Post-Game Talk: Oilers Wars: A New Hope

[bucks_oil]

I don't actually expect goalies to make stops on pucks that are deflected once or twice. Which I think it possibly was two deflections on way to net. Close in deflections in anycase with even medium velocity of shot it would be beyond reaction time to get those or to ascertain where the puck is headed. Making yourself big and coming out a bit are options to increase chances of stops but its often crapshoots with deflections.

Your post is confusing to me because goalies are unable to effectively track close in deflections in anycase. Human visual response time is not that quick to be able to do that with deflections close to net. Goalies may guess right,

In fact most of what I see goalies are told to use blocking save instead of reaction save on deflections. Because you can't really react to a close deflection at medium velocity shot.

Goaltenders: Blocking vs. Reacting Saves - CrossIceHockey.com

Before goaltenders can make a particular type of save, they must first size up the situation. Athleticism & puck-tracking ability is also a factor.

www.crossicehockey.com

Some hockey people think that a goalie can track deflections and design things like this to work on reactions.

Mitch Korn’s ingenious goalie drill to simulate deflections

The Washington Capitals tweeted video from practice Tuesday morning of an ingenious Mitch Korn goalie drill. To simulate a deflected shot, Korn…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

The trouble is that ramp is uniform and deflecting the shots similarly, not as in real game deflections where the puck could be headed anywhere, and high or low.

The mere fact that teams and players practice the art of deflection and pass shots as much as they do is it tricks the goalie, and/or changes angle of where puck is going. Added, deflections off point shots are even more difficult as either the original shot, or the point of deflection, or both, may be screened.

It's all case by case for me.

Most of the work in stopping a deflection is battling to have good square position, a nice line of sight and decent angles on the shot itself.

From there you've put in the work and it comes down to luck, reflexes and whether the deflection is in a direction that is natural for you to move.

What might look "weak" to you guys can be totally excusable to me... for example if a goalie's arm is going up or leg is going out and a deflection happens to the 7 or 5 hole, it's going to be against the grain of his movement and nearly impossible to stop, even if he gets a bunch of it and it leaks through. You might call it weak since he almost had it and "shoulda squeezed", but I usually think he did pretty well even to get a piece.

In contrast, a goalie might be expecting the shot 5-hole, be down in a proper butterfly and the deflection is going past his toe... a quick flare save looks awesome but is pretty standard to make as long as you were square, planted and with sight-lines to be begin with.

Deflections further out, might look like they should be more savable since there is more time to react, but it depends where the goalie was moving in the first place and whether they are able to pick up the trajectory off the deflection. Your pads don't have brakes, so it's pretty easy to have a deflection flutter past you if you were moving in the opposite direction.

I wasn't a big fan of either goal on Campbell last night. They looked totally excusable, but if it were me (I'm a small goalie too), I'd be mad at myself on Barzal's since I was late getting to the top of the paint... it might have grazed my shoulder with good positioning. And on the deflection, I agree with K1984, he was a bit late tracking that puck. If he'd been following it across the crease in case there were a deflection (that's part of the job, knowing where deflections might come from) then he'd have had it. On a grading scale, these are B- sorts of mistakes rather than F's, but they indicate where his game is at right now... some low-energy, low-confidence, bad habits have crept into his game.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Deflections are tough to stop, the only time it bothers me if it's almost constant and happens multiple times a game (ex the Chicago series was too many f***ing deflections, a lot off of Oilers D being in bad spots). I'm pretty sure that one last night went off Barrie before Clusterf***. Pretty much impossible to stop, and I don't blame Barrie on it either as his positioning I thought was okay (but could have been a bit better). Like you said, goalies that are smaller or are 'playing small' seem to let more deflections in (understandably as the way to stop a deflection is just taking up space). Koskinen was brutal with these I feel as well, perhaps worse than Campbell has been, who has had more against than I'd like but not egregious.

In that Chicago series the Oilers were bad at two things. Getting to the point to challenge shots or contest the time they had back there and in screening thier own goalie with often multiple guys in there in the path. Oddly enough being sieves not blocking a thing. heh

The Winnipeg series was the same btw. So many of their goals were originating from the point.

