Post-Game Talk: Oilers win despite Holland’s dithering

[Tobias Kahun]

He was objectively terrible last night. And Petry was a far better skater.

And petry had as many or more brain farts than Bouchard.

Bouchards offensive IQ is also much better than petrys

I guess we judge players based on a single game?

 

[Cloned]

And petry had as many or more brain farts than Bouchard.

Bouchards offensive IQ is also much better than petrys

I guess we judge players based on a single game?

Petry’s brain farts were never due to intensity. His issues (poise, decision making) got better with experience. Bouchard has a slow motor and typically that’s a trait that doesn’t change with experience or time. Petry also had the skating to cover for some of his deficiencies (like Nurse).

He’s been bad all season. Don’t let Broberg carrying him fool you.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Petry’s brain farts were never due to intensity. His issues (poise, decision making) got better with experience. Bouchard has a slow motor and typically that’s a trait that doesn’t change with experience or time.

He’s been bad all season. Don’t let Broberg carrying him fool you.

Neither player is carrying eachother on that pair.

They work well together, granted they’ve faced fairly easy competition.

 

[Cloned]

Neither player is carrying eachother on that pair.

They work well together, granted they’ve faced fairly easy competition.

Broberg can play decently with most others though. Not sure the same can be said for Bouchard.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Broberg can play decently with most others though. Not sure the same can be said for Bouchard.

Against easy competition maybe, we don’t know how well broberg will do against harder competition.

We already saw that Bouchard could handle a top 4 role with the proper partner last year

 

[Cloned]

Against easy competition maybe, we don’t know how well broberg will do against harder competition.

We already saw that Bouchard could handle a top 4 role with the proper partner last year

I’d still trade Bouchard first. His contract is about to get heftier and his play style is duplicated on the roster already.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I’d still trade Bouchard first. His contract is about to get heftier and his play style is duplicated on the roster already.

The only reason to trade Bouchard over barrie is he’ll hold more value in a trade when looking for an upgrade.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Broberg is really impressive this year.
I'm excited to see him be our best Dman in 2 years.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Broberg is really impressive this year.
I'm excited to see him be our best Dman in 2 years.

He has the potential, a long ways to go to be our best D though.

 

[Cloned]

The only reason to trade Bouchard over barrie is he’ll hold more value in a trade when looking for an upgrade.

And Barrie is a better defender right now, which is what matters in this window.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

And Barrie is a better defender right now, which is what matters in this window.

You’d think the actual results would back this up.

 

[K1984]

You’d think the actual results would back this up.

The advanced stats are one thing, but at the moment if a d-man on this team commits a "holy f*** are you dumb?" style of screw up there is about a 90% chance it is either being committed by Ceci or Bouchard. And that's with Bouchard playing the easiest minutes possible with a pretty quiet and reliable partner. He straight up struggles to recognize danger, plays at a snails pace, gets ruined by net front pressure and I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. In the Philly game Bouchard was basically doing all he could to give the game back to them on each shift he took down the stretch.

Bouchard is currently essentially unplayable below his own hash marks. It would be one thing if we had two other reliable right shot D men ahead of him that were very reliable defensively, but we don't. Under the current configuration we basically have to play Bouchard even if he's complete ass because nobody ahead of him can take on more minutes than they're already playing.

It's unfortunate that the right side isn't built properly enough to insulate a defensively incompetent Bouchard, but it is what it is.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The advanced stats are one thing, but at the moment if a d-man on this team commits a "holy f*** are you dumb?" style of screw up there is about a 90% chance it is either being committed by Ceci or Bouchard. And that's with Bouchard playing the easiest minutes possible with a pretty quiet and reliable partner. He straight up struggles to recognize danger, plays at a snails pace, gets ruined by net front pressure and I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. In the Philly game Bouchard was basically doing all he could to give the game back to them on each shift he took down the stretch.

Bouchard is currently essentially unplayable below his own hash marks. It would be one thing if we had two other reliable right shot D men ahead of him that were very reliable defensively, but we don't. Under the current configuration we basically have to play Bouchard even if he's complete ass because nobody ahead of him can take on more minutes than they're already playing.

It's unfortunate that the right side isn't built properly enough to insulate a defensively incompetent Bouchard, but it is what it is.

Its not just his advanced stats that are very good.

His actual results on the ice are also very good.

 

[K1984]

Its not just his advanced stats that are very good.

His actual results on the ice are also very good.

That's not what I'm seeing by any measure. Eye test he sucks, he hasn't scored a goal since November 28, doesn't have a point in 13 of his last 15 games, and is susceptible to routinely imploding against easy matchups.

All I see is an offensive D man that isn't producing any offense and can't defend easy matchups worth shit.

 

[Stoneman89]

Broberg can play decently with most others though. Not sure the same can be said for Bouchard.

Broberg has trouble playing with Ceci though. He simply can't handle those D to D passes that miss him by 6 feet.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

That's not what I'm seeing by any measure. Eye test he sucks, he hasn't scored a goal since November 28, doesn't have a point in 13 of his last 15 games, and is susceptible to routinely imploding against easy matchups.

All I see is an offensive D man that isn't producing any offense and can't defend easy matchups worth shit.

This is lots of talk for a D who in his last 20 games has a 1.92 GA/60.

"cant defend easy matchups worth shit", everything points to that being extremely wrong.

 

[K1984]

This is lots of talk for a D who in his last 20 games has a 1.92 GA/60.

"cant defend easy matchups worth shit", everything points to that being extremely wrong.

Are you trying to argue that he's actually defensively responsible?

I could venture a guess why his GA/60 isn't sky high (he plays primarily against the bottom 6; his partner is stable; luck), but it certainly isn't because he's actually good at defending.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Are you trying to argue that he's actually defensively responsible?

I could venture a guess why his GA/60 isn't sky high (he plays primarily against the bottom 6; his partner is stable; luck), but it certainly isn't because he's actually good at defending.

His GA is in line with his xGA. So while he's on the ice scoring chances are limited against.

Yes he plays easy minutes, but hes doing an excellent job against those matchups.

 

[K1984]

His GA is in line with his xGA. So while he's on the ice scoring chances are limited against.

Yes he plays easy minutes, but hes doing an excellent job against those matchups.

I think that's being generous, but agree to disagree. It isn't a made up proposition that he can't defend the front of the net whatsoever and struggles in his own end. He's not a reliable player in any situation other than bottom pair, easy matchup, easy deployment role (and even then I wouldn't exactly characterize him as reliable).

When I look at Bouchard I ask myself "is he going to help us win a cup within the next three years based on what I'm seeing now, or would he be more valuable to use in trade for a reliable replacement." To me it's a pretty easy answer if there's a deal like that out there. I'm getting tired of the days of hoping a player with major flaws figures it out only to be continually disappointed in their play as their salary escalates and trade value diminishes. If we had 5-6 years of track left to win I would be steadfast in wanting the Oilers to keep him, but with a shorter window I don't think it's worth the risk to hope to see if he figures it out. If he doesn't all we have is a more expensive, less tradeable version of the same problem.

Also - as Nielsen pointed out, the knives are going to start to come out for Bouchard fairly soon in this market, especially if he ends up making too much on the next deal. I'm not sure a player like him will be able to handle it.