Post-Game Talk: Oilers @ Rangers 11/9/14

[Raspewtin]

And if they want to win a Cup tjis season they can't keep Hayes in the middle. They need an NHL center, that can play in any situation and win faceoffs.

Long-term, im sure Hayes will be fine in the middle.

But this isn't the season for that experiment.

If they are not serious about winning a Cup, then send off the vets for futures.

The in the middle indecisive crap leads to nothing.

Developing a player =/= experimenting.

There's no reason to take Hayes away from center, where he has performed above expectations.

It's also not like Hayes is stagnant and not really playing well. He's visibly getting better every game. Especially when he's, gasp, played with NHL players as his linemates, and not Tanner ****ing Glass. If he wasn't getting better and still had the same problems, I'd probably understand. But he isn't, he's becoming more decisive, rushing on defenders more, going for the takeaway or stick check a lot more, engaging in more board battles, controlling the puck in tight spaces more, the improvement is clearly visible. And AV must think so too to some degree, he demoted D. Moore in favor of Hayes, and proceeded to give him 16 minutes of icetime last night.

 

[FultonReed]

this whole faceoff nonsense could have been avoided if we had just gone out and gotten back what was once ours.

 

[GraveyTrain9]

Dan Boyle needs to come back asap so Hunwick can be sent back to the AHL where he belongs... Never seen a d-man look so lost out there.

EDIT* -- excluding Del Zotto

 

[Baby Punisher]

I was at the game and as soon as the puck dropped I could tell they were in trouble. nO urgency in getting to lose pucks, no one threw a hit , everyone was fighting the puck all game, BLAH.

 

[iamitter]

Dan Boyle needs to come back asap so Hunwick can be sent back to the AHL where he belongs... Never seen a d-man look so lost out there.

EDIT* -- excluding Del Zotto

Not too long ago there was a season where Bickel played 51 games for the Rangers.

 

[rangers1314]

Dan Boyle needs to come back asap so Hunwick can be sent back to the AHL where he belongs... Never seen a d-man look so lost out there.

EDIT* -- excluding Del Zotto

Hunwick isnt coming out until McD is back, Moore and Boyle will replace Kostka and Allen...so you've got about a 2-3 weeks left of Hunwick.

And yes, hes been bad the last 2 games, but he was more than decent the past 2 weeks, hopefully he rebounds.

 

[silverfish]

this whole faceoff nonsense could have been avoided if we had just gone out and gotten back what was once ours.

[MOD] What a crime we didn't sign Malhotra. Him and AV have their ****, so what?

We saw the success of a two-center fourth line last year with Boyle and Moore. Malhotra is doing quite well in Montreal.

Still pisses me off. Dude's only winning 63.1% of his faceoffs this year. Leading the league among those who have won over 100 faceoffs. Would be kind of nice to have a guy around like that to teach Stepan and Hayes how to win in the dot...

His #fancystats are ****, but 85 defensive zone starts vs. 28 offensive zone starts sure aren't helping that. Even so, his 1.46 goals against/60 at 5v5 is 5th best on Montreal.

UGH!

Dumb. Really dumb. D. Moore and Skille should be flanking MM on our fourth line right now.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The effort on the defensive side of the puck was abysmal last night and it stunted any offense in a big way.

I've seen tighter checking in roller hockey games.

 

[Calad]

Can our playoff push avatars this year have Kreider running goalies?

I love it

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Developing a player =/= experimenting.

There's no reason to take Hayes away from center, where he has performed above expectations.

It's also not like Hayes is stagnant and not really playing well. He's visibly getting better every game. Especially when he's, gasp, played with NHL players as his linemates, and not Tanner ****ing Glass. If he wasn't getting better and still had the same problems, I'd probably understand. But he isn't, he's becoming more decisive, rushing on defenders more, going for the takeaway or stick check a lot more, engaging in more board battles, controlling the puck in tight spaces more, the improvement is clearly visible. And AV must think so too to some degree, he demoted D. Moore in favor of Hayes, and proceeded to give him 16 minutes of icetime last night.

"There's no reason" : Winning a Stanley Cup.

Reason enough.

Hayes got the ice time because by the third period it was a throw away game and the team was playing like ****.

Which is the point, in a throw away season they can allow Hayes to be taking big faceoffs and play in the middle.

Want to win a championship, then get a real center for this season.

Good luck throwing Hayes out against Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, Krejci. Because, without home ice in a seven game series, the home coach will ABSOLUTELY put his top guys out against Hayes.

This is NOT the season to be putting that reaponsibility on Hayes.

Put him on the wing, acquire a real NHL center. Vermette.

Now you have no terrible overmatch in the playoffs. Stepan, Brassard, Vermette, Moore. No weak link.

Glass is another discussion. He sucks, he shouldn't be here. And Malone isn't that solution, either. If not worse, he is damned close.

Kreider - Stepan - Zuccarello
Nash - Brassard - St. Louis
Hagelin - Vermette - Stempniak
Hayes - Moore - x

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Boyle
Sekera - Klein

Is the kind of roster they should strive for.

