OT: On this episode of Days of the OT..

[EichHart]

Top 1% performers don't get 2% raises in well-run private (non-government) companies.
Either your company/division isn't doing well, or you make way above the pay range for your job role/grade already, or they're telling everyone at your location they are top 1% and stiffing everyone. I encourage you to learn more about your personal situation (your pay relative to their internal scales for your position / role, what market data they use for your job code, etc.). You deserve to know, and they should tell you.

It's actually very common here. I've held jobs at several fortune 500 companies and they're all the same. 1-5% raises, never above unless it's a promotion to a new role. I asked around and all employees said the same thing. I work for a large financial inst.

 

[Dubi Doo]

It's actually very common here. I've held jobs at several fortune 500 companies and they're all the same. 1-5% raises, never above unless it's a promotion to a new role. I asked around and all employees said the same thing. I work for a large financial inst.

And that's exactly why my generation hops from company to company so often.

 

[brian_griffin]

It's actually very common here. I've held jobs at several fortune 500 companies and they're all the same. 1-5% raises, never above unless it's a promotion to a new role. I asked around and all employees said the same thing. I work for a large financial inst.

In a prolonged ~2.5% annual COL or CPI environment / economy (we will avoid discussing reasons that is falsely low), like we've been in (USA) for about the past decade, it nonetheless provides a justifiable median benchmark around which to anchor a median salary increase for a workforce.

Median performers would then receive ~2.5%. Top performers receive more, bottom performers receive less, with the net weighted increase between the top and bottom performers also being ~2.5%.

If you're saying you received a 2% raise for top 1% performance, that's counter to logic / typical practice.

If instead you actually received 5% raise for top 1% performance, that's also consistent with logic / practice for a Fortune 500 company.

And that's exactly why my generation hops from company to company so often.

That's also why my colleagues and I might be reluctant to hire frequent job hoppers.

Not arguing, just asking if you've considered other perspectives.

If your field does not require depth, job hopping every 2-3 years can work. Otherwise, it's a red flag to me as a hiring mgr.

 

[TehDoak]

It's actually very common here. I've held jobs at several fortune 500 companies and they're all the same. 1-5% raises, never above unless it's a promotion to a new role. I asked around and all employees said the same thing. I work for a large financial inst.

And that's exactly why my generation hops from company to company so often.

In a prolonged ~2.5% annual COL or CPI environment / economy (we will avoid discussing reasons that is falsely low), like we've been in (USA) for about the past decade, it nonetheless provides a justifiable median benchmark around which to anchor a median salary increase for a workforce.

Median performers would then receive ~2.5%. Top performers receive more, bottom performers receive less, with the net weighted increase between the top and bottom performers also being ~2.5%.

If you're saying you received a 2% raise for top 1% performance, that's counter to logic / typical practice.

If instead you actually received 5% raise for top 1% performance, that's also consistent with logic / practice for a Fortune 500 company.

That's also why my colleagues and I might be reluctant to hire frequent job hoppers.

Not arguing, just asking if you've considered other perspectives.

If your field does not require depth, job hopping every 2-3 years can work. Otherwise, it's a red flag to me as a hiring mgr.

Honestly, and I can only speak for the IT field, but switching companies typically is the only way to substantially increase your wage.

After about ~5 years of floating at an Entry level wage, I took a nightshift role at my company to get a promotion. It was around 30% bump, which at the time, was huge for me and my family.

After being miserable for 6 months (i'm not cut out for night shift), I found another role which was around 20% more.

After a year and change there, I was recruited away and got nearly a 50% bump.

So my switching jobs 2x within 18 months after receiving a significant raise, I was making more than double than I was before my promotion.

Sure, that makes me a job hopper. But, it was the right move for me both professionally and financially.

