Post-Game Talk: Oilers win despite Holland’s dithering

[Drivesaitl]

Although the energy, pace, and commitment to shooting and going to the net wasn't there in the first two periods, it was slightly encouraging that they didn't start forcing things when they realized that the Flyers were going to basically play a 0-5 forecheck. Too often when things get clogged up they try to force things with hero plays and dumb stretch passes than just end up compounding the problem. Thankfully they stepped up an extra gear in the third to put it away.

It's a good lesson for when we will likely inevitably play the Kings in the playoffs because they deploy a similar (non-existent) forecheck. The team needs to realize that when the opposition plays a heavy trap that they will only score on what we give to them, so just be patient, don't force plays that aren't there, don't give them anything and we will win.



I'm not sure what you're seeing with Campbell's rebound control. Up until about a month ago I'd have it categorized among some of the worst I've ever seen. He's got a better handle on it lately, but I still wouldn't categorize it as a strength.

When Campbell is on top of his game his rebound control and putting the puck out of harms way is pretty good. It has been all of 2023.

Do you disagree Skinner is awful playing the puck or using his paddle? I'll point out more of it if people need evidence down the road. He's offering up a lot of it. Skinner also has had 3 bad instances not freezing the puck causing subsequent goals just in his games in 2023. Another area of work.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Are you sure it was only five? lol

He only made five saves that night.

 

[K1984]

When Campbell is on top of his game his rebound control and putting the puck out of harms way is pretty good. It has been all of 2023.

Do you disagree Skinner is awful playing the puck or using his paddle? I'll point out more of it if people need evidence down the road. He's offering up a lot of it. Skinner also has had 3 bad instances not freezing the puck causing subsequent goals just in his games in 2023. Another area of work.

It's not a strength, but don't think it's a major consideration when comparing the goalies.

Skinner's faults are problems that can be worked on, but aren't debilitating in the interim. Campbell's issues appear to be structural and his weaknesses mentally make it a major uphill battle to fix them IMO.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Can you go into your definition of juggernaut teams that routinely fill the net a little more?

The three games of Campbell's I selectively compared against Skinner last night were actually selected because they were Campbell's last three starts. Nothing selective or nefarious.

Oh yeah, Campbell's last three games were against the teams currently ranked 11th, 18th and 19th in the NHL in goals scored per game. How are two teams that are in the bottom half of the league in goals scored per game "routinely" filling the net?

Basic point look at the Rangers roster and see the stars on that team and tell me they are not capable of "filling the net" and the rangers per game are a topten GF team.

Next the AV's have weapons like Mackinnon, Rants, Nik. The AV's are still very dangerous and Mackinnon was involved in 4 of the scoring plays and had another elite game.

All of Mackinnon, Rants, Panarin, Kreider, Zeb are NHL top talents more than capable of finding goals and making plays.

The Flyers with the top scorer out of the lineup have essentially zeros out there trying to find a goal somewhere. Not exactly a strong test for a goalie.

 

[Slats432]

Average age of men who use “dither” in thread titles on HF: 83.

If I had my druthers the nose bagger would use lollygagger in the stead.

 

[Harry Curry]

Basic point look at the Rangers roster and see the stars on that team and tell me they are not capable of "filling the net" and the rangers per game are a topten GF team.

Next the AV's have weapons like Mackinnon, Rants, Nik. The AV's are still very dangerous and Mackinnon was involved in 4 of the scoring plays and had another elite game.

The Flyers with the top scorer out of the lineup have essentially zeros out there trying to find a goal somewhere. Not exactly a strong test for a goalie.

The Avalanche might have weapons, but they aren't "filing the net" they are 19th in the league for goals scored.

How is the 19th team in the league for scoring goals a strong test for a goalie? The contortions to put down Skinner and pump up Campbell are painful.

If the standard is now offensive potential of the other teams, despite results to the contrary 2/3rds of the way into the season, that is an admission there is no statistical basis for accusing me of being selective. lol

Skinner's faults are problems that can be worked on, but aren't debilitating in the interim. Campbell's issues appear to be structural and his weaknesses mentally make it a major uphill battle to fix them IMO.

Agreed. Skinner gave up two last night. He didn't play the first goal soundly. Should have been more active with his stick. That's something that can be worked on in practice.

 

[AM]

The Oilers have had McDavid and Draisaitl healthy most of the season. The Avs have lost MacKinnon and Makar for chunks of the season, not to mention that Landeskog has missed most of the season, they won the Cup last season with average goaltending. Colorado is levels above the rest of the west when healthy, I don't know who is that close tbh.