Yep, it was Barrie-Clusterf*** deflection. Not much you can do about those.

Not expanded on but bigger goalies have an inate advantage on deflections all other things being equal in skill, positioning etc.

The thing I always get with Hellbuck is the guy is a monster. 6ft4 (seems more) and 210 pads and due to height he seems to have bigger pads as well. Not sure how well NHL has been checking or cracking down on such things but his pads appear huge.

 

[K1984]

I know you're joking but.. As good or bad as Campbell is he's not showing a lot of "what not to do" This is the highest level of play in the world and with goalies facing the highest velocity shots in world and most talented players.

I'm not sure I agree either as Campbell is more a block goalie than a reaction goalie. Although neither is too evident with him. The Dubnyk version that we had here was a Block goalie. He was doing that becuase he had not sufficient tracking to be confident in it. But the degree to which he would block, and not even make a glove save on a puck going higher would drive me nuts. He fixed that for awhile by improving his tracking and focusing on that so that he could increase his reaction movements confidently.

Don't know enough about the technical problems in Campbell's game to pinpoint exactly where he's bad in every area, but the results speak for themselves.

Rebound control - as bad as I've ever seen in a goalie
Puck tracking - clearly poor
Positioning - always getting beat high as a constant
Pucks always hitting him and still going through

All the other goalies in the league face the same type of chances and don't implode on them with the same consistency Campbell does so there is obviously a lot wrong with his technical game. As a layman I think most of his issues are a combination of basically not being able to track the puck at all and being too deep/going down too early in his net. I'm not sure if those two things are even debatable as major issues he has at the moment.

 

[bucks_oil]

I know you're joking but.. As good or bad as Campbell is he's not showing a lot of "what not to do" This is the highest level of play in the world and with goalies facing the highest velocity shots in world and most talented players.

I'm not sure I agree either as Campbell is more a block goalie than a reaction goalie. Although neither is too evident with him. The Dubnyk version that we had here was a Block goalie. He was doing that becuase he had not sufficient tracking to be confident in it. But the degree to which he would block, and not even make a glove save on a puck going higher would drive me nuts. He fixed that for awhile by improving his tracking and focusing on that so that he could increase his reaction movements confidently.

After even an intermediate level of play, lots guys can rip the puck at NHL velocity (maybe not accuracy). At that point most of the game of goaltending (since reflexes largely and athleticism to a lessor extent have already been mostly "selected for" and they don't vary that much from one guy to the next) comes down to tactics, technique, mental focus and consistency.

It's not that hard for a mid-level amateur to pick out pro-level mistakes... they are the same mistakes we make (we just make them more often).

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's all case by case for me.

Most of the work in stopping a deflection is battling to have good square position, a nice line of sight and decent angles on the shot itself.

From there you've put in the work and it comes down to luck, reflexes and whether the deflection is in a direction that is natural for you to move.

What might look "weak" to you guys can be totally excusable to me... for example if a goalie's arm is going up or leg is going out and a deflection happens to the 7 or 5 hole, it's going to be against the grain of his movement and nearly impossible to stop, even if he gets a bunch of it and it leaks through. You might call it weak since he almost had it and "shoulda squeezed", but I usually think he did pretty well even to get a piece.

In contrast, a goalie might be expecting the shot 5-hole, be down in a proper butterfly and the deflection is going past his toe... a quick flare save looks awesome but is pretty standard to make as long as you were square, planted and with sight-lines to be begin with.

Deflections further out, might look like they should be more savable since there is more time to react, but it depends where the goalie was moving in the first place and whether they are able to pick up the trajectory off the deflection. Your pads don't have brakes, so it's pretty easy to have a deflection flutter past you if you were moving in the opposite direction.

I wasn't a big fan of either goal on Campbell last night. They looked totally excusable, but if it were me (I'm a small goalie too), I'd be mad at myself on Barzal's since I was late getting to the top of the paint... it might have grazed my shoulder with good positioning. And on the deflection, I agree with K1984, he was a bit late tracking that puck. If he'd been following it across the crease in case there were a deflection (that's part of the job, knowing where deflections might come from) then he'd have had it. On a grading scale, these are B- sorts of mistakes rather than F's, but they indicate where his game is at right now... some low-energy, low-confidence, bad habits have crept into his game.

