Post-Game Talk: Oilers Wars: A New Hope

[McShogun99]

A bunch of us have been saying after the first month...Oilers just need adequate goaltending. Not superstar [though that'd be nice] level, just B to B+ grade goaltending. Its unfortunate Campbell started the year with D level but hopefully he comes around. Still scares me when hes in net.

.900 goaltending gets us top 3 in the division. .910 goaltending makes us a cup contender. Our offence is so good that we're in a wild card spot with sub .900 goaltending

 

[bone]

The Oilers have 4 good to great centers in McDavid, Leon, Nuge and McLeod that they can use to fill the 12th spot. I have always liked the idea of the 11-7 because all four of these guys are way better than shore. I also like the current lines and more so once Kane comes back.

Kane McDavid Kostin
Nuge Draisaitl Hyman
Holloway McLeod Yamamoto
Janmark Ryan

would still be a solid forward group if they moved JP and Foegele for space to improve the defense.

I like Kostin with McDavid and Kane. I think his physical game works well with McDavid. It also takes away concerns about teams taking liberties. Last night Kostin showed he was very quick to step in for McDavid.

I don't disagree with this approach with forwards as I think we're best with 11 forwards, but if JP and Foegele move out for an improvement on defense, that means we're adding another veteran quality d-man making 7 D a bad proposition at keeping said good d-men (Bob pointed out the 11-7 was a negative influence on contract negotiations with defensemen last summer).

Will be interesting to see how they handle Kane coming back. Will require LTIR on Murray and demotion of 3 players if one of which makes more than 1.125M, or 4 players if not one of them.

Clocks ticking on the $3M men, you'd think.

 

[K1984]

Foegele has been awful again. I stand by it. He's a dogf***er. He's not at all bringing the consistent vet energy that we brough him in here for. Really he doesn't bring that game 1/3 of the time. Which is a shame as he can be an effective forechecker that can create and compete for loose pucks. He can even make a play once in awhile. But when he's having dog games its hard not to notice and its interesting that Drai was vocal in the player meeting from reports and turns out Foegele benched. Not reading into it, just saying. Foegele is really the Anti Kostin. Mclovin is the guy that nobody is loving too much I suspect. Not his effort level and commitment. Whereas Kostin is costing this team nothing and being the player we expected others to be.

I don't think its too much to suggest the player meeting was involved somewhat in the *decision* to bring Kostin up to topline. I think the players probably commented on that and McDrai are clearly enjoying the contributions of Kostin. No support player has dug as deep as Kostin this season.

Foegele confuses me. In Carolina he was a consistent burr in the opposition's saddle and was impactful on the ice.

Here he's a complete puddle.

 

[bone]

.900 goaltending gets us top 3 in the division. .910 goaltending makes us a cup contender. Our offence is so good that we're in a wild card spot with sub .900 goaltending

Well the team average is already .900. Campbell at .900 would be 11 less GA making the team +9 vs. -2 with him in net.

However, their record with him is already 9-7-1. I'm not sure what it would actually do as a lot of his excess goals have come in blowouts one way or the other. The terrible team games vs. Carolina, Dallas, first Minnesota game and his bad start vs. Calgary account for almost 10 of his excess goals, and a Nashville blowout win another 1.5 of his excess goals. If the 11 goals against are removed from those 5 games, the results don't likely change except maybe the Calgary game which was only his 2nd start with a new team, so I can forgive that one.

Looking at xGF vs. xGA, if one were to assume having more xGF than xGA would result in a Win and the opposite a loss, Edmonton expected results with him in net would be 10-7 instead of 9-8. Now every point matters, of course, but despite his poor individual stats, he may not have impacted the actual results as much as we'd think. If anything I think he's just made their bad games look really bad, and allowed their good games to be closer than maybe they should have.

 

[McShogun99]

I don't disagree with this approach with forwards as I think we're best with 11 forwards, but if JP and Foegele move out for an improvement on defense, that means we're adding another veteran quality d-man making 7 D a bad proposition at keeping said good d-men (Bob pointed out the 11-7 was a negative influence on contract negotiations with defensemen last summer).

Will be interesting to see how they handle Kane coming back. Will require LTIR on Murray and demotion of 3 players if one of which makes more than 1.125M, or 4 players if not one of them.

