Organization Speak and the Result

[kbuck8851]

we've been Obamaed!........

Really? Please keep your (mis-guided) politics away from hockey. Keep that stuff to Tim Thomas' Facebook page please.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We got sold a product by a bunch of businessmen, and the fanbase bit, hook, line and sinker.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Really? Please keep your (mis-guided) politics away from hockey. Keep that stuff to Tim Thomas' Facebook page please.

Good Lord.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Really? Please keep your (mis-guided) politics away from hockey. Keep that stuff to Tim Thomas' Facebook page please.

 

[billybudd]

In business, when an executive is hired, superiors will generally give a broad sort of mission, then leave them to their own devices for about a year to establish their authority and leave their mark.

Burkle and Lemieux complained last summer about how their money was being spent. That's not PR. Take a step back. Makes them look greedy, not flattering. Well, even more money has been spent even more foolishly this year.

I don't view this past season as an abandonment of the principles they laid out last year, so much as that they made a bad hire, trusted the wrong people and gave everyone too much rope.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Is there any chance they cut bait on their front office experiment, for lack of better term, after one, pretty awful, season?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Is there any chance they cut bait on their front office experiment, for lack of better term, after one, pretty awful, season?

Logic says yes, but y'know, it's the Penguins...

We all know nothing's going to change. JR & the 43 dwarfs will be here to bumble through their jobs next season. MJ and Tocchet will be back to **** things up behind the bench. We'll see Kunitz, Sutter, and Scuderi back in uniform come October.

 

[tom_servo]

We got sold a product by a bunch of businessmen, and the fanbase bit, hook, line and sinker.

You give them too much credit. It doesn't really matter what they say; we're here to watch hockey, and we will continue to do so. They don't need to sell anything.

However, it's maddening how they are seemingly shooting themselves in the foot by continuing this shortsighted style of management. And unfortunately, unlike with a traditional business, there's little we can do to influence a specific direction.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It's a toxic combination of a couple of things.

1) Knowing the changes that need to be made, but not wanting to fire friends and good buddies. Mario and Burkle have treated the Pens not as a business but as a place to hang out with their buddies. So when they make 'changes' it never goes deeply enough to change anything.

2) Those remaining know that they need to show something or even being a good buddy will not be enough. Remember when in 2007 Littlefield traded outfielder Rajai Davis to the San Francisco Giants for pitcher Matt Morris? That is the kind of moves you make when in that situation. Despres for Lovejoy was both that and a bone to Mario who said giving away Lovejoy for nothing was an example of things that led to letting Shero go. Bad on so many levels.

Combine those two and you have disaster. And I see no signs that the Pens ownership is yet willing to cut ties with friends and treat this solely as a business. That is what is frightening. I do not think that we have hit bottom. As they say in AA, until you admit that you have a problem you have not taken the first step toward a solution.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Is there any chance they cut bait on their front office experiment, for lack of better term, after one, pretty awful, season?

What 'experiment'? They changed nothing. JR is the McClatchy of the Pens. A figurehead to parade in front of the media and take the hits with little to no real power. The same idiots are running the show that have mismanged this team for years now.

 

[Winger for Hire]

What 'experiment'? They changed nothing. JR is the McClatchy of the Pens. A figurehead to parade in front of the media and take the hits with little to no real power. The same idiots are running the show that have mismanged this team for years now.

I think having 9 people having an equal seat at the table is quite the experiment. Especially since it seems that the guy hired to oversee everything (JR) has no more say, allegedly, than someone learning the ropes (Billy G).

Sidenote- The JR/McClatchy comparison isn't quite right. JR is a placeholder/figurehead. McClatchy was the lead owner and CEO of the Pirates with all the power. JR knows how the league works and is just terrible at running a team. McClatchy had zero idea how to run a team and how to evaluate his hires and spend money.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think having 9 people having an equal seat at the table is quite the experiment. Especially since it seems that the guy hired to oversee everything (JR) has no more say, allegedly, than someone learning the ropes (Billy G).

Sidenote- The JR/McClatchy comparison isn't quite right. JR is a placeholder/figurehead. McClatchy was the lead owner and CEO of the Pirates with all the power. JR knows how the league works and is just terrible at running a team. McClatchy had zero idea how to run a team and how to evaluate his hires and spend money.

Those same nine people were there the past several years. JR for Shero was the only change.

 

[wej20]

Billy G is a great guy but did get promoted to Assitant GM quite quickly.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Guerin just thinks he's still a player. He's too close to his playing days to be able to distance himself from the friendships and bonds he developed with the team.

More of the same old ****.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Those same nine people were there the past several years. JR for Shero was the only change.

I understand these people were still here under Shero, but they've been elevated to positions of power on par with Shero/JR.

Billy G went from Player Development to Ass GM
Fitz went from Ass to the GM to Ass GM

And everyone else was given new fancier titles and equal share among the group.

How many times did you hear Shero talk about the group of 9 thinking a decision was best for the team? He may have made some good, bad and questionable moves, but he took credit as the guy who pulled the trigger on those deals. He was the clear point man on all GM decisions. Now we have JR as the mouth piece for the GM counsel. Every presser is how the group came to a decision on whatever move was made. There's no clear cut person to point to when placing credit or blame on a move. You just have to basically pick 5 of the 9 and say a majority of them must have voted yes.

 

[wej20]

Maybe if he had two trusty lieutenants it might work but 8 or however many we're up to now? stupidity

 

[Ugene Magic]

Did they give you a set time table when they were going to have this all worked out?

Even with the trades of Bortuzzo and Despres, who they knew they were trading them while sitting in that interview most likely, haven't finished the book yet.

