Orpik's role
- Thread starter Alexander the Gr8
- Start date
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
I see the second pairing as unbreakable. Alzner and Niskanen have been together every game for the past 2 years, and I think they're a perfect match. Sure, I'll add the 2nd pairing option.
Hivemind
We're Touched
Alzner-Carlson spent a lot more time together than Alzner-Niskanen, yet they were broken up eventually.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
Sure, but it made our defense more balanced to split them up. Alzner-Niskanen is likely to stay together no matter what happens, but I can't edit the poll to include the 2nd pairing option.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
The top 2 pairs are interchangeable. I rank the Carlson pair higher because it provides most of the offensive punch. So you'd vote top pair in this case.
CapitalsCupReality
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I think they'll start him on the 3rd pair, hoping that others will step up. After that fails, he'll be right back in his top-4 role IMO.
txpd
Registered User
Alzner Niskanen has played every game together since Niskanen arrived. That wont change. I think the team would like to see Orlov get some top 4 minutes this season, but I take that to mean the will get some fill in minutes there.
Alzner-Niskanen
Orpik-Carlson
Schmidt-Orlov
Chorney.
Carlson on pp1
Niskanen on pp2
the top 2 pair are the pk pairs with Schmidt covering for any top 4 d getting a penalty.
Alzner-Niskanen
Orpik-Carlson
Schmidt-Orlov
Chorney.
Carlson on pp1
Niskanen on pp2
the top 2 pair are the pk pairs with Schmidt covering for any top 4 d getting a penalty.
HecticGlow
Registered User
Alzner-Niskanen is one of the old solid, consistent good things this team has. Breaking them up is undesirable to say the least.
Pairing Orlov and Carlson handicaps Carlson (who has to become more defensively responsible), and places most of your offense in that one pair at a cost to your overall D-corps.
Without Orlov you would have:
Alzner-Niskanen
Schmidt-Carlson
Orpik-Chorney
...which aren't horrible pairs. I don't see a way to include Orlov though without having Schmidt as his responsible partner.
Pairing Orlov and Carlson handicaps Carlson (who has to become more defensively responsible), and places most of your offense in that one pair at a cost to your overall D-corps.
Without Orlov you would have:
Alzner-Niskanen
Schmidt-Carlson
Orpik-Chorney
...which aren't horrible pairs. I don't see a way to include Orlov though without having Schmidt as his responsible partner.
txpd
Registered User
It think its possible that what we see is what we saw late last season when they split Orpik and Carlson with Orlov and Schmidt. Late in games with a lead and late in periods you would see Orpik and Carlson back together.
I also see the early games as Orpik getting his typical assignments and minutes to see if can handle them. Then perhaps give Schmidt and Orlov some better minutes.
I also think whether they are winning or not will have a lot to say about how they use their available d
Dr John Carlson
Registered User
Devil Dancer
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- Jan 21, 2006
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Those were two very different players.
He'll probably start the season with Carlson, unless one of the younger guys looks to have taken a big step in camp. I hope he'll be fresh after getting a lot of time off last year.
hockeykicker
Moderator
- Dec 3, 2014
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Honestly I'd say first. Because we saw what orlov and orpik did. Schmidt was with Carlson and they were pretty good. Can't have orlov and orpik together. If you put Schmidt and orpik then maybe
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
I'd agree with this. depending on what team your playing and trying to get the right match-ups, the first two lines can be swapped.
RandyHolt
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Orpskine
No reason to panic over the thought of breaking up A/N
In fact we may end up finding 3 better pairs. You at least have to try after last years choke job by our 4-8. The worst to me was Chorney watching Kessel walk in front and do nothing. At least Orpik tried to battle.
No reason to panic over the thought of breaking up A/N
In fact we may end up finding 3 better pairs. You at least have to try after last years choke job by our 4-8. The worst to me was Chorney watching Kessel walk in front and do nothing. At least Orpik tried to battle.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
Chorney was covering Crosby. If he jumped on Kessel, he would've passed it over to Crosby for an easy tap-in goal. It was Beagle and Niskanen's fault for a lack of communication when switching places.
Orpik only played about 700 minutes last season. I like to think the rest did his body good. And he will be able to step right into the role he had before.
txpd
Registered User
1. Are you saying Orpik is no better than Erskine?
2. Who is panicing? I realize you would like to see all the avaiable combinations used in a season and that A/N playing seperately is part of that, but I am others are just projecting that Trotz will continue to use them as a pair, He has shown no interest in changing that.
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
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I am saying Orpik is our injury prone tough defensemen.
Posters largely hate the notion of breaking up A/N. Call it panic if you'd like. It will be Trotz'z go to matchup D pair in the loffs sure. But Alzner's injury forced shuffling into pairings never even tried for a shift. It failed. Line and pair projections are not static. Give us lineup A and B. Project for the inevitable shuffles. Like Trotz should.
Random pairs to try: Alzner Carlson | Orlov Nisky | Orpik Nate | Orpik Carlson | Alzner Orlov | Nate Nisk
1 game. 20 minutes each - just to see if something sticks.
About Chorney, he could have still played the pass and man just moving up a meter and help Holts facing a guy moving laterally. Move up and lay down, do something. Get a stick out. It's pointless to play the pass off to the side of the net vs a guy moving across the front of the net unimpeded. Bait him to pass, if he is dumb enough. Crosby was more than willing to let himself be tied up there, I am certain. They may still score but at least you plant Kessel on his keister and force a pass vs basically the highest % play a guy can get. Maybe Crosby grabs on and kills the play. That's the way I'd play it every time.