Clocks ticking on the $3M men, you'd think.

JP is probably the first to go since the other team isn't committed to and extra year but the return will be horrible. Foegele probably gets bought out this summer since I doubt any team wants him at his current cap hit.

 

[Whyme]

.900 goaltending gets us top 3 in the division. .910 goaltending makes us a cup contender. Our offence is so good that we're in a wild card spot with sub .900 goaltending

I can't resist but state that when I broke Koskinen's career into smaller stretches last season I was told that .910 is a terrible sv% But I agree, it'd be inreresting to see what the Oilers could do with truly excellent goaltending.

 

[bone]

JP is probably the first to go since the other team isn't committed to and extra year but the return will be horrible. Foegele probably gets bought out this summer since I doubt any team wants him at his current cap hit.

If teams keep holding out for retention on JP or WF, the team may just need to consider waivers. If they get picked up, at least they didn't need to add to the trade or retain, but if they clear, I don't mind having one of them brewing in the minors waiting for the next injury or to jump in for the playoffs.

 

[K1984]

A bunch of us have been saying after the first month...Oilers just need adequate goaltending. Not superstar [though that'd be nice] level, just B to B+ grade goaltending. Its unfortunate Campbell started the year with D level but hopefully he comes around. Still scares me when hes in net.

He seems incapable of tracking the puck. I think that is the source of a lot of his problems with his scrambled positional play due a lot to not knowing where the puck is. I feel if he fixes this one thing a lot of the rest of the problems will fall into place.

On the second goal last night off the deflection he didn't appear to really see or track it until it was too late.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Foegele has been awful again. I stand by it. He's a dogf***er. He's not at all bringing the consistent vet energy that we brough him in here for. Really he doesn't bring that game 1/3 of the time. Which is a shame as he can be an effective forechecker that can create and compete for loose pucks. He can even make a play once in awhile. But when he's having dog games its hard not to notice and its interesting that Drai was vocal in the player meeting from reports and turns out Foegele benched. Not reading into it, just saying. Foegele is really the Anti Kostin. Mclovin is the guy that nobody is loving too much I suspect. Not his effort level and commitment. Whereas Kostin is costing this team nothing and being the player we expected others to be.

I don't think its too much to suggest the player meeting was involved somewhat in the *decision* to bring Kostin up to topline. I think the players probably commented on that and McDrai are clearly enjoying the contributions of Kostin. No support player has dug as deep as Kostin this season.

I agree about Foegele. Seems like a nice guy but as a player his game slips into complacency for a long stretch. That's a problem on a team that has probably too much of 'the nice guy' personality type and is missing a hard energy player type in its bottom six. Too inconsistent and non descrip on this team with not enough for the cap hit.

I'm curious where you read/heard details of the player's only meeting about Draisaitl speaking out. I don't doubt it but would like to read it for context. One thing I will disagree on, I doubt the players are driving personnel decisions coming from their own meeting. Woodcroft needed a spark following this team's droopy home play and said as much about patience having an expiration date. Kostin has had all arrows up and was clearly moving toward a top line look with Puljujarvi stalled out with consistent inconsistency.

Can't state how important player types like Hyman and Kane have been to re-setting this team's identity. Still need more hard, assertive hammer types in bottom six and the uni-dimensional d-corp. Outside of this team's super elites, there's been a fairly passive personality habit with this team.

 

[frag2]

He seems incapable of tracking the puck. I think that is the source of a lot of his problems with his scrambled positional play due a lot to not knowing where the puck is. I feel if he fixes this one thing a lot of the rest of the problems will fall into place.

On the second goal last night off the deflection he didn't appear to really see or track it until it was too late.

Yea thats a common complaint analysts have said about his game. He can't track well and that leads him to scramble around in the crease. When he makes the save, its wow. When he doesnt, its usually a goal.

The latter seems to happen far too often and like you said, stems from his inability to track the puck well.

I remember one ex-goalie mention on the radio...when the goalie once in a while has to scramble to make a save, that usually an indictment on the players upfront; when the goalie always scrambles though, that's on the goalie's fundamentals.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree about Foegele. Seems like a nice guy but as a player his game slips into complacency for a long stretch. That's a problem on a team that has probably too much of 'the nice guy' personality type and is missing a hard energy player type in its bottom six. Too inconsistent and non descrip on this team with not enough for the cap hit.