Duclair has fallen off. He should probably be sent back to the Remparts and allow him to play in the WJC and Memorial Cup. Dominate that level, next fall a spot will be there for him in camp.

Again, long-term Hayes looks like a real solution in the middle. Not this season he isn't. And while we have St. Louis, and the rest of the soon-to-be UFAs and RFAs, we should be going full guns blazing for a run at the Cup.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

The effort on the defensive side of the puck was abysmal last night and it stunted any offense in a big way.

I've seen tighter checking in roller hockey games.

7th division, beer league roller hockey.

 

[nyr2k2]

Can we bring Torts in to yell and scream and maybe throw a trash can at the wall or something? Light a fire under these guys' *****? They look lethargic at best, disinterested at worst. The schedule isn't getting any lighter over the next few weeks, so they better get it together soon. Don't want to dig ourselves into a hole.

 

[Kovalev27]

Staal was worst Dman on the ice last night

That's the scary part

 

[GeoNYR]

I was at this game yesterday. Haven't been to a game since before the renovation at MSG. All I can say is:

1. What a terrible performance by the defense, Hunwick looked terrible out there. Also, the offense had no sense of urgency whatsoever. The entire game it felt like we were never going to score another goal. There was never a great scoring chance, and that was due to lack of effort. Possibly from being tired from the day before?

2. Wow. I am really disappointed, somewhat disgusted, by the renovations. I was in section 227 and I couldn't see the other side of the arena, or the new scoreboard. That platform thing was a terrible idea. Who the hell approved of that? It was such an obstruction of my view of the arena as well as an eye sore. It literally made my eyes sore. All you get is a view of the ice and one large tv screen to see information and gameplay. It makes you feel so closed in. So upsetting. What a way to ruin the arena. Sorry that I'm ranting but wow that was bad.

 

[FJB]

I was expecting much more out of this team, especially playing the WORST team in the West. These are the kinds of points you cannot fail to gain because it's going to be a PITA to fight for one of the last playoff spots.

 

[Raspewtin]

"There's no reason" : Winning a Stanley Cup.

Reason enough.

Hayes got the ice time because by the third period it was a throw away game and the team was playing like ****.

Which is the point, in a throw away season they can allow Hayes to be taking big faceoffs and play in the middle.

Want to win a championship, then get a real center for this season.

Good luck throwing Hayes out against Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, Krejci. Because, without home ice in a seven game series, the home coach will ABSOLUTELY put his top guys out against Hayes.

This is NOT the season to be putting that reaponsibility on Hayes.

Put him on the wing, acquire a real NHL center. Vermette.

Now you have no terrible overmatch in the playoffs. Stepan, Brassard, Vermette, Moore. No weak link.

Glass is another discussion. He sucks, he shouldn't be here. And Malone isn't that solution, either. If not worse, he is damned close.

Kreider - Stepan - Zuccarello
Nash - Brassard - St. Louis
Hagelin - Vermette - Stempniak
Hayes - Moore - x

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Boyle
Sekera - Klein

Is the kind of roster they should strive for.

Duclair has fallen off. He should probably be sent back to the Remparts and allow him to play in the WJC and Memorial Cup. Dominate that level, next fall a spot will be there for him in camp.

Again, long-term Hayes looks like a real solution in the middle. Not this season he isn't. And while we have St. Louis, and the rest of the soon-to-be UFAs and RFAs, we should be going full guns blazing for a run at the Cup.

Why would AV put Hayes against Crosby and Malkin? That's a really stupid criticism, that a better center "might" get matched up against him. That's like not buying a car because somebody might hit it.

Are you just against a rookie being on this team? Because that's exactly what it sounds like. What has he even done wrong to draw your ire? It seems like you're holding him being a rookie against him. Which I'm not sure what he's supposed to do about that.

 

[Raspewtin]

Staal was worst Dman on the ice last night

That's the scary part

First bad game he's played in a while.

I think Staal and Girardi playing 28+ a game is starting to show. Especially considering that was a back to back.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Why would AV put Hayes against Crosby and Malkin? That's a really stupid criticism, that a better center "might" get matched up against him. That's like not buying a car because somebody might hit it.

Are you just against a rookie being on this team? Because that's exactly what it sounds like. What has he even done wrong to draw your ire? It seems like you're holding him being a rookie against him. Which I'm not sure what he's supposed to do about that.

Umm...again, read, Rangers NOT home team for 4 of 7 games...means opposing team has last change...means, they put who ever the hell they want against who ever the Rangers put on the ice...

And again, reading comprehension....i clearly repeated having Hayes on the wing. I could care less about rookie status. What i care about is he can't win a faceoff the save his life. Thats an issue.

See: getting pinned in defensive zone on road against LA and BOS because of lost faceoffs.

 

[Raspewtin]

Umm...again, read, Rangers NOT home team for 4 of 7 games...means opposing team has last change...means, they put who ever the hell they want against who ever the Rangers put on the ice...