Loyalty to companies is almost never worth it. Unless the company has been loyal to you and will continue to be (i.e. has invested in your professional development and given you proper promotions and raises as you've grown and gotten experience). Unfortunately most companies see employees as extremely transactional. They hire the minimum they can, work them as hard as they can for as little as they can. And the minute they can get the the same work for a little cheaper, they'll dump the employees without second thought to tenure. Because of that, this is how employees should see employers, as a mutually beneficial relationship. You provide labor, they provide capital in exchange. If you have an opportunity for a better salary and role for you and your family, take it. I've been on countless interviews during my time, and only once has someone called me a "job hopper" and asked why I wouldn't leave them in 2 years. It pissed me off (as it wasn't true, I had just taken an awful job to avoid moving in with my parents because I had been laid off and needed to find something better) and I basically ripped into him and pointed out why I left each job I had. I didn't get the role, and honestly it was the best thing for me as my next job set me up for the success i'm having today.

 

[Gras]

Honestly, and I can only speak for the IT field, but switching companies typically is the only way to substantially increase your wage.

After about ~5 years of floating at an Entry level wage, I took a nightshift role at my company to get a promotion. It was around 30% bump, which at the time, was huge for me and my family.

After being miserable for 6 months (i'm not cut out for night shift), I found another role which was around 20% more.

After a year and change there, I was recruited away and got nearly a 50% bump.

So my switching jobs 2x within 18 months after receiving a significant raise, I was making more than double than I was before my promotion.

Sure, that makes me a job hopper. But, it was the right move for me both professionally and financially.

Loyalty to companies is almost never worth it. Unless the company has been loyal to you and will continue to be (i.e. has invested in your professional development and given you proper promotions and raises as you've grown and gotten experience). Unfortunately most companies see employees as extremely transactional. They hire the minimum they can, work them as hard as they can for as little as they can. And the minute they can get the the same work for a little cheaper, they'll dump the employees without second thought to tenure. Because of that, this is how employees should see employers, as a mutually beneficial relationship. You provide labor, they provide capital in exchange. If you have an opportunity for a better salary and role for you and your family, take it. I've been on countless interviews during my time, and only once has someone called me a "job hopper" and asked why I wouldn't leave them in 2 years. It pissed me off (as it wasn't true, I had just taken an awful job to avoid moving in with my parents because I had been laid off and needed to find something better) and I basically ripped into him and pointed out why I left each job I had. I didn't get the role, and honestly it was the best thing for me as my next job set me up for the success i'm having today.

I would kill to be able to go back to a 2nd shift or nights.

 

[Dubi Doo]

In a prolonged ~2.5% annual COL or CPI environment / economy (we will avoid discussing reasons that is falsely low), like we've been in (USA) for about the past decade, it nonetheless provides a justifiable median benchmark around which to anchor a median salary increase for a workforce.

Median performers would then receive ~2.5%. Top performers receive more, bottom performers receive less, with the net weighted increase between the top and bottom performers also being ~2.5%.

If you're saying you received a 2% raise for top 1% performance, that's counter to logic / typical practice.

If instead you actually received 5% raise for top 1% performance, that's also consistent with logic / practice for a Fortune 500 company.

That's also why my colleagues and I might be reluctant to hire frequent job hoppers.

Not arguing, just asking if you've considered other perspectives.

If your field does not require depth, job hopping every 2-3 years can work. Otherwise, it's a red flag to me as a hiring mgr.

Definitely understandable. I've personally stayed in the same company for almost 5 years. I've received 3 promotions so far, though I switched careers within the company from accounts&billing to supply chain&operation management. I now make $6 more an hour, and found a career I <3.

I know once I put another year or two in I can probably move to another company and make 20k more.

So imo, it's probably not wise to hop jobs every 2-3 years, but I also understand it may take a few swings to find your niche. When you do find a career you enjoy ride it out. Even if the pay is a bit low. Try to advance in your company, but once it's obvious they're lowballing you, then begin looking else where, up your asking price, and when a job comes-a-calling, which they eventually will, allow your current company to match ( if you enjoy it there). If they wont, then peace!

Oh, and I cant stress how important it is to negotiate your salary when first starting with a company. In my case, my company tends to do raises based on a percentage of your current salary even if you do get a promotion. I nickel and dime the hell out of my company everytime I get a raise because I know they're going to shoot for a standard 10% raise, but they'll budge a bit if I push.