I'm curious where you read/heard details of the player's only meeting about Draisaitl speaking out. I don't doubt it but would like to read it for context. One thing I will disagree on, I doubt the players are driving personnel decisions coming from their own meeting. Woodcroft needed a spark following this team's droopy home play and said as much about patience having an expiration date. Kostin has had all arrows up and was clearly moving toward a top line look with Puljujarvi stalled out with consistent inconsistency.

Can't state how important player types like Hyman and Kane have been to re-setting this team's identity. Still need more hard, assertive hammer types in bottom six and the uni-dimensional d-corp. Outside of this team's super elites, there's been a fairly passive personality habit with this team.

It was contained in a couple of twitter feeds that people posted up here about the team meeting. It was stated Drai was outspoken, i don't of course know what was stated.

I don't have a twitter account myself so anything I saw I just saw posted here.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The Oilers have 4 good to great centers in McDavid, Leon, Nuge and McLeod that they can use to fill the 12th spot. I have always liked the idea of the 11-7 because all four of these guys are way better than shore. I also like the current lines and more so once Kane comes back.

Kane McDavid Kostin
Nuge Draisaitl Hyman
Holloway McLeod Yamamoto
Janmark Ryan

would still be a solid forward group if they moved JP and Foegele for space to improve the defense.

I like Kostin with McDavid and Kane. I think his physical game works well with McDavid. It also takes away concerns about teams taking liberties. Last night Kostin showed he was very quick to step in for McDavid.

I’ve mentioned this exact lineup before with Hyman and Kostin switched but I do think Kostin could work with Mcdavid as well for the reasons you pointed out. I think he’s got adequate skill and smarts but more importantly he seems like he loves being here and is motivated to succeed and be what the team needs him to be.

I said a couple weeks ago I liked the idea of Holloway and McLeod as part of a kid line. They’re both young, big, fast guys and have shown some chemistry, the team should look to build that. Toss Yama in and you’ve got a line that can bring energy, be defensively responsible, a nightmare on the forecheck and can chip in some offence.

Even with Ryan on the 4th line he can line up at C, he’s respectable in the face off circle and really our only right shot C which is good to have. So you could really cycle any fwd into that 4th line as needed.

If I was GM my game plan right now would be Jesse out for the best pick I could get and moving Foegele in a deal for a dman.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He seems incapable of tracking the puck. I think that is the source of a lot of his problems with his scrambled positional play due a lot to not knowing where the puck is. I feel if he fixes this one thing a lot of the rest of the problems will fall into place.

On the second goal last night off the deflection he didn't appear to really see or track it until it was too late.

I don't actually expect goalies to make stops on pucks that are deflected once or twice. Which I think it possibly was two deflections on way to net. Close in deflections in anycase with even medium velocity of shot it would be beyond reaction time to get those or to ascertain where the puck is headed. Making yourself big and coming out a bit are options to increase chances of stops but its often crapshoots with deflections.

Your post is confusing to me because goalies are unable to effectively track close in deflections in anycase. Human visual response time is not that quick to be able to do that with deflections close to net. Goalies may guess right,

In fact most of what I see goalies are told to use blocking save instead of reaction save on deflections. Because you can't really react to a close deflection at medium velocity shot.

Goaltenders: Blocking vs. Reacting Saves - CrossIceHockey.com

Before goaltenders can make a particular type of save, they must first size up the situation. Athleticism & puck-tracking ability is also a factor.

www.crossicehockey.com

Some hockey people think that a goalie can track deflections and design things like this to work on reactions.

Mitch Korn’s ingenious goalie drill to simulate deflections

The Washington Capitals tweeted video from practice Tuesday morning of an ingenious Mitch Korn goalie drill. To simulate a deflected shot, Korn…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

The trouble is that ramp is uniform and deflecting the shots similarly, not as in real game deflections where the puck could be headed anywhere, and high or low.

The mere fact that teams and players practice the art of deflection and pass shots as much as they do is it tricks the goalie, and/or changes angle of where puck is going. Added, deflections off point shots are even more difficult as either the original shot, or the point of deflection, or both, may be screened.