And again, reading comprehension....i clearly repeated having Hayes on the wing. I could care less about rookie status. What i care about is he can't win a faceoff the save his life. Thats an issue.

See: getting pinned in defensive zone on road against LA and BOS because of lost faceoffs.

The point stands regardless, Hayes "might" get matched up against a better center, so he shouldn't be a center, that's exactly what you are saying.

1. I have a hard time believing that he'll be on the roster, as a center, if AV doesn't trust him there. Which he certainly seems to.

2. I have a hard time believing Hayes will be the same player he is right now by the end of the season.

3. What is there to "not trust" about Hayes at center? Is it because he is a rookie? Is it because he can't win faceoffs? Since that seems to be your criticism, does it not concern you that Stepan sucks at them too? Or the fact that faceoffs are a lot less important than they are painted to be? OR the fact that why is Hayes taking big defensive zone draws in the first place? I can't imagine he'd be doing it often.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Its not a question of might or if. Its when.

Only by some miracle unforseen would Hayes outplay the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, Krejci.

It's 90% about faceoffs.

Boston made a living pinning the opposition in their end off of faceoffs.

Weather or not you want to admit it, it is a HUGE part of the game.

And for those fancy stats guys, I'm sure they'll tell you the same. Starting shifts with the puck increases your odda of scoring by x % and starting without it increases chances of getting scored against. Now take that and repeat it over and over and thats how you lose games.

When you are a road team, you don't get to matchup how you want on faceoffs. EVERY time Hayes would be on the ice, out would come the top opposing lines. GUARANTEED. Which would mean, either Hayes gets taken out of the middle by AV...and WHO replaces him there? OR AV simply doesn't put Hayes on the ice, ever, to start a play...not good either, that means only 3 centers taking draws...

Put him on the wing...get a real center as a rental, and try to win a Cup. Plain and simple.

 

[Loff]

What can you say? Pathetic. Disgusting. Embarrassing. What a bunch of ****ing slugs. Back to back losses against the two crappiest teams is not what this team needed right now.

Pittsburgh, Colorado, Philly and Tampa is up next. Good luck boys!

 

[Gardner McKay]

The point stands regardless, Hayes "might" get matched up against a better center, so he shouldn't be a center, that's exactly what you are saying.

1. I have a hard time believing that he'll be on the roster, as a center, if AV doesn't trust him there. Which he certainly seems to.

2. I have a hard time believing Hayes will be the same player he is right now by the end of the season.

3. What is there to "not trust" about Hayes at center? Is it because he is a rookie? Is it because he can't win faceoffs? Since that seems to be your criticism, does it not concern you that Stepan sucks at them too? Or the fact that faceoffs are a lot less important than they are painted to be? OR the fact that why is Hayes taking big defensive zone draws in the first place? I can't imagine he'd be doing it often.

You know that I am very, very against giving rookies big minutes while we are trying to compete for a Cup. There is a large difference between a rookie like Miller and Hayes. Hayes clearly looks ready. Miller did not.

I agree with you 100% here. Hayes will be a better player by the time the season is over. If it appears that his face-off ability (or lack there of) is seriously hurting us then I do expect us to go out and acquire a center... at the trade deadline. I think they roll with Hayes until spring. I am fine with that. The kid has some serious talent.

 

[chosen]

I realize trying to have a rational conversation here tonight is going to be a futile effort, but I will try anyway.

The Ranger play was bad, no doubt.

But the fact is, Pittsburgh has scored 22 power play goals. The Rangers have had about 30 CHANCES. It's really turning in an absolute joke when the only power plays the Rangers get are on blatant penalties. Very few marginal calls go the Rangers way. That also goes for offsides and icings too.

I have no idea if the Rangers got a few deserved chances tonight, the outcome would have been any different, but something is wrong when they get exactly one power play chance, when Edmonton is interfering all over the ice, AND, Kreider tries to make a play, and gets called.

Seems more paranoid than rational.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Most boring game since the lockout of '05... I was seriously having trouble keeping my eyes open after 2 (it was 7:45 pm and I'm 28). Not ONCE did we get in the slot (not even Nash, who has gotten so good at it again), defense looked dead, Glass was as noticeable as St. Louis, Duclair was thrown about like a rag doll (again), we couldn't do SLIME (yes, slime) in the corners. If that's the kind of effort these guys put forth against such a bad team (don't care if it was back-to-back games, no finals, if even playoffs... REALLY awful game...

Long season, I'm confident it'll change.

 

[RGF]

Duclair needs to go back to juniors. He has faded since preseason. Against Toronto Saturday, the SHG - was the fault of zucc and hunwick before it was duclair but he was the back checker and made 0 effort to harass the shooter in front of the net (outside of a half assed reach with his stick). That's the type of play that got Miller sent to minors (particularly a bad change at the end of a PP that led to a goal against earlier in the season against Toronto).

I think Duclair should dominate jrs 1 more season. Let miller come up and play wing. he is more physical than duclair and realistically duclair isn't contributing anything offensively that miller would not replace.