Thanks much for taking the time and know that your comments are respected. Good feedback. I try to learn as much as I can and I was a goalie but didn't play hockey at a high level. One of the confidence things that strikes me is the goalie small thing where they are too low, too crouched. I was good at being back straight up even while down on pads and like to lean forward too ala Smith to seal top of net better. But I goaltended in a different age where a poke check was just as likely so what do I know. heh

In fairness the deflection was Barrie-Clutterbuck so that I don't agree that pinball was as trackable. heh

 

[tardigrade81]

If we could get out of the wild card spot. That would be great

I would rather not play Dallas in the opening round

Shades of the 5 or 6 straight years of losing to them in the playoffs in the 90’s and 2000’s lol

 

[Drivesaitl]

After even an intermediate level of play, lots guys can rip the puck at NHL velocity (maybe not accuracy). At that point most of the game of goaltending (since reflexes largely and athleticism to a lessor extent have already been mostly "selected for" and they don't vary that much from one guy to the next) comes down to tactics, technique, mental focus and consistency.

It's not that hard for a mid-level amateur to pick out pro-level mistakes... they are the same mistakes we make (we just make them more often).

Conceptually I disagree with this because we're not on ice facing the best shooters and most talented players on the ice. I think it can even be a very common human trait to self determine that we can do something as well or better than elites. Mostly what we may not pick up on is other player variables. NHL players are much better at faking shooting, passing off, or doing the unexpected so that the rock paper scissors is on a whole other level and not even anticipated necessarily. I mean we're talking about a level of player where a player like gretz was seeing where every other player on the ice was by using reflections on glass or hearing skating... Its 4d shit mortals don't pick up on.

For instance, just example, poor one, I study Chess tournament moves. I've done this for 50yrs because I love Chess. So that you go through game, tournament moves players make occasionally thinking you know better moves, and sometimes, rarely, you do, and indeed commentators will comment on moves and go over minutiae about all possibilities, tangents and only in consensus do people start to think, really, that they found an error, or a path not taken. Then the player himself or some other grandmaster, sometimes interjects and comments that if he chose the suggested moves that this occurs 5moves later, that nobody else saw...

Its totally disconnected, I realize, but it does point out that we think we can do a lot better than we probably can. Humans in general over evaluate their assessment ability. I can make that almost as a broad, general comment.

Not saying you were suggesting this, just a response.

 

[bucks_oil]

Thanks much for taking the time and know that your comments are respected. Good feedback. I try to learn as much as I can and I was a goalie but didn't play hockey at a high level. One of the confidence things that strikes me is the goalie small thing where they are too low, too crouched. I was good at being back straight up even while down on pads and like to lean forward too ala Smith to seal top of net better. But I goaltended in a different age where a poke check was just as likely so what do I know. heh

In fairness the deflection was Barrie-Clutterbuck so that I don't agree that pinball was as trackable. heh

Trackable: what I mean is that if he'd tracked the original trajectory across the net (it was going pretty much to the corner), then he'd have had a chance when the trajectory changed because he'd have been square to the puck at that moment. It's hard to explain but just think of a D to far face-off dot pass. I know where the puck is going (I'm aware of the guy there for the one timer), but even still at every moment during that 50 feet of puck travel, I'm trying to time the 6 feet to distance I need to cover such that I'm square if you were to freeze-frame. I obviously try not to get there too late, but I don't want to get there too early either, just in case a deflection happens on the way.

I hear you on the "playing big" and having your back straight. That's good technique and as a shorter goalie, I need to do the same... keep a strong core so that I'm fully upright from knee to shoulder even when in butterfly.

And don't ever diss the poke check... those of us old enough to have learned it can still surprise a younger player now and again (and we also learned how to control rebounds with our stick, and knife them into the netting for a draw, which is a dying art)

 

[Stoneman89]

.900 goaltending gets us top 3 in the division. .910 goaltending makes us a cup contender. Our offence is so good that we're in a wild card spot with sub .900 goaltending

I'm still very concerned about our defence, and defensive makeup. I don't think it is a contending defence, as presently constructed. You can only score your way out of so many deficiencies. I think it finally caught up to us last year, and will again this year, if we make the playoffs.

