Oilers Lose 3-2 Still can't beat the West...

[TheNumber4]

He did the job he was supposed to do but to you he should sit because he wasnt challenged to the degree you thought he should have been challenged?

How exactly is it Fasth's fault that he wasnt 'challenged'?


Thats like saying a players goals dont matter as much because it wasnt against the other teams best dmen so he wasnt 'challenged'.

I'm not saying it was Fasth's fault. What I'm saying is that if you look at Fasth's time in Edmonton and not just the last 2 games. You'd see that he's NOT a number 1 goalie. He shat the bed tonight, and he's shat the bed on many other nights. He's never shown an ability to make game saving saves like Scrivens has. My point is that if management was smarter they would have made the decision that Fasth is the number 2 goalie EARLIER. And if you are the number 2 goalie, 1 solid game + another solid game you STILL sit for the Number 1 goalie regardless.

This WHOLE question of "Who's earned a stay at number 1?" shouldn't even exist! It only exists because management is forcing this 1A/1B illusion on themselves and the fans.

MAYBE it's too early for everyone to see that. But not to my eyes. And I think time will show that this is the case.

 

[guymez]

I'm not saying it was Fasth's fault. What I'm saying is that if you look at Fasth's time in Edmonton and not just the last 2 games. You'd see that he's NOT a number 1 goalie. He shat the bed tonight, and he's shat the bed on many other nights. He's never shown an ability to make game saving saves like Scrivens has. My point is that if management was smarter they would have made the decision that Fasth is the number 2 goalie EARLIER. And if you are the number 2 goalie, 1 solid game + another solid game you STILL sit for the Number 1 goalie regardless.

This WHOLE question of "Who's earned a stay at number 1?" shouldn't even exist! It only exists because management is forcing this 1A/1B illusion on themselves and the fans.

MAYBE it's too early for everyone to see that. But not to my eyes. And I think time will show that this is the case.

Scrivens has shat the bed too. Every goalie does...its consistency thats the issue.

IMO the whole question of who should be #1 cant be based on some illusive metric like being 'challenged'. That doesnt make any sense.

It has to be based on simply stopping the pucks you are supposed to stop and giving your team a chance to win night in and night out. Consistency...which both Scrivens and Fasth have failed at equally this season.


Fasth has played 43 NHL games.

Scrivens has played 84 NHL games.

Neither goalie has played enough yet in terms of being considered a legit #1. Both sample sizes are too small.


So with that in mind you keep trying to see who is going to take the ball and run with it. Give each player a chance to establish himself as the better goalie.

It may turn out that neither does...its up to them.

If Scrivens is truly a #1 then he will show as much when he gets the opportunity. If not then Fasth will get an opportunity.

 

[TheNumber4]

Scrivens has shat the bed too. Every goalie does...its consistency thats the issue.

IMO the whole question of who should be #1 cant be based on some illusive metric like being 'challenged'. That doesnt make any sense.

It has to be based on simply stopping the pucks you are supposed to stop and give your team a chance to win. Both Scrivens and Fasth have failed at that equally this season.


Fasth has played 43 NHL games.

Scrivens has played 84 NHL games.

Neither goalie has played enough yet in terms of being considered a legit #1. Both sample sizes are too small.


So with that in mind you keep trying to see who is going to take the ball and run with it. Give each player a chance to establish himself as the better goalie.

It may turn out that neither does...its up to them.

If Scrivens is truly a #1 then he will show as much when he gets the opportunity. If not then Fasth will get an opportunity.

Firstly, I'm not using "challenged" as my metric to form my opinion. LIKE I SAID AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, I am not basing my opinion on the last 2 games.

YOUR opinion is that Scrivens and Fasth have shat the bed equally as bad. Take away Scrivens' HORRIBLE plays behind the net this year and the picture becomes clearer. If he doesn't touch the puck you can pretty much take away 5 or 6 bad goals this year. Add in performances like the one against the Sharks and 3rd Period stands against Washington and Tampa Bay and the picture becomes EVEN clearer. Look at Scrivens save percentages last year and so far this year and it becomes EVEN clearer.