 

[SwedishFire]

I think if he does get another contract, it will be in the 1 million range per year. Term may only be for a year as well, to the player and the team‘s mutual desire - team gets a show me, player gets an I’ll show you contract. That said, I feel like JP already has decided to walk away from the NHL at the end of the season, given his earlier comments and doubts about being good enough. And he is right.


This.

You need strong defenders that can wear the other players down with their physical hitting. Oilers need a defeceman that can bring that every night, a Gudas, Schenn type.

They have Niemo, pair him with Ceci and make that 2nd pair.

The Oilers have 4 good to great centers in McDavid, Leon, Nuge and McLeod that they can use to fill the 12th spot. I have always liked the idea of the 11-7 because all four of these guys are way better than shore. I also like the current lines and more so once Kane comes back.

Kane McDavid Kostin
Nuge Draisaitl Hyman
Holloway McLeod Yamamoto
Janmark Ryan

would still be a solid forward group if they moved JP and Foegele for space to improve the defense.

I like Kostin with McDavid and Kane. I think his physical game works well with McDavid. It also takes away concerns about teams taking liberties. Last night Kostin showed he was very quick to step in for McDavid.

Im in for 7D 11F too.

If cap space is needed, trade fiest Pulju, and then Fogele if needed. For that extra D, great to have for a deep playoff. I like though having Fogele coming into playoff, I think he would be be useful, he is a bodycheck player.
If both Pulj and Fogele is traded, then there is no depth. Theb youbhave to find a 3rd liner for like 1-2 millions by trade.

I want to spread it out more
Nuge McDavid Kostin
Kane Draisaitl Hyman
Holloway McLeod Yamamoto
Järnmark Doubleshift Ryan

 

[SwedishFire]

I don't disagree with this approach with forwards as I think we're best with 11 forwards, but if JP and Foegele move out for an improvement on defense, that means we're adding another veteran quality d-man making 7 D a bad proposition at keeping said good d-men (Bob pointed out the 11-7 was a negative influence on contract negotiations with defensemen last summer).

Will be interesting to see how they handle Kane coming back. Will require LTIR on Murray and demotion of 3 players if one of which makes more than 1.125M, or 4 players if not one of them.

Clocks ticking on the $3M men, you'd think.

Really having a hard time seeing Pulju stay here for longer. They cant even pump up his tradevalue. And his cap is needed when kane comes back.

Fogele I want to keep for depth.

At this point I think a Puljujärvi for future considerations is a no-brainer.
Instead of being a patt of a rrade dor Dman where we retain on him, while we send Fogele for like a 4 or 5th rounder for cap space.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I don't actually expect goalies to make stops on pucks that are deflected once or twice. Which I think it possibly was two deflections on way to net. Close in deflections in anycase with even medium velocity of shot it would be beyond reaction time to get those or to ascertain where the puck is headed. Making yourself big and coming out a bit are options to increase chances of stops but its often crapshoots with deflections.

Your post is confusing to me because goalies are unable to effectively track close in deflections in anycase. Human visual response time is not that quick to be able to do that with deflections close to net. Goalies may guess right,

Some hockey people think that a goalie can track deflections and design things like this to work on reactions.

Mitch Korn’s ingenious goalie drill to simulate deflections

The Washington Capitals tweeted video from practice Tuesday morning of an ingenious Mitch Korn goalie drill. To simulate a deflected shot, Korn…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

The trouble is that ramp is uniform and deflecting the shots similarly, not as in real game deflections where the puck could be headed anywhere, and high or low.

Campbell hasn't been good. There are technical and equipment issues that have required wholesale changes along with a reset mental approach. That being said, I don't know if a goaltender has had as bad luck as Campbell has had with many strange goals and frankly bizarre deflections. Very bad luck compounding the issues but a symptom too of the passive defense in front of him who are woeful at blocking out and at aggressive, heavy play in high scoring areas.

Last night was a very positive game against a strong non-conference opponent with an elite goaltender. Lots to be positive about for Campbell to get some momentum and confidence in his game. That double deflection simply cannot be blamed on any goaltender. This game is played at the highest rate of speed in the world with collisions and random chaos a huge part of it. Thinking a goalie should stop a high speed shot attempt that caroms off of two players is just not realistic.