 

[McShogun99]

If we could get out of the wild card spot. That would be great

I would rather not play Dallas in the opening round

Shades of the 5 or 6 straight years of losing to them in the playoffs in the 90’s and 2000’s lol

I just can't see LA and Seattle holding on to a top 3 spot because of their goaltending but that's the same problem us and Calgary are currently having. Whichever one of those 4 teams can get good goaltending the rest of the way will get the 2 and 3 spot. The Pacific is actually quite pathetic right now with Vegas being the only team getting consistently good goaltending.

 

[Stoneman89]

Trackable: what I mean is that if he'd tracked the original trajectory across the net (it was going pretty much to the corner), then he'd have had a chance when the trajectory changed because he'd have been square to the puck at that moment. It's hard to explain but just think of a D to far face-off dot pass. I know where the puck is going (I'm aware of the guy there for the one timer), but even still at every moment during that 50 feet of puck travel, I'm trying to time the 6 feet to distance I need to cover such that I'm square if you were to freeze-frame. I obviously try not to get there too late, but I don't want to get there too early either, just in case a deflection happens on the way.

I hear you on the "playing big" and having your back straight. That's good technique and as a shorter goalie, I need to do the same... keep a strong core so that I'm fully upright from knee to shoulder even when in butterfly.

And don't ever diss the poke check... those of us old enough to have learned it can still surprise a younger player now and again (and we also learned how to control rebounds with our stick, and knife them into the netting for a draw, which is a dying art)

I remember reading an article by Jonathan Quick in The Athletic, and he said vehemently, that if he had to rely on his reflexes, he would have been out of the league a long time ago. Back in the Great Ones Days and before, due to lack of bulky pads, goalies really had to rely on agility and reflexes for the most part. Not too many positional guys with much success back in the day. Now, in addition to great reflexes and agility, the main component is positioning and technique. The big glove save when slowed down on replay, really shows the glove is pretty much already there, but the showmen like to throw it up in the air after the puck hits it. Patrick Roy was famous for that (probably to get into the heads of shooters to think he was a cat, and could never be beaten).

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The goaltender discussion is interesting. So many pieces involved which make it so complex - technical, physical, mental, and emotional. There is a significant gap from fans to those that stop pucks for money and the consequences of failing to do so that are at next level mental toughness, resiliency and grit. With benefit of distance to that cold reality we can all assess and find flaws in what we can see, at times, whether technical or equipment. No way can hockey posters walk in the reality of an NHL goaltender facing apex competition and requirement of an exceptional mental strength to weather the ups and downs of games with a very clear light that literally goes on when shit hits the fan whether from what you can control or not. The success of goaltending is so fundamentally interdependent on the play of yourself and those five individuals in front of you at any given time.

Mitch Korn gives a good introduction here of the three pillars of goaltending, physical, mental and emotional. Followed by a great walkthrough of daily, DAILY preparation to be ready to play (a good former Saskatoon Blade tender and Cup Winner). Worth a watch:

We're in a comfortable spot to dissect without the consequences and rewards associated with making and playing at the apex level of competition in the world.

 

[tardigrade81]

I just can't see LA and Seattle holding on to a top 3 spot because of their goaltending but that's the same problem us and Calgary are currently having. Whichever one of those 4 teams can get good goaltending the rest of the way will get the 2 and 3 spot. The Pacific is actually quite pathetic right now with Vegas being the only team getting consistently good goaltending.

I agree

Honestly I would much rather play Vegas than Dallas first round if I had a choice

Edmontons goaltending is up in the air right now. Skinner is our guy but he didn’t look so hot last start. We really need Campbell to keep playing half decent the way he has the last three starts. He needs to take some pressure off Skinner

My worry is Skinner is going to get burnt out

 

[Ibanez]

Foegele is such a weird player to me. He's got the size and speed to be a really impactful forward. But he rarely uses his body to protect pucks and he's a really poor puck handler.

He came here complaining of a lack of opportunity to play scoring minutes in Carolina and every time he gets the opportunity in Edmonton, his game flatlines.