Ask yourself, did I expect a magic turnover to happen in this one season to fix all issues?

I'm assuming, no.


Remember, they did play youth (injured), and they were not counting on losing three of their top D-man, also injured.

Injuries are a valid excuse.

Even though they traded Despres they did play him up to that point. This is the only factor you have that even remotely stands ground being the trade.

Anyone arguing Bortuzzo for Cole swap is clueless.

An the Pens (using Wej20 post with 25 and unders) have had 6 at 26 or under with Maatta being the youngest at 20. This now without Bortuzzo 25 and Despres 23.

Perron, Sutter, Cole and Spaling at 26.
Bennett 23
Maatta 20
Pouliot 21

Well they certainly have to take some of the blame, they were the ones who hired JR and his band of merry men and they haven't really followed through on much of what was said in that interview.
We have the 3rd oldest NHL roster and Maatta is the only player under 25 making a top 4/top6/starter level contribution. Compare that to the Rags (5th oldest roster); Stepan, Kreider and Hayes are all under 25, McDonagh and Hagelin are 25.

The Pens have 8 guys 30 or over, minus one since Dupuis has been out the entire season pretty much, and they added three through trades in Lovejoy, Winnik and Lapierre for a run is only even with them at 7 30+ vets.

You guys are splitting hairs here.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Maybe if he had two trusty lieutenants it might work but 8 or however many we're up to now? stupidity

You could work with 8 or so, but you need to have one guy at the top that everyone reports to through a solid line on the Org Chart. There has to be that one guy who has the final say, and shoulders the blame or takes the praise.

If you have 9 people planning a trip Pittsburgh to Washington, PA, they all have the same goal, there could be 9 different routes to get there. Someone want to take 79 the whole way down, someone wants to take some back roads to avoid traffic, someone wants to leave later, someone wants to leave early, etc. If they all have a say and vote on each turn and stop, you're going to get a heaping pile of crap for a trip and probably get there a lot later than you planned, if at all.

(Maybe an analogy about 9 cooks trying to make chicken soup from 9 different cookbooks would have worked better here... oh well)

Same goes for a team. They all have the same goal, winning the Cup and being competitive, but some want to do it through drafting, some want to do it through the FA market, some want to lean on vets, some want to mash everything together, etc. It all ends up a jumbled mess with no one to blame.

 

[wej20]

Did they give you a set time table when they were going to have this all worked out?

Even with the trades of Bortuzzo and Despres, who they knew they were trading them while sitting in that interview most likely, haven't finished the book yet.

Ask yourself, did I expect a magic turnover to happen in this one season to fix all issues?

I'm assuming, no.


Remember, they did play youth (injured), and they were not counting on losing three of their top D-man, also injured.

Injuries are a valid excuse.

Even though they traded Despres they did play him up to that point. This is the only factor you have that even remotely stands ground being the trade.

Anyone arguing Bortuzzo for Cole swap is clueless.

An the Pens (using Wej20 post with 25 and unders) have had 6 at 26 or under with Maatta being the youngest at 20. This now without Bortuzzo 25 and Despres 23.

Perron, Sutter, Cole and Spaling at 26.
Bennett 23
Maatta 20
Pouliot 21




The Pens have 8 guys 30 or over, minus one since Dupuis has been out the entire season pretty much, and they added three through trades in Lovejoy, Winnik and Lapierre for a run is only even with them at 7 30+ vets.

You guys are splitting hairs here.

I used 25 as guys under that age are the most likely to see big improvements in their game. Both Perron and Spaling are going to be 27 by the time next season roles around. Even if we up it to 26 and under we still have just the two top 6/top4/starter level contributors (Maatta and Perron), 2 decent third liners (Sutter and Spaling), a decent bottom pairing dman (Cole), a guy they have no clue what to do with (Bennett) and Pouliot (who probably would be better off in the AHL right now).

 

[Gurglesons]

The Pens have 8 guys 30 or over, minus one since Dupuis has been out the entire season pretty much, and they added three through trades in Lovejoy, Winnik and Lapierre for a run is only even with them at 7 30+ vets.

You guys are splitting hairs here.

How are we splitting hairs? Comeau took about 3/4th of the season to be moved out of the top six. Bennett regardless of his play has not even been tried in the top six. So, we played a UFA who signed here to cash in over a kid that is an RFA.

Despres was traded for a 31 year old that has a year left on his contract and is notably worse.

We traded Samuelson for Klinkhammer instead of letting a player like Rust or Wilson cut his teeth in the NHL. We never even tried it.

Craig Adams took 1/2 of the season to be scratched even though he is a liability every time he is on the ice.

The franchise said they were going to play youth, but never did and now we are somehow in an even worse position than we were last year.

 

[Iffyiffiffer]

If Mario doesn't clean house of the management group, it's time to blame him.

It doesn't matter because he's incapable himself of choosing the correct people to replace them.

 

[Iffyiffiffer]

I cannot believe the media isn't bringing it up. Blows my mind. These are words out of ownerships mouth.

They don't think there's anything to bring up. They think Despres can't skate and that Bennett is lazy and weak.

 

[Asuna]

They don't think there's anything to bring up. They think Despres can't skate and that Bennett is lazy and weak.

They also think Despres is just a fighter

****ing idiots

 

[The Old Master]

Really? Please keep your (mis-guided) politics away from hockey. Keep that stuff to Tim Thomas' Facebook page please.

touchy!....... sounds like you got suckered and haven't gotten over it yet. it's ok we all made mistakes.

 

[Terrapin]

Geez, if Mario wanted a team similar to Montreal, he's not even close. Hell, the Pens don't even look in the same league as Ottawa