As you said, the Korn drill is well intended. But without a body in front to distract goaltender vision and frankly the random movement reality of puck movement from deflection, it's a well meaning, but pretty useless drill. Maybe helps support some vision puck tracking but ...

 

[Oilhawks]

I don't actually expect goalies to make stops on pucks that are deflected once or twice. Which I think it possibly was two deflections on way to net. Close in deflections in anycase with even medium velocity of shot it would be beyond reaction time to get those or to ascertain where the puck is headed. Making yourself big and coming out a bit are options to increase chances of stops but its often crapshoots with deflections.

Your post is confusing to me because goalies are unable to effectively track close in deflections in anycase. Human visual response time is not that quick to be able to do that with deflections close to net. Goalies may guess right,

In fact most of what I see goalies are told to use blocking save instead of reaction save on deflections. Because you can't really react to a close deflection at medium velocity shot.

Goaltenders: Blocking vs. Reacting Saves - CrossIceHockey.com

Before goaltenders can make a particular type of save, they must first size up the situation. Athleticism & puck-tracking ability is also a factor.

www.crossicehockey.com

Some hockey people think that a goalie can track deflections and design things like this to work on reactions.

Mitch Korn’s ingenious goalie drill to simulate deflections

The Washington Capitals tweeted video from practice Tuesday morning of an ingenious Mitch Korn goalie drill. To simulate a deflected shot, Korn…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

The trouble is that ramp is uniform and deflecting the shots similarly, not as in real game deflections where the puck could be headed anywhere, and high or low.

Deflections are tough to stop, the only time it bothers me if it's almost constant and happens multiple times a game (ex the Chicago series was too many f***ing deflections, a lot off of Oilers D being in bad spots). I'm pretty sure that one last night went off Barrie before Clusterf***. Pretty much impossible to stop, and I don't blame Barrie on it either as his positioning I thought was okay (but could have been a bit better). Like you said, goalies that are smaller or are 'playing small' seem to let more deflections in (understandably as the way to stop a deflection is just taking up space). Koskinen was brutal with these I feel as well, perhaps worse than Campbell has been, who has had more against than I'd like but not egregious.

 

[K1984]

I don't actually expect goalies to make stops on pucks that are deflected once or twice. Which I think it possibly was two deflections on way to net. Close in deflections in anycase with even medium velocity of shot it would be beyond reaction time to get those or to ascertain where the puck is headed. Making yourself big and coming out a bit are options to increase chances of stops but its often crapshoots with deflections.

Your post is confusing to me because goalies are unable to effectively track close in deflections in anycase. Human visual response time is not that quick to be able to do that with deflections close to net. Goalies may guess right,

In fact most of what I see goalies are told to use blocking save instead of reaction save on deflections. Because you can't really react to a close deflection at medium velocity shot.

Goaltenders: Blocking vs. Reacting Saves - CrossIceHockey.com

Before goaltenders can make a particular type of save, they must first size up the situation. Athleticism & puck-tracking ability is also a factor.

www.crossicehockey.com

Some hockey people think that a goalie can track deflections and design things like this to work on reactions.

Mitch Korn’s ingenious goalie drill to simulate deflections

The Washington Capitals tweeted video from practice Tuesday morning of an ingenious Mitch Korn goalie drill. To simulate a deflected shot, Korn…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

The trouble is that ramp is uniform and deflecting the shots similarly, not as in real game deflections where the puck could be headed anywhere, and high or low.

The mere fact that teams and players practice the art of deflection and pass shots as much as they do is it tricks the goalie, and/or changes angle of where puck is going. Added, deflections off point shots are even more difficult as either the original shot, or the point of deflection, or both, may be screened.

It's case by case for me. Drives me a bit crazy when people reflexively absolve goalies from responsibility to save any deflected shot because plenty of tipped shots are savable and are saved more often than not. "Oh well it was tipped so can't fault him at all!" is actually probably my biggest bad narrative pet peeve in hockey to be honest. To me it depends on the severity and speed of the deflection combined with a judgement of the goalie's positioning/reaction to the shot.