I like him on the third line at times. But I've never seen a good stretch of him with Draisaitl or McDavid.

It’s simple. When he bangs people around with his body he’s effective and noticeable. If not, hes as trustworthy as dandelion fluff floating in the wind…

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'm still very concerned about our defence, and defensive makeup. I don't think it is a contending defence, as presently constructed. You can only score your way out of so many deficiencies. I think it finally caught up to us last year, and will again this year, if we make the playoffs.

Our sub .900 status isn't only on our goaltending, it's more on our defensive structure and systems play. I don't care who is in net, if we constantly leave the opposition open in prime scoring position or give up odd man rushes, our goalies numbers will take a massive hit.

 

[McShogun99]

I agree

Honestly I would much rather play Vegas than Dallas first round if I had a choice

Edmontons goaltending is up in the air right now. Skinner is our guy but he didn’t look so hot last start. We really need Campbell to keep playing half decent the way he has the last three starts. He needs to take some pressure off Skinner

My worry is Skinner is going to get burnt out

I've been a fan of Campbell since his draft year and I think he will bounce back. He's never been this bad before but there's so many factors in play that he needs to get used to. New team, city, system, the pressure of signing your first big contract and having to perform. I don't know if he'll rebound this year but i think by next season we will be getting the Campbell we expected.

 

[K1984]

Our sub .900 status isn't only on our goaltending, it's more on our defensive structure and systems play. I don't care who is in net, if we constantly leave the opposition open in prime scoring position or give up odd man rushes, our goalies numbers will take a massive hit.

I don't know if the numbers back it up or not, but the Oilers appear at least to my eye to play a much more sound game in front of Campbell than they do Skinner and Campbell still lets them down. Looking back I think almost all of the downright disgraceful team efforts have been with Skinner in net. Sometimes he stands on his head and wins us the game, but obviously that isn't a sustainable formula for even the best goalies.

Actually maybe I do have a quick stat to back it up - Campbell has a 9-7 record despite having basically the worst goaltending statistics in the NHL both conventionally and analytically while Skinner is also only two games above .500 despite having some of the best numbers in the NHL. Its actually a borderline miracle we have a winning record with Campbell considering the way he's been playing.

It's probably just yet another case of the team taking a shortcut (not sure if conscious or sub-conscious) when they feel they have the support in net to take more risks. Instead they just hang their starter out to dry and piss standings points into the wind off good goaltending efforts.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Devin Shore makes Patrick Russell look like Marian Hossa.

Sincerely

 

[bucks_oil]

Conceptually I disagree with this because we're not on ice facing the best shooters and most talented players on the ice. I think it can even be a very common human trait to self determine that we can do something as well or better than elites. Mostly what we may not pick up on is other player variables. NHL players are much better at faking shooting, passing off, or doing the unexpected so that the rock paper scissors is on a whole other level and not even anticipated necessarily. I mean we're talking about a level of player where a player like gretz was seeing where every other player on the ice was by using reflections on glass or hearing skating... Its 4d shit mortals don't pick up on.

For instance, just example, poor one, I study Chess tournament moves. I've done this for 50yrs because I love Chess. So that you go through game, tournament moves players make occasionally thinking you know better moves, and sometimes, rarely, you do, and indeed commentators will comment on moves and go over minutiae about all possibilities, tangents and only in consensus do people start to think, really, that they found an error, or a path not taken. Then the player himself or some other grandmaster, sometimes interjects and comments that if he chose the suggested moves that this occurs 5moves later, that nobody else saw...

Its totally disconnected, I realize, but it does point out that we think we can do a lot better than we probably can. Humans in general over evaluate their assessment ability. I can make that almost as a broad, general comment.

Not saying you were suggesting this, just a response.

I'm as analytical as they come, and I understand your point, but you might be overthinking this a bit.

There is no 4D chess in determining whether Campbell was out on top of his crease or not (on the first goal), sure there could be all sorts of anticipatory calculations that were going on in his head as to why he didn't come out and cut the angle down in time,... or he could have just been a bit passive and therefore late. Like I said, it isn't a major mistake that he made, and like you say "easy for me to say, not being on the ice"... but it's pretty much all that he could have done to play that shot differently (short of magically transplanting the best glove hand ever).

