference between Orr and Lidstrom is by no means small. Orr's best offensive seasons, era-adjusted, are roughly in the 115-130 point rage. This is a guy who beat out the likes of Esposito, Lafleur, Mikita, Clarke, Dionne, and Mahovalich in the scoring race and almost doubled the production of top 5-10 defenseman of all time Denis Potvin in his second Art Ross win. All this while being the best defensive defenseman in the game. It takes a player of Bieksa's level to make this close (though I voted for Lidstrom and Karlsson).

 

[Siludin]

Bieksa helps protect Orr's knees.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

You're looking at two of the three best all-time.

To balance the reasonably small edge that Orr has over Lidstrom, you need a player not quite as good as Karlsson, so somewhere in the high twenties. Someone like Keith, MacInnes, Blake, Chara, or Salming?

Orr is in a different tier compared to Lidstrom. Karlsson isn't that much better than any of those players, especially when we look at career value and how Karlsson fell off a cliff. Just using Chara for a quick reference, he has more Norris nominations than Karlsson (6-4), double the top 5 finishes (8-4) and double the top 10 finishes (10-5).

 

[chauron]

I’ll rather have two phenomenal talents than just one, even if he’s on top of the others by large margin.

Hockey is teamwork, thus Lidas-Karlsson.
I might take Orr-Chara thought

 

[Cornwallace]

Only one player in this poll has one punch KO'd Sergei Federov's brother

 

[lawrence]

like asking me would I rather have Mcdavid and Horvat or Matthews and Eichel.

Of course I take Orr man.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The difference between Orr and Lidstrom is by no means small. Orr's best offensive seasons, era-adjusted, are roughly in the 115-130 point rage. This is a guy who beat out the likes of Esposito, Lafleur, Mikita, Clarke, Dionne, and Mahovalich in the scoring race and almost doubled the production of top 5-10 defenseman of all time Denis Potvin in his second Art Ross win. All this while being the best defensive defenseman in the game. It takes a player of Bieksa's level to make this close (though I voted for Lidstrom and Karlsson).

I did say "relatively small", as in "smaller than the difference between Karlsson and Bieksa".

Considering that the voting is almost 4:1, I think a lot of people are agreeing with me. So I offered a few names that I thought might make the poll closer.

(I'm regularly surprised at how many people feel they have to jump to Orr's defence (sorry) at even the slightest perception of criticism. It's as though they didn't really believe he was the best, and ate trying to convince themselves.)