I'm not pinning the second goal last night on Campbell per se, but to me it looked like he was slow picking up where the puck was and his reaction time was slow as a result. I would however pin the winning goal against the Jets on him. He was too deep, down too soon and again didn't appear to have a good eye on the puck even before it was tipped.

 

[bucks_oil]

He seems incapable of tracking the puck. I think that is the source of a lot of his problems with his scrambled positional play due a lot to not knowing where the puck is. I feel if he fixes this one thing a lot of the rest of the problems will fall into place.

On the second goal last night off the deflection he didn't appear to really see or track it until it was too late.

Totally with you on that one. I said to my wife "you see, that's his F'n problem... if he is in a controlled slide to track that puck even though it is going wide, he could be square to the puck at the moment it is deflected".

He didn't track it (I think he saw it, it was just way wide and he was lazy) and so when the unexpected deflection happens he was already out of position.

I have noticed his new Brian's gear appears to suit him better in butterfly, the fiver is a little more closed than it was with his Vaughns... still his butterfly even looks leaky.

In contrast, you have a peek at the other end and you see the technically sound Sorokin. I'd kill to have that guy.

At least Skinner is looking super solid (in general). For a big guy he is plenty mobile and plays right at the top of his crease. He's making his job (and his defender's job) easy that way.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Campbell hasn't been good. There are technical and equipment issues that have required wholesale changes along with a reset mental approach. That being said, I don't know if a goaltender has had as bad luck as Campbell has had with many strange goals and frankly bizarre deflections. Very bad luck compounding the issues but a symptom too of the passive defense in front of him who are woeful at blocking out and at aggressive, heavy play in high scoring areas.

Last night was a very positive game against a strong non-conference opponent with an elite goaltender. Lots to be positive about for Campbell to get some momentum and confidence in his game. That double deflection simply cannot be blamed on any goaltender. This game is played at the highest rate of speed in the world with collisions and random chaos a huge part of it. Thinking a goalie should stop a high speed shot attempt that caroms off of two players is just not realistic.

As you said, the Korn drill is well intended. But without a body in front to distract goaltender vision and frankly the random movement reality of puck movement from deflection, it's a well meaning, but pretty useless drill. Maybe helps support some vision puck tracking but ...

Good post. The Korn drill is an example of people thinking they are doing something valid, that helps, without knowing the nature of what they are doing. Without understanding the rudiments of human reaction time or human visual response time factored into human reaction time.

I'm a good Tennis player. One of the drills I used to do a lot was practice for an hour with a Tennis wall hitting the ball everywhere and trying to get to the shots. But the thing is I know where I'm putting the shots so that I can *react* to where the bounce goes. Even on misshits I can react because nobody is screening me. But this is one of the things that makes a sport like Racquetball so much more difficult than Tennis is that often the other player is screening you and they try to do it on purpose because its so effective in limiting your tracking. I was very good at tennis, and very much sucked at Racquetball.

While theres growing research in whether humans improve reaction times using different methods pro goalies would be doing these anyway. I know Dubnyk took such training and went into detail about it. But thats limited and still only applies to pucks you can track.

 

[bone]

It's case by case for me. Drives me a bit crazy when people reflexively absolve goalies from responsibility to save any deflected shot because plenty of tipped shots are savable and are saved more often than not. "Oh well it was tipped so can't fault him at all!" is actually probably my biggest bad narrative pet peeve in hockey to be honest. To me it depends on the severity and speed of the deflection combined with a judgement of the goalie's positioning/reaction to the shot.

I'm not pinning the second goal last night on Campbell per se, but to me it looked like he was slow picking up where the puck was and his reaction time was slow as a result. I would however pin the winning goal against the Jets on him. He was too deep, down too soon and again didn't appear to have a good eye on the puck even before it was tipped.

Precisely. Last nights was a pretty drastic change in direction (possibly twice) so I'll never blame a goalie on one like that but ones where the player is in the lane when the shot is taken, the goalie should anticipate at least the potential for a small change of angle adjust their stance to be covering as much of the net as possible instead of focussing just the shot itself.

 

[K1984]

Totally with you on that one. I said to my wife "you see, that's his F'n problem... if he is in a controlled slide to track that puck even though it is going wide, he could be square to the puck at the moment it is deflected".