Similarly, on the second goal, the puck was going way to his right into the corner, it was then deflected on goal from the slot and went in the net to his right. Which is to say that he was late getting across the net, because he wasn't tracking the puck. If it was deflected back to his left, there is no criticism, since he was moving right,... but to be late when the puck was already going in the direction he should have been going... For a goalie, that's a a noticeable mistake, even to a mortal like me.

Anyway, neither of those were big mistakes, but to me it underlines a lack of confidence. I'm projecting here of course, but when I'm in a funk and playing poorly, I have to do a lot of self talk to keep me sharp and in the game, moving aggressively and following every play aggressively. A lack of confidence can have you "shrinking" into the blue paint, being less precise with your movements, allowing yourself to move shorter distances from post to post rather than from top of crease back to post, like you should be, etc.

That's what I'm seeing in his game... he's playing timid (projecting again here) because he's unsure of himself/his instincts.

 

[brentashton]

They have Niemo, pair him with Ceci and make that 2nd pair.

Im in for 7D 11F too.

If cap space is needed, trade fiest Pulju, and then Fogele if needed. For that extra D, great to have for a deep playoff. I like though having Fogele coming into playoff, I think he would be be useful, he is a bodycheck player.
If both Pulj and Fogele is traded, then there is no depth. Theb youbhave to find a 3rd liner for like 1-2 millions by trade.

I want to spread it out more
Nuge McDavid Kostin
Kane Draisaitl Hyman
Holloway McLeod Yamamoto
Järnmark Doubleshift Ryan

Niemo is progressing, I like his game and have positive hopes for him and he might be like Gudas someday but he aint there yet. If he was, this current defence would be percolating a bit differently.

 

[bucks_oil]

I remember reading an article by Jonathan Swift in The Athletic, and he said vehemently, that if he had to rely on his reflexes, he would have been out of the league a long time ago. Back in the Great Ones Days and before, due to lack of bulky pads, goalies really had to rely on agility and reflexes for the most part. Not too many positional guys with much success back in the day. Now, in addition to great reflexes and agility, the main component is positioning and technique. The big glove save when slowed down on replay, really shows the glove is pretty much already there, but the showmen like to throw it up in the air after the puck hits it. Patrick Roy was famous for that (probably to get into the heads of shooters to think he was a cat, and could never be beaten).

This is my point.

Physical errors (like having a slow glove hand, or being slow cross crease) can be easily spotted by a common hockey fan, but aren't usually worth criticizing because they aren't really correctable... people don't just magically get a faster glove hand, you have it or you don't. What you can do is work on your positioning.

But tactical errors can be spotted by any goalie I've ever chatted hockey with... these are the same tactical errors we all deal with in our own games. I might never have an NHL quality glove and I might not even be able to think the game at the NHL level, but you sure as hell can tell when a guy got caught failing to cut down an angle and probably even have a decent chance at guessing what might have caused it.

 

[Furious Nerd]

Oilers have some good young players making strides these days:

1. Holloway
2. McLeod
3. Broberg
4. Niemelainen
5. Yamamoto is starting to get his mojo back
6. Skinner has become the starter
7. Bouchard

We are actually a very young team, which explains a lot of the inconsistency we have seen this season ...

... but when they start playing their "A" game, look out. The Islanders are a good team and we destroyed them, and these young guns made big contributions.

 

[Stoneman89]

I agree

Honestly I would much rather play Vegas than Dallas first round if I had a choice

Edmontons goaltending is up in the air right now. Skinner is our guy but he didn’t look so hot last start. We really need Campbell to keep playing half decent the way he has the last three starts. He needs to take some pressure off Skinner

My worry is Skinner is going to get burnt out

Playoffs?!! Playoffs!!? Let's just win a f***ing game!

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm as analytical as they come, and I understand your point, but you might be overthinking this a bit.

There is no 4D chess in determining whether Campbell was out on top of his crease or not (on the first goal), sure there could be all sorts of anticipatory calculations that were going on in his head as to why he didn't come out and cut the angle down in time,... or he could have just been a bit passive and therefore late. Like I said, it isn't a major mistake that he made, and like you say "easy for me to say, not being on the ice"... but it's pretty much all that he could have done to play that shot differently (short of magically transplanting the best glove hand ever).