They aren’t the same team as last year.

 

[AM]

Our goaltending is the same as it has been for years. Some good play by both guys at times but way to many terrible goals by both guys. I am not at all comfortable with either one heading to the playoffs.

As for why the oilers are in the spot they are? Our medium level players simply do not bring it or play well often enough. Guys like Yamamoto, Pulijarvi, Foegle go huge parts of the year doing absolutely nothing but then go on mini heaters for short periods. Guys like Ceci and Kulak do not play steady enough games.

Medium as in medium paid and medium game responsibility. These are also the contracts that handcuff you cap wise, the big contracts don't kill you. The low end playes making nothing do not kill you, the guys getting 2.8-4 million not doing enough kill you.

It isn’t the goal tending.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's not a strength, but don't think it's a major consideration when comparing the goalies.

Skinner's faults are problems that can be worked on, but aren't debilitating in the interim. Campbell's issues appear to be structural and his weaknesses mentally make it a major uphill battle to fix them IMO.

Some of Campbells faults are pretty typical faults of goalies that have come in here and been exposed to the goalie coaching here. I think the goalies that have done best here either are most immune to goalie coaching and have their own game and experience (Smith) and goalies that have struggled have been made worse through the goalie coaching here. My own feel. But not uncommon comment. I think Campbell would be best to think about the play and style that got him here and to have some reservation about the goalie coaching on offer here. I would decline some of the advice.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Avalanche might have weapons, but they aren't "filing the net" they are 19th in the league for goals scored.

How is the 19th team in the league for scoring goals a strong test for a goalie? The contortions to put down Skinner and pump up Campbell are painful.

If the standard is now offensive potential of the other teams, despite results to the contrary 2/3rds of the way into the season, that is an admission there is no statistical basis for accusing me of being selective. lol



Agreed. Skinner gave up two last night. He didn't play the first goal soundly. Should have been more active with his stick. That's something that can be worked on in practice.

Mackinnon is one of the elite players in the world. Arguably he's shown to be maybe the 2nd most gifted forward in the world. He's quite a threat, on his own, and was involved in 4 of the goalies and the Oilers schemes failed in giving him adequate attention. Mackinnon was granted open ice and owned it. Mack and Rant are as elite as it gets as far as being weapons. Plus Colorado always bring their A game against us. They love to beat us. I wouldn't want to be in the pipes for either that one or the Rangers who also seem to love run and gun with us.

The Oilers as a team do a poor job of covering elite production players. Its a constant mystery why they don't attempt to blanket or cover more. If teams tried to go man on man on either McD or Drai it would be a disaster for them. But the Oilers grant that. its bout more than the goalies ultimately.

 

[Stoneman89]

Mackinnon is one of the elite players in the world. Arguably he's shown to be maybe the 2nd most gifted forward in the world. He's quite a threat, on his own, and was involved in 4 of the goalies and the Oilers schemes failed in giving him adequate attention. Mackinnon was granted open ice and owned it. Mack and Rant are as elite as it gets as far as being weapons. Plus Colorado always bring their A game against us. They love to beat us. I wouldn't want to be in the pipes for either that one or the Rangers who also seem to love run and gun with us.

The Oilers as a team do a poor job of covering elite production players. Its a constant mystery why they don't attempt to blanket or cover more. If teams tried to go man on man on either McD or Drai it would be a disaster for them. But the Oilers grant that. its bout more than the goalies ultimately.

Kevin Hayes coming down the wing and unleashing a shot, or Nate McKinnon?


Avs have had so many injuries this year, their 19th place standing in GF is a huge abberation. With an average year for injuries, they're probably top 5.

Skinner made a brilliant save in the 3rd period last night, but for the rest of the game, Philly's no name team (another one ravaged by injuries, albeit to an average team at best) played hard and smart, but the talent level was really low. I think Matt Berlin may have had a good chance to win this one, but you'd have to make sure he was awake for most of it.

 

[Harry Curry]

Avs have had so many injuries this year, their 19th place standing in GF is a huge abberation. With an average year for injuries, they're probably top 5.

We weren't discussing the Avs play in other seasons. We were discussing how the Avs played three days ago against the Oilers. The game where the Oilers had a 3 - 0 lead against the Makar less Avs. That was the game being used as an example of a team capable of "filling the net" as an excuse for Campbell's role in giving up that three goal lead.

 

[Stoneman89]

Great play by Shore to get his face smashed in by a stick and change the course of the game in our favour!

 

[RegDunlop]

You bet I like Campbell when he is not in net

Too funny!

 

[bellagiobob]

Please put him on retro IR!