Just because YOU might think the jury is still out does not make it true. On the flip side, just because I think it's not out and Scrivens on this team is the starter of the two. Does not make mine true either. I simply think my argument is STRONGER than yours. Disagree if you must. But I'm certain that time will show what I already know, in that Scrivens is our number 1.

 

[Up the Irons]

Last season... BOLD

Bring On Leon Draisaitl

This season... PROCESS

Poor Results? OK... Connor Eichel Strome... Success


Enigma code broken... if I'm never heard from again... you'll know why.

Lol. No doubt. Process is code for patience. Don't expect success yet, it's coming in some obscure future alternate universe.

Eakins should be a politician. He's brilliant at giving answers that satisfy. Another loss? Process.

 

[nabob]

Unfortunately neither does MacTavish. You don't trade a center away and then expect a rookie to take his place. That's just stupid.

I don't know who's available. I just know that our center depth still sucks. How is every other NHL team able to shore up their problems and meanwhile we're still staring right at them? Calgary and Vancouver shore up their goaltending in the off-season. The Islanders shore up their goaltending and defense. The Stars get 2 really good centers in back to back years.

I completely understand that the job a GM has isn't an easy one, but why isn't MacTavish able to adequately improve this team? 15 wins against the West in the past season and a bit. FIFTEEN. The West is a difficult conference but how are other teams able to make headway while we still paddle on the shore?

How is every single NHL team able to improve but ours? That's the question I'm asking.

What's stupid is continually insisting that the hole at center was created when Gagner was traded. The hole at center had been there for 7 seasons. 7 seasons where Gagner proved that he could not play the position at a NHL level.

It became obvious that when Drai was drafter that MacT didn't plan on signing a #2C. Which also signaled that there was no expectation to win this year yet again. Sellouts at Rexall were guaranteed, merchandise will still sell. Winning isn't a priority for Katz and his buddies.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

What's stupid is continually insisting that the hole at center was created when Gagner was traded. The hole at center had been there for 7 seasons. 7 seasons where Gagner proved that he could not play the position at a NHL level.

It became obvious that when Drai was drafter that MacT didn't plan on signing a #2C. Which also signaled that there was no expectation to win this year yet again. Sellouts at Rexall were guaranteed, merchandise will still sell. Winning isn't a priority for Katz and his buddies.

Ah yes the old "Gagner sucks so he isn't a center" quote. But hey, what's a few less NHLers in the lineup, huh?


And if the plan really was to slot Draisatl in from the get-go then MacT and co should be looking for another job. What a poorly run organization.

 

[TheGuyInTheChair]

And if the plan really was to slot Draisatl in from the get-go then MacT and co should be looking for another job. What a poorly run organization.

We all know this was the plan.

 

[Pred303]

from a pred fan who likes the oil and was there last night, congrats on a hard fought comeback. i know people here had to be disgusted after the first, but the oil showed plenty of heart fighting back last night from that deep of a whole. demonstrated plenty of guts, when many young teams would have folded after the first and just played out the string.

best of luck in the future, we need you guys to start beating some of these west teams and helping us, lol.

 

[ManofSteel55]

My bad. You are correct. So this is definately the stop gap band-aid MacT did not want. Which IMO is a bad move. You take a gamble on Ribeiro even at 2M for 2 Years.

There were rumors that we did in fact inquire about Ribeiro. I'm not sure if he was asking too much to play here, if we decided to not pursue him, if he flat out said "Edmonton? Lolz, no", or if the rumors were false, but I had read and heard on 1260 that we looked into it.

 

[ManofSteel55]

You really aren't listening to what I'm saying. I don't care if Gagner gets dealt as long as he is replaced with an NHL center. Arco is not an NHL center even if he looks like it on this team (which isn't hard to do. Remember when Potulny had 17 goals?) If MacT dealt Gagner and replaced him with Legwand or Jokinen or Ribiero or Roy or... well, you get the idea. Then it's fine. No issue whatsoever.

Was it not already known that Gagner was not going to be played at center this season if we kept him because, well, faceoffs and blown coverage? I seem to remember hearing somewhere that MacT had confirmed that Gagner would be a winger here this season, prior to us trading him. If that's the case, it wasn't MacT trading a center for a winger, it was trading a failed center who was going to be a winger (and is in Arizona I believe) for another winger.