Similarly, on the second goal, the puck was going way to his right into the corner, it was then deflected on goal from the slot and went in the net to his right. Which is to say that he was late getting across the net, because he wasn't tracking the puck. If it was deflected back to his left, there is no criticism, since he was moving right,... but to be late when the puck was already going in the direction he should have been going... For a goalie, that's a a noticeable mistake, even to a mortal like me.

Anyway, neither of those were big mistakes, but to me it underlines a lack of confidence. I'm projecting here of course, but when I'm in a funk and playing poorly, I have to do a lot of self talk to keep me sharp and in the game, moving aggressively and following every play aggressively. A lack of confidence can have you "shrinking" into the blue paint, being less precise with your movements, allowing yourself to move shorter distances from post to post rather than from top of crease back to post, like you should be, etc.

That's what I'm seeing in his game... he's playing timid (projecting again here) because he's unsure of himself/his instincts.

Thanks for the exchange. Of course we see some the same, some differently.

Goaltending in hockey is such a fascinating position because it straddles lines between form and reaction and being natural and allowing in moment responses to some level of thought. I first became utterly focused on goaltending by seeing the radical changes in the position from say Gump Worsley through to Tony Esposito, Ken Dryden, Tretiak etc and each one representing a transition of styles that were more or less successful based on the strategems and in mode scoring types of plays played out in front of them. Thus I feel that by nature of the position, and the complexity of hockey is its evolving and dramatic changes take place. Watching Ken Dryden own the NHL, and seeing him anticipate NHL standard plays and being able to do that contrasted greatly with seeing him undressed in International hockey and particularly in 72 when Tony Esposito form was better than Dryden reaction. Thats just an aside but I wonder how much goalies, similar to myself overthink and get away from rote movements into overanalyzing on ice. Dryden had processed the NHL and what top scorers would do and was rabid in such study. But less tape was available on CCCP scoring and tendencies. It was more of an unknown that tripped up Dryden. Particularly early on.

Its always fascinated me that fresh to the NHL goalies always seem to put on a good show. Before they are impacted by the many things, situations, goals, plays, and self doubt that you naturally start to accrue in the position. It could be the hardest position in sports. But for the right disposition it is probably a lot easier. With Fuhr for instance he could more easily just rely on his reaction and rote movements. Although he had good anticipation, formed knowledge of shooters and plays he was probably not at great a risk for overthinking plays like a Dryden could be.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I remember reading an article by Jonathan Quick in The Athletic, and he said vehemently, that if he had to rely on his reflexes, he would have been out of the league a long time ago. Back in the Great Ones Days and before, due to lack of bulky pads, goalies really had to rely on agility and reflexes for the most part. Not too many positional guys with much success back in the day. Now, in addition to great reflexes and agility, the main component is positioning and technique. The big glove save when slowed down on replay, really shows the glove is pretty much already there, but the showmen like to throw it up in the air after the puck hits it. Patrick Roy was famous for that (probably to get into the heads of shooters to think he was a cat, and could never be beaten).

So much of face to face in sports is mental and getting in heads whether it be Football, Boxing, Hockey, Tennis etc. A comment I never forget is an analyst pointing out that Boxers often lost to Mike Tyson, in their head, in their mind, before the bell rung. The thing always was whether somebody could avoid being intimidated. But the same thing goes on in Formula 1 racing, track and field, 100yd sprint you name it the mindgames are there.

Watching the WC too its always funny to see the antics of goalie vs penalty kicker. Make the kicker wait by requiring etc instruction or getting into spot slowly etc. I mentioned in last post that tactics constantly evolve. Goalies used to move back and forth and even shuffle feet to make the kicker not know what direction goalie will go. Then they enforced that and the goalie has to be careful moving feet or coming off the line. But they still shuffle back and forth which both disguises direction they will jump and also possibly gives them an initial spring if they guess right.
For years the percentage of Penalty Kicks made was higher than now. But the goalies have really had to evolve so many strategies to deal with a problem that they should be losing the vast majority of the time.