 

[RegDunlop]

I know we've all watched it a bunch, but like what a move and the crazy amount of separation he creates after the spin.

I was actually going to post this last night.
Watched game by myself at work and I honestly broke out laughing when he split them

I so so so wanted home to score there.
Incredible!

 

[Mav3rick07]

Are we allowed to just like both our goalies in here? lol Campbell's been bad but I still want him to play and be better. Just look at his career, this is the worst season he's had. I don't think he's going to suck forever.

Nope, not allowed. Read the Oilers manual. It states you must pick one and hate the other. Just like Smith and Koskinen.

 

[CycloneSweep]

But make a trade already FFS.

Bouchard should be on the trade block. The guy has zero intensity and lacks focus, even when he’s passing and handling the puck, never mind defending.

CP should be a fun read tonight lol.

Petry 2.0

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They aren’t the same team as last year.

They're not, that doesn't mean they aren't scary. They buzzsawed the playoffs last year.

 

[bellagiobob]

Are we allowed to just like both our goalies in here? lol Campbell's been bad but I still want him to play and be better. Just look at his career, this is the worst season he's had. I don't think he's going to suck forever.

At times it’s like watching Groundhog Day in here. The same point made over and over again every day, same counter point made, and then repeated the next day. . But it is interesting that some fans do pick a side and never budge from it, no matter what.

 

[Weitz]

burn the tape of the first two periods. Play like the 3rd period the rest of the way and win the division !!

 

[The Panther]

I like both Skinner and Campbell, and I'm perfectly happy with the goaltending tandem (and you do need a tandem nowadays) that the Oilers have now. This hasn't been the case since.... I can't remember when. 2008 or something. So, I'm very happy with the goaltending, just as I expected going into the season. Campbell under-performed (putting it mildly) early on, and Skinner over-performed, and later Campbell had a nice strong run (which sadly appears to be over for now) while Skinner kind of flatlined a bit. But overall, I think it looks good going forward.

Clearly, Skinner has been the better performing goalie this season so far. Skinner is currently 16th in save percentage (min. 15 games played) and Campbell is 56th (which is only six places from worst in the League). But the recent resurgence of Campbell was impressive, even if I feel he regressed again in the past few games. Still, I think he's going to be fine in the long run. The coach has a great situation now for the playoffs -- just start the guy who's hot. When he cools off, play the other guy. It's that simple.

Those who criticize Skinner on here... um, have you lost your minds?? The guy played on the All Star team, has something like a .935 at even strength... and HE'S A FRICKING ROOKIE!!! Think about this for a minute. The last time the Oilers had a rookie goalie, who was drafted and developed by them, playing at All Star level, was Grant Fuhr 41 YEARS AGO. Think about this, please.

(The only negative point about Skinner -- and it's not his fault, per se -- is that the Oilers don't score as many goals when he's in net. For some inexplicable reason, they fill the net when Campbell's in, but don't when Skinner is. Does anyone have the numbers on what the team's GF is when each guy is in?)

I'm not worried about or anxious about Holland making a move. Holland has pulled a few rabbits out of his butt already in his tenure, and I'm sure he will again. But honestly, all the team really needs is another Desharnais-type (big, strong, right-shooting, rock solid D), which isn't the hardest thing to acquire.

(I must say, I am baffled by the Erik Karlsson talk. Holland can't be serious about this, can he? They don't need him.)

The main cause for concern, as I see it, is Yamamoto and Puljujarvi. These are the club's top forward draft-picks of the past 6-7 years, and both are turning out as minor-busts. Previously, I found Yamamoto's game good even when he wasn't scoring (and he did score 20 goals last year), but his play has regressed of late, to the point where he basically is doing nothing. And Puljujarvi got his 2nd chance with Kane's injury, and is doing nothing with that chance. Neither has any scoring touch whatsoever around the net.

Just imagine if one of those two (or any one of the last dozen forwards drafted) had turned out as a 35-goal sniper or a talented playmaker.

Anyway, the Oilers can score, so the immediate concern is getting another big, strong, shutdown D-man.

 

[Cloned]

Petry 2.0

Petry was a good skater. Bouchard isn’t.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Petry was a good skater. Bouchard isn’t.

Bouchards skating is fine, and in the last 20 games has gotten excellent results while paired with broberg.

Unfortunately this place always needs a scapegoat to be happy

 

[Cloned]

Bouchards skating is fine, and in the last 20 games has gotten excellent results while paired with broberg.

Unfortunately this place always needs a scapegoat to be happy

He was objectively terrible last night. And Petry was a far better skater.