 

[Dubi Doo]

haha, i am exactly the opposite. i hate saying the things that people want to hear. it just seems gross to me. i get that it has its advantages in certain situations, and i will reluctantly do it, but i feel that it definitely comes across as inherently fake when i try just because i am so not into it.

i am also plain bad at self-promotion, probably for the same reasons. i prefer just having a chat and seeing if the people like me as a person. it's a good indicator of how i'd fit into the the company culture, etc. not that i lack confidence in my abilities, or anything. i'm not worried about my own performance. i'm just not good at pumping myself up to display that i actually can perform whatever duties might be assigned to me

This is where I'm at. If I do pursue another job I want to be sure I'm a good fit. I want to know how often I am going to be on my feet, the management style, the benefits, the work/life balance, etc...if they all align, then I'm in, but I'm no longer going into interviews hoping to get out of a shitty situation. It's a good feeling, and I hope all of you fine chaps get there one day. I will say, I ain't making much dough, so there's my dilemma...leave a job I truly love for a job I may not like but pays more. Life is tough.

 

[valet]

This is where I'm at. If I do pursue another job I want to be sure I'm a good fit. I want to know how often I am going to be on my feet, the management style, the benefits, the work/life balance, etc...if they all align, then I'm in, but I'm no longer going into interviews hoping to get out of a ****ty situation. It's a good feeling, and I hope all of you fine chaps get there one day. I will say, I ain't making much dough, so there's my dilemma...leave a job I truly love for a job I may not like but pays more. Life is tough.

I hear that. My last job was a toxic culture mess. In-fighting, people talking about co-workers behind their backs, trying to get other people stuck in the middle instead of talking their way through conflict, a general lack of ability to push projects forward even though we had both the time and resources to do so. I never want to work another job like that. It was so bad I ended up leaving without a backup plan, and now here I am, looking for jobs. I don't regret my decision at all

 

[Jim Bob]

I may need to scramble to pull together some full right goalie gear for my son who is getting recruited to be the backup goalie for his HS hockey team. He's played lax goalie & catcher in baseball. But, never in net on the ice...

 

[Dreakon13]

I hear that. My last job was a toxic culture mess. In-fighting, people talking about co-workers behind their backs, trying to get other people stuck in the middle instead of talking their way through conflict, a general lack of ability to push projects forward even though we had both the time and resources to do so. I never want to work another job like that. It was so bad I ended up leaving without a backup plan, and now here I am, looking for jobs. I don't regret my decision at all

That sounds like my last job. Right down to leaving without a plan and not regretting it at all.

Though I probably could've handled the toxicity, if it weren't for the whole "being up at 2am remoting with other countries most nights because our crappy network killed a process halfway through and they didn't get their reports" thing, then getting chewed out the next morning after going above and beyond getting it working. My manager had some real trust issues, despite being a cool person overall.

Put up with that whole thing about a year longer than I should've. My stress levels were off the charts and my stomach paid the price for it, I'll tell you.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

My current gig is 8 minutes from home, 7:30 - 4, and generally is like semi-retirement. Are there boring days? You better believe it. While my salary isn’t impressive, the minimizing of my work-related stress levels and being in an *okay* state retirement system more than makes up for it.

I got really tired of my loyalty being rewarded with being strung along on a promotion that never came, despite 3 years of waiting and working 45-60 hours a week. Not worth it to kill myself to make an extra buck.

 

[Dreakon13]

When I left my last job, my manager walked me out with my stuff and said "congratulations on getting the hell out of here." I really did like the people but man, did that job suck by the end.

 

[Chainshot]

I admit that I was happy when my last company downsized me. I would probably take that job right now. At least I wouldn't be here.

 

[EichHart]

My current gig is 8 minutes from home, 7:30 - 4, and generally is like semi-retirement. Are there boring days? You better believe it. While my salary isn’t impressive, the minimizing of my work-related stress levels and being in an *okay* state retirement system more than makes up for it.

I got really tired of my loyalty being rewarded with being strung along on a promotion that never came, despite 3 years of waiting and working 45-60 hours a week. Not worth it to kill myself to make an extra buck.