Posters largely hate the notion of breaking up A/N. Call it panic if you'd like. It will be Trotz'z go to matchup D pair in the loffs sure. But Alzner's injury forced shuffling into pairings never even tried for a shift. It failed. Line and pair projections are not static. Give us lineup A and B. Project for the inevitable shuffles. Like Trotz should.
Random pairs to try: Alzner Carlson | Orlov Nisky | Orpik Nate | Orpik Carlson | Alzner Orlov | Nate Nisk
1 game. 20 minutes each - just to see if something sticks.
About Chorney, he could have still played the pass and man just moving up a meter and help Holts facing a guy moving laterally. Move up and lay down, do something. Get a stick out. It's pointless to play the pass off to the side of the net vs a guy moving across the front of the net unimpeded. Bait him to pass, if he is dumb enough. Crosby was more than willing to let himself be tied up there, I am certain. They may still score but at least you plant Kessel on his keister and force a pass vs basically the highest % play a guy can get. Maybe Crosby grabs on and kills the play. That's the way I'd play it every time.
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SpinningEdge
Registered User
He's a 2nd liner. Remember when GMBM said Mike Green would have to get paid like a 3rd liner if he wanted to stay? He's the reason Orpik was one of the worst FA signings over the past few years. I think he'd be completely against having him on the third line as that makes GMBM look like one of his first moves was a huge mistake.
The defense right now isn't Cup caliber IMO. Schmidt isn't good at anything besides skating, Orpik is injury prone and does stupid stuff at stupid times, and Orlov doesn't seem to be on Trotz's trust list.
If we have a third line of Schmidt/Orpik... Lord have mercy.
The defense right now isn't Cup caliber IMO. Schmidt isn't good at anything besides skating, Orpik is injury prone and does stupid stuff at stupid times, and Orlov doesn't seem to be on Trotz's trust list.
If we have a third line of Schmidt/Orpik... Lord have mercy.
Right now, Orpik is top 4, like it or not.
Or Orlov gets dealt for an upgrade, then that will change.
Or Orlov gets dealt for an upgrade, then that will change.
txpd
Registered User
you mean, call it panic if you like. noone else is panicing about it. i am fine with alzner carlson coming back. i just see no sign that trotz is going to do that. i see even less the likelyhood that the caps do a musical chairs defense pairings.
Alzner and Niskanen need to be broken up and spread out on different pairings. Unless we can acquire a good two way top LD (which seems impossible given cap/resources/everything) we need to roll with Orlov in the top 4 and hope he takes another step forward. He was very impressive last year given that he missed a year of development and if put into a top 4 role to succeed there's a good chance he takes the same step Voynov took the year the Kings won their first cup.
Pairings should be:
Alzner-Carlson (Suter-Weber lite, feed them 25 minutes a game)
Orlov-Niskanen (Orlov rushes the puck, Niskanen is a veteran who covers/supports with good outlet passes/mentors Orlov. Having 2 defensive guys in Alzner and Niskanen together isn't the best use of resources given what we have)
Orpik-Schmidt - use them sparingly with good matchups, have Orpik be #1 on PK, have Schmidt cover for Orpik with his speed and Orpik take the pressure off Schmidt with physicality. Schmidt is kinda like Hunwick/Tallinder - fast skating nonphysical DFD who can be effective in the right supporting role but is not someone you should count on for reliable offense or one on one matchups.
One thing I would love to see which is quasi realistic (maybe) is dumping Winnik and Chorney signing both Ehrhoff and Seidenberg to bargain basement deals, maybe they like the chance to play as a pairing for a contender. Then roll with
Alzner/Niskanen/Orlov/Orpik/Carlson top 4
Seidenberg-Ehrhoff bottom pairing
I could see those 2 have insane chemistry and playing as a legit 2nd pairing when together, more than the sum of their parts. Kind of how Daley and Dumolin played way above their pay grade when together for the Pens. Their games match up well (Ehrhoff fast skater who can be physical, Seidenberg physical stay at home guy with big shot and good outlet pass, both German, always thought they were tailor made for each other, no idea why no team tried them both together)
Pairings should be:
Alzner-Carlson (Suter-Weber lite, feed them 25 minutes a game)
Orlov-Niskanen (Orlov rushes the puck, Niskanen is a veteran who covers/supports with good outlet passes/mentors Orlov. Having 2 defensive guys in Alzner and Niskanen together isn't the best use of resources given what we have)
Orpik-Schmidt - use them sparingly with good matchups, have Orpik be #1 on PK, have Schmidt cover for Orpik with his speed and Orpik take the pressure off Schmidt with physicality. Schmidt is kinda like Hunwick/Tallinder - fast skating nonphysical DFD who can be effective in the right supporting role but is not someone you should count on for reliable offense or one on one matchups.
One thing I would love to see which is quasi realistic (maybe) is dumping Winnik and Chorney signing both Ehrhoff and Seidenberg to bargain basement deals, maybe they like the chance to play as a pairing for a contender. Then roll with
Alzner/Niskanen/Orlov/Orpik/Carlson top 4
Seidenberg-Ehrhoff bottom pairing
I could see those 2 have insane chemistry and playing as a legit 2nd pairing when together, more than the sum of their parts. Kind of how Daley and Dumolin played way above their pay grade when together for the Pens. Their games match up well (Ehrhoff fast skater who can be physical, Seidenberg physical stay at home guy with big shot and good outlet pass, both German, always thought they were tailor made for each other, no idea why no team tried them both together)
