Olympics: Olympic Pre-Qualification Round 3 (6-9 February 2020)

[SoundAndFury]

Yes, e.g. Wronka, Bryk, Malasinski, Baginski, Pociecha and of course our NA prospects Lewandowski and Lyszczarczyk didn't play. Would you add someone else (as first team roster player)?

Baginski is past it but Dronia, Pasiut, Cichy, Szczechura. Murray's backup was some random guy too (although I suppose it didn't matter).

 

[Michal]

Correct me if I am wrong, but unless Japan wins tonight as well, Poland is going to the Slovak qualification tournament and not Latvia's.

I think you are right however I'd like to emphasize (in order to make @Namejs happy ) IIHF website (and any other) provides not very clear information in terms of assignation rules.

Go Japan! I want Poland to play in less challenging tournament!

 

[SoundAndFury]

Croatia can't score on this team of ours though Good luck in 2A lads. If the Netherlands bring their guys you have no chance...

 

[ZT]

Croatia can't score on this team of ours though Good luck in 2A lads. If the Netherlands bring their guys you have no chance...

With this roster we'll lose even against AUS and ESP...

 

[kabidjan18]

Yeah but again, he shouldn't be close to that role yet if this was actual best on best.

No... he should. Hungary are missing 2 forwards, not half a team. And he's better than half the forwards on the roster.

This quali round comes at a bad time for a lot of clubs trying to make the playoffs. If clubs don't release players that isn't "not taking it seriously."

 

[Namejs]

Correct me if I am wrong, but unless Japan wins tonight as well, Poland is going to the Slovak qualification tournament and not Latvia's.

I'm not sure I got your point. Hungary, GB or Poland, these are all third tier teams that we should beat with our B team 8 or 9 times out of 10.

It's not about Poland, it's about not facing Kazakhstan.

 

[Namejs]

That's what Kazachstan thought some time ago

With all due respect, all of the Polish players come from their domestic league. Edgars Cgojevs was a top 10 guy in Poland a few years back and now he's playing in the Latvian 2nd division.

There are no players from the Latvian top division in our national team. There's literally no overlap in terms of skill between Latvia and Poland.

And just like Finland, Latvian mentality is all about grit, hard work and discipline. There is no way we would lose against you.

As for Hungary and GB, they do have 1 or 2 players who could play for us, but that's about it.

So excuse me for not being too worried about them.

 

[SoundAndFury]

No... he should. Hungary are missing 2 forwards, not half a team. And he's better than half the forwards on the roster.

This quali round comes at a bad time for a lot of clubs trying to make the playoffs. If clubs don't release players that isn't "not taking it seriously."

Sebok, Gallo. Those are the obvious ones. But there are also Bartalis, Bodo, Magosi, Janos Vas missing. So you can arrange those names any way you want the kid isn't making top-6 even on the best day.

Look at this Polish team. Do you think this is seriously their best roster, or Katowice allows numerous players to go but not Pasiut, or that Katowice's backup who has never played for the NT before is actually the 2nd best goalie they could get? This is, quite obviously, the roster of players who didn't mind going. Maybe you have a different name for it but that's not taking it seriously. I'm not even talking about the Lithuanian team. Very much the same applies to the Hungarian one.

 

[SoundAndFury]

With all due respect, all of the Polish players come from their domestic league. Edgars Cgojevs was a top 10 guy in Poland a few years back and now he's playing in the Latvian 2nd division.

Does the Latvian league feature players who could center the 1st line of Belarussian champions? Because that's what Pasiut did. In other words, you are oversimplifying things. Not to mention that not all Polish players play locally, actually on their best roster there would be 5 that don't which is a pretty significant number.

Secondly, Cgojevs, whatever his reasons were, went from the guy who can possibly be drafted to the NHL, to the guy playing in the Latvian 2nd league in a couple of years so that's hardly a perfect example.

But, to be honest, I think from the Latvian perspective worrying about any of those teams is thinking pretty small.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Congratulations to Poland. Been a while since something good has happened to Polish hockey.

 

[kabidjan18]

Sebok, Gallo. Those are the obvious ones. But there are also Bartalis, Bodo, Magosi, Janos Vas missing. So you can arrange those names any way you want the kid isn't making top-6 even on the best day.

Look at this Polish team. Do you think this is seriously their best roster, or Katowice allows numerous players to go but not Pasiut, or that Katowice's backup who has never played for the NT before is actually the 2nd best goalie they could get? This is, quite obviously, the roster of players who didn't mind going. Maybe you have a different name for it but that's not taking it seriously. I'm not even talking about the Lithuanian team. Very much the same applies to the Hungarian one.

The problem with your argument is that you're another specifying an actor who is "not taking it seriously." Every February international break. Every single one since I've been following mid tier hockey, this happens. Club teams are going into their pick rounds. They're going into their playoffs. Players are barred from coming because the clubs have them under contract and the federation doesn't. So who is the party that is not taking it seriously? The federation? No. The federation would love to have these players. The players? This is variable but most players I know would play unless seriously hurt. The clubs? Sure, the clubs don't take it "seriously", but they're not a party to the tournament anyways, they're just a third party with a vested interest. It is what it is, and probably always will be. But attaching attitudes to it is a curious way of putting things.

 

[Namejs]

Does the Latvian league feature players who could center the 1st line of Belarussian champions?

Yes.

Brahmanis was one of the leading forwards in Belarus for several years, he went there straight from the Latvian league and is now back in the Latvian league. Never played for the national team in any official tournament.

And, more importantly, no one would make the Latvian national team from the Belarusian league these days anyway.

My point still stands.

And you are right that it is pointless to worry about all these teams, I don't.

The only squad able to do some damage on paper is Kazakhstan and maybe Slovenia, but they are trending way down, and we're not playing either of them.

 

[jonas2244]

The only squad able to do some damage on paper is Kazakhstan and maybe Slovenia, but they are trending way down, and we're not playing either of them.

Doesn't mean you can loose one game against those opponents sometimes. Maybe 1 out of 10. It's a tournament, a lot can happen. But Latvia should qualify, no question.

GBR is in need of another comeback 0-2 down.

 

[Nooodles]

Would be nice to get some revenge on GBR for 2018. We are up 2:0 but our defense is really shaky and GBR is pushing hard. Gonna be a tough 3rd period.

 

[tobu]

Watched a bit of the Slovenia - Japan game. Slovenia dominant, but struggling to generate goal opportunities.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Club teams are going into their pick rounds. They're going into their playoffs. Players are barred from coming because the clubs have them under contract and the federation doesn't. So who is the party that is not taking it seriously? The federation? No. The federation would love to have these players. The players? This is variable but most players I know would play unless seriously hurt. The clubs? Sure, the clubs don't take it "seriously", but they're not a party to the tournament anyways, they're just a third party with a vested interest. It is what it is, and probably always will be. But attaching attitudes to it is a curious way of putting things.

It's all of the above. Some players opt not to play if they feel they need rest/have family matters to attend to. Federations don't try to entice or even talk players into changing their minds because they don't think it matters. And clubs, naturally, never have any interest in the success of NT. But they are not as big of a factor as you make it seem. I find it very unlikely that Polish or the 3 leading Hungarian teams allowed players A and B go but not players C and D. Something like MAC have 5 players on this Hungarian team but told Bodo you aren't going? Unlikely. Just like in Lithuania's case, this seems to be mostly between the player and the federation.

Well anyway, it seems to be working for both Poland and Hungary.

Brahmanis was one of the leading forwards in Belarus for several years, he went there straight from the Latvian league and is now back in the Latvian league. Never played for the national team in any official tournament.

Come on, Brahmanis only came back to Latvia because he was starting to slow down due to age. Let's face it, players play in Latvia if they have nowhere else to. In Poland, that's not necessarily the case. Same way Polish clubs are able to afford some decent C-grade imports like Teddy Da Costa or Gleb Klimenko. Even numerous Latvian guys, someone like Biezais was a great import.

But sure, never said your point is wrong in general. Just that Polish league is ahead of Latvian any way you slice it and some players at the top of it are not too bad.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Hot goalie and some timely scoring did GB in. Japan had nothing to offer Slovenia despite keeping the score close for a couple of periods.

 

[ZT]

Final Olympic Qualification (27-30 August 2020)
Group D: Slovakia, Belarus, Austria, Poland. In Slovakia (city TBA).
Group E: Latvia, France, Italy, Hungary In Riga, Latvia.
Group F: Norway, Denmark, Korea, Slovenia. In Norway (city TBA).

 

[Nooodles]

GB commentators love to remind us what happened two years ago, unfortunately I have witnessed it 5 feet from our net, so thanks, but now it's time for revenge, bye GB, see you next time!

Big game from the team and especially from Rajna, good job!

 

[Namejs]

It's all of the above. Some players opt not to play if they feel they need rest/have family matters to attend to. Federations don't try to entice or even talk players into changing their minds because they don't think it matters. And clubs, naturally, never have any interest in the success of NT. But they are not as big of a factor as you make it seem. I find it very unlikely that Polish or the 3 leading Hungarian teams allowed players A and B go but not players C and D. Something like MAC have 5 players on this Hungarian team but told Bodo you aren't going? Unlikely. Just like in Lithuania's case, this seems to be mostly between the player and the federation.

Well anyway, it seems to be working for both Poland and Hungary.


Come on, Brahmanis only came back to Latvia because he was starting to slow down due to age. Let's face it, players play in Latvia if they have nowhere else to. In Poland, that's not necessarily the case. Same way Polish clubs are able to afford some decent C-grade imports like Teddy Da Costa or Gleb Klimenko. Even numerous Latvian guys, someone like Biezais was a great import.

But sure, never said your point is wrong in general. Just that Polish league is ahead of Latvian any way you slice it and some players at the top of it are not too bad.

Oh, no, that's not what I was implying.

The Polish league has more money in it. Imports are better paid. There's not much of a market for hockey outside of the Latvian KHL side. There's just not enough people here for a pro league.

That is why there are a couple of Latvians playing in Poland. But they are racking more points there than in Latvia, usually.

My point was regarding the skill level of the domestic players. Most Latvians playing in our domestic league are semi-pros or have-beens, but their natural talent and skill level is higher. It's just that hockey is not a full time job for most of them.

With more money being pumped in by teams like Mogo, Kurbads and Olimp, we are seeing a bunch of imports in Latvia as well, though. Ex-KHL, ex-VHL guys and so on.

Less money, fewer imports, higher skill level.

The last time a Latvian club faced a Polish side was in 2017/18 in the Continental Cup. Kurbads beat Tychy 5-2.

 

[kabidjan18]

It's all of the above. Some players opt not to play if they feel they need rest/have family matters to attend to. Federations don't try to entice or even talk players into changing their minds because they don't think it matters. And clubs, naturally, never have any interest in the success of NT. But they are not as big of a factor as you make it seem. I find it very unlikely that Polish or the 3 leading Hungarian teams allowed players A and B go but not players C and D. Something like MAC have 5 players on this Hungarian team but told Bodo you aren't going? Unlikely. Just like in Lithuania's case, this seems to be mostly between the player and the federation.

You're speaking entirely speculatively. You know none of this. Some players do turn down the call, yes, but you don't know which ones and you have no proof about any specific players. Neither should the opinions of one or two individuals represent the group. And the notions that "federations don't try", that's absolutely absurd. Even if you believed it wasn't, you can't provide any proof of that nature. At least the person arguing the opposite can point to statements made by coaches or federation heads in interviews etc saying "this is important." You might think that is just lip service, but you can offer nothing to the contrary other than your own opinion or your own take on the situation.

And it's very frequently the case that clubs allow A and B players to not go or to go and give C and D players a different verdict. If one player is perceived to be a higher injury risk than others or a lower injury risk, that might affect the club's recommendation. If one player anticipates playing more and another anticipates playing less, that could also affect the determination. And even a player like Bodo could easily be a discretionary cut, given that he's a naturalized Canadian. You're trying to say "this is the only explanation for X" and that's just not the case. There could be dozens of factors that you didn't consider and perhaps even that I didn't consider.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You're speaking entirely speculatively. You know none of this. Some players do turn down the call, yes, but you don't know which ones and you have no proof about any specific players. Neither should the opinions of one or two individuals represent the group. And the notions that "federations don't try", that's absolutely absurd. Even if you believed it wasn't, you can't provide any proof of that nature. At least the person arguing the opposite can point to statements made by coaches or federation heads in interviews etc saying "this is important." You might think that is just lip service, but you can offer nothing to the contrary other than your own opinion or your own take on the situation.

I can provide pretty much any proof you want from the Lithuanian side other than an official statement from Zubrus himself. Even in the official pre-tournament preview (one on the website of Lithuanian hockey federation ZT linked on Monday) it's phrased "Lietuvos rinktinei šį kartą teks verstis be kelių svarbių žaidėjų. Dėl traumų, keičiamų klubų bei asmeninių priežasčių į nacionalinę ekipą neatvykus keletui jos senbuvių," - meaning we will be missing players due to injuries, club transfers and personal reasons. I think it's reasonable to speculate other countries faced similar issues considering the roster they sent to the tournament.

Also, I can't quite understand how am I talking entirely speculatively but you are not. Do you have any proof? Because, for the most part, if a club doesn't allow the player to go he just says so and media knows all about it. I can see someone like Dronia not being allowed/encouraged not to go, there isn't even any break in DEL2. But not to the extent of ~10 players playing in the local league missing. We have Hungarian poster(s) here, any insight why those guys didn't play on your team? @Noodles

 

[Nooodles]

Also, I can't quite understand how am I talking entirely speculatively but you are not. Do you have any proof? Because, for the most part, if a club doesn't allow the player to go he just says so and media knows all about it. I can see someone like Dronia not being allowed/encouraged not to go, there isn't even any break in DEL2. But not to the extent of ~10 players playing in the local league missing. We have Hungarian poster(s) here, any insight why those guys didn't play on your team? @Noodles

We also had some injuries but three of our best forwards (Vilmos Galló - Liiga, Balázs Sebők - Liiga, István Bartalis - Allsvenskan) were not allowed to play in this tournament, our national team got informed by their clubs. At the same time players from Erste Liga, EBEL and Extraliga (most of our players are playing in these three leagues) were allowed to play as they all held a one week break due to this Qualifications.

 

[kabidjan18]

I can provide pretty much any proof you want from the Lithuanian side other than an official statement from Zubrus himself. Even in the official pre-tournament preview (one on the website of Lithuanian hockey federation ZT linked on Monday) it's phrased "Lietuvos rinktinei šį kartą teks verstis be kelių svarbių žaidėjų. Dėl traumų, keičiamų klubų bei asmeninių priežasčių į nacionalinę ekipą neatvykus keletui jos senbuvių," - meaning we will be missing players due to injuries, club transfers and personal reasons. I think it's reasonable to speculate other countries faced similar issues considering the roster they sent to the tournament.

Personal reasons can be a number of things. To say someone doesn't care because they had personal things going on in their lives...while it could be true it's still assuming things.

Also, I can't quite understand how am I talking entirely speculatively but you are not. Do you have any proof? Because, for the most part, if a club doesn't allow the player to go he just says so and media knows all about it. I can see someone like Dronia not being allowed/encouraged not to go, there isn't even any break in DEL2. But not to the extent of ~10 players playing in the local league missing. We have Hungarian poster(s) here, any insight why those guys didn't play on your team? @Noodles

First of all, club disallowal isn't highly broadcasted. Most of the times when it does happen people around the players know and gossip amongst each other and that's how it gets out but players aren't going out on social media saying "the clubs said stopped me."

Second, look back and read my last post. "You're trying to say "this is the only explanation for X" and that's just not the case. There could be dozens of factors that you didn't consider and perhaps even that I didn't consider."

When you assert X is true because of Y, you have an affirmative duty to prove Y. You assert that players didn't show up because no one cared. It's like in a crime case. If you say "John did it." I don't need to prove that Larry did it. I just need to prove that anyone but John could have done it. In this case, it's not like I need to prove "everyone cared" in order to disprove "no one cared", I just need to prove that some people cared.

 

[Milansdad]

Slovenia, Poland, Hungary

That was spot on.