State jobs are more safe, better retirement, better benefits, less stress, but usually less pay. I say they blow the private sector out of the water with the amount of pros vs cons.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

State jobs are more safe, better retirement, better benefits, less stress, but usually less pay. I say they blow the private sector out of the water with the amount of pros vs cons.

I have a meeting in 2 weeks to see if it’s feasible for me to retire at 55. I’ll have 21 years with the state at that point and am planning on socking away 15% as of next month.

Mortgage is paid off, college loans are gone (Thanks, dead dad), so we will see.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

I admit that I was happy when my last company downsized me. I would probably take that job right now. At least I wouldn't be here.

Always hoping for the best for you, Chain. You’re one of the good ones.

 

[Jim Bob]

Nothing like a bomb threat at your kids' HS to brighten your Friday afternoon....

 

[Jim Bob]

That is insane.

 

[TehDoak]

That is insane.

I'm very curious to see how it plays out. It certainly delivers specs wise (and competitive on price). I think the looks will make it a hard sell to be a fleet vehicle, but I think it'll be an interesting niche vehicle.

 

[valet]

That is insane.

the more exposure that i get to elon musk and his 'vision', the more i dislike him. i just don't get it

 

[vcv]

Since I started my corporate career in 2006, I've changed jobs twice, had my salary increased to "correct" for the company underpaying, had my salary increased when I had another job offer, and finally got a nice bump with a promotion. That's resulted in now making more than 300% of what I did when I started way back when. It helps to be in a good field with a skill set that's in high demand though.

 

[TehDoak]

Since I started my corporate career in 2006, I've changed jobs twice, had my salary increased to "correct" for the company underpaying, had my salary increased when I had another job offer, and finally got a nice bump with a promotion. That's resulted in now making more than 300% of what I did when I started way back when. It helps to be in a good field with a skill set that's in high demand though.

That is how it should be. And yes, being in a high demand field helps a ton.

But, wage growth in this country has stagnated a ton. I think i've mentioned this before, but I started my first real job in 2005. It made $38,000 a year, which was around standard for Entry level IT jobs.

It's been 14 years....and the role still pays the same. Based on inflation and CoL, it should be near 50k.

Companies have systematically fought wage growth and lobbied against any sort of regulation (look at the lobby against minimum wage increases) linking wages to CPI or any sort of index.

In other news, just got a finalized job offer. I believe I'll be taking this one, just need to hammer out a few details.

 

[Jim Bob]

Engineering & Metal Fabrication Academy: Welding

Auto Body & Collision Repair Technology

My younger son may start working towards being a welder starting next year.

He is always trying to figure out ways to develop a solid career without going into major debt.

A few months ago he was thinking about the Air Force Reserves. But, his mom was like "Oh heck no!"

She is much more excited about this route.

 

[brian_griffin]

That is how it should be. And yes, being in a high demand field helps a ton.

But, wage growth in this country has stagnated a ton. I think i've mentioned this before, but I started my first real job in 2005. It made $38,000 a year, which was around standard for Entry level IT jobs.

It's been 14 years....and the role still pays the same. Based on inflation and CoL, it should be near 50k.

Companies have systematically fought wage growth and lobbied against any sort of regulation (look at the lobby against minimum wage increases) linking wages to CPI or any sort of index.

In other news, just got a finalized job offer. I believe I'll be taking this one, just need to hammer out a few details.

congrats on the new job offer!!!

Re: entry level IT pay. That’s insane. The lack of wage growth has to be linked to supply and demand. Entry level pay in my field is consistent with ~3% annual COL growth from when I started working.

 

[valet]

That is how it should be. And yes, being in a high demand field helps a ton.

But, wage growth in this country has stagnated a ton. I think i've mentioned this before, but I started my first real job in 2005. It made $38,000 a year, which was around standard for Entry level IT jobs.

It's been 14 years....and the role still pays the same. Based on inflation and CoL, it should be near 50k.

Companies have systematically fought wage growth and lobbied against any sort of regulation (look at the lobby against minimum wage increases) linking wages to CPI or any sort of index.

In other news, just got a finalized job offer. I believe I'll be taking this one, just need to hammer out a few details.

is that industry standard pay or does it just apply to that company specifically?