Did MacT leave holes? Yep, he did. Is that acceptable? No, not really. But you seem to be grasping at a lot of straws here.

I feel dirty defending management, they don't deserve it, but nobody deserves criticism that can't be backed up either. I agree that not getting a 2/3 center (or two) is a failure. I agree that not getting a 1/2 defenseman or a legitimate #1 goalie is a failure. But let's be honest here when looking at it. No #1/#2 defensemen have moved this year, aside from Boychuk, and yes, MacT dropped the ball there. No 2/3 centers were available aside from the ones who MacT tried to sign. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. The only places that MacT really dropped the ball this summer are 1) trading for and signing Nikitin, 2) not making an offer to Hiller because our goalie problem was "fixed", and 3) signing Pouliot for too long. Not too much, too long.

I am not impressed with our record of player managment recently, but using unfounded criticisms (#2 center, trading Gagner without a replacement, etc) is not going to strengthen any argument.

 

[Soundwave]

Was it not already known that Gagner was not going to be played at center this season if we kept him because, well, faceoffs and blown coverage? I seem to remember hearing somewhere that MacT had confirmed that Gagner would be a winger here this season, prior to us trading him. If that's the case, it wasn't MacT trading a center for a winger, it was trading a failed center who was going to be a winger (and is in Arizona I believe) for another winger.

Did MacT leave holes? Yep, he did. Is that acceptable? No, not really. But you seem to be grasping at a lot of straws here.

I feel dirty defending management, they don't deserve it, but nobody deserves criticism that can't be backed up either. I agree that not getting a 2/3 center (or two) is a failure. I agree that not getting a 1/2 defenseman or a legitimate #1 goalie is a failure. But let's be honest here when looking at it. No #1/#2 defensemen have moved this year, aside from Boychuk, and yes, MacT dropped the ball there. No 2/3 centers were available aside from the ones who MacT tried to sign. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. The only places that MacT really dropped the ball this summer are 1) trading for and signing Nikitin, 2) not making an offer to Hiller because our goalie problem was "fixed", and 3) signing Pouliot for too long. Not too much, too long.

I am not impressed with our record of player managment recently, but using unfounded criticisms (#2 center, trading Gagner without a replacement, etc) is not going to strengthen any argument.

Some of that is reasonable, but I don't buy that Mac T couldn't have gotten a center if he really made it a high priority. They made it a giant priority to chase after Pouliot and Nikitin, they could have grabbed a Jokinen or someone else if they were willing to pay an extra $500k for the year IMO.

I think Mac T saw Leon at the Worlds and saw that he did OK in that tourney and figured "well we let the other three 18 year olds play right away, why not this one?".

 

[McDrai]

Who would have thought that having a solid defense and goaltending would be a winning formula? We should be trading any of our forwards not named Hall and RNH in the offseason for upgrades on defense because we aren't going to compete in the western conference any time soon with this current group of dmen. The only dmen who I want on the team next year are Fayne, Schultz, and one of Marincin/Klefbom/Nurse and those guys are currently only good enough to be in our bottom 3. Pieces that I would consider trading for upgrades on defense: Eberle, Yakupov, 1st round pick this year (most likely top 5; should get a boatload for it), Petry, etc. And please for the love of god pick up a ****ing center MacT. Just sign a stop gap, anything really

 

[Soundwave]

Who would have thought that having a solid defense and goaltending would be a winning formula? We should be trading any of our forwards not named Hall and RNH in the offseason for upgrades on defense because we aren't going to compete in the western conference any time soon with this current group of dmen. The only dmen who I want on the team next year are Fayne, Schultz, and one of Marincin/Klefbom/Nurse and those guys are currently only good enough to be in our bottom 3. Pieces that I would consider trading for upgrades on defense: Eberle, Yakupov, 1st round pick this year (most likely top 5; should get a boatload for it), Petry, etc.

The thing is there's oppurtunities to upgrade in these positions but this franchise just has blinders on.

The Scrivens move, ok, that was fine, but I don't think getting Fasth was a great move. We could've gone after Jonas Hiller instead.

We could've had Johnny Boychuk instead of Nikita Nikitin