He didn't track it (I think he saw it, it was just way wide and he was lazy) and so when the unexpected deflection happens he was already out of position.

I have noticed his new Brian's gear appears to suit him better in butterfly, the fiver is a little more closed than it was with his Vaughns... still his butterfly even looks leaky.

In contrast, you have a peek at the other end and you see the technically sound Sorokin. I'd kill to have that guy.

At least Skinner is looking super solid (in general). For a big guy he is plenty mobile and plays right at the top of his crease. He's making his job (and his defender's job) easy that way.

Interesting - I'm slowly trying to learn more about the technical aspects of goaltending and Campbell is helping me because seeing what not to do makes knowing what to do a lot easier to pick out haha.

I would have pinned his slow reaction on poor puck focus rather than laziness, but now I see what you're saying. If he just slides post to post with the direction of the shot that hits him every time. Instead he was centered and had to try and stick his leg out on a reaction play.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's case by case for me. Drives me a bit crazy when people reflexively absolve goalies from responsibility to save any deflected shot because plenty of tipped shots are savable and are saved more often than not. "Oh well it was tipped so can't fault him at all!" is actually probably my biggest bad narrative pet peeve in hockey to be honest. To me it depends on the severity and speed of the deflection combined with a judgement of the goalie's positioning/reaction to the shot.

I'm not pinning the second goal last night on Campbell per se, but to me it looked like he was slow picking up where the puck was and his reaction time was slow as a result. I would however pin the winning goal against the Jets on him. He was too deep, down too soon and again didn't appear to have a good eye on the puck even before it was tipped.

I'm not absolving goalies and I went into great detail on this. You stated tracking in regards to close deflections. yet that isn't what goalies are trained to do. For close in deflections goalies are to track as much as they can to be square to puck, and to be in block vs reactionary stance to seal leaks. In otherwords goalies have a few weapons at disposal in handling close deflections and thats basically to increase probability that they covering as much area as possible. A well tipped shot finding a perfect spot is going in a lot of the time. Close in deflections are very hard on goalies and thus why its done.

The reason I don't get into blaming goalies on close deflections is that the direction of the puck is by nature very random. Unpredictable. Indeed it would be the worst way to effectively evaluate a goalie because you would be more likely evaluating random chance. The goalies curse, always, is the seeing eye deflected puck that gets in that small gap and beats almost any goalie. A large part of it is luck (where its going, not whether the puck is tipped, some players are very good at making contact) but where the puck goes.

Its just part of what makes goaltending such a superstitious position. You can really start thinking you're just cursed with some bad luck.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Interesting - I'm slowly trying to learn more about the technical aspects of goaltending and Campbell is helping me because seeing what not to do makes knowing what to do a lot easier to pick out haha.

I would have pinned his slow reaction on poor puck focus rather than laziness, but now I see what you're saying. If he just slides post to post with the direction of the shot that hits him every time. Instead he was centered and had to try and stick his leg out on a reaction play.

I know you're joking but.. As good or bad as Campbell is he's not showing a lot of "what not to do" This is the highest level of play in the world and with goalies facing the highest velocity shots in world and most talented players.

I'm not sure I agree either as Campbell is more a block goalie than a reaction goalie. Although neither is too evident with him. The Dubnyk version that we had here was a Block goalie. He was doing that becuase he had not sufficient tracking to be confident in it. But the degree to which he would block, and not even make a glove save on a puck going higher would drive me nuts. He fixed that for awhile by improving his tracking and focusing on that so that he could increase his reaction movements confidently.

 

[Fourier]

I don't disagree with this approach with forwards as I think we're best with 11 forwards, but if JP and Foegele move out for an improvement on defense, that means we're adding another veteran quality d-man making 7 D a bad proposition at keeping said good d-men (Bob pointed out the 11-7 was a negative influence on contract negotiations with defensemen last summer).

Will be interesting to see how they handle Kane coming back. Will require LTIR on Murray and demotion of 3 players if one of which makes more than 1.125M, or 4 players if not one of them.

Clocks ticking on the $3M men, you'd think.

To make the cap work they may well have to go 11-6 on some nights.

It's not ideal but even if they add a vet I think they would be better giving the kids a chance to rotate on the back end that they would playing shore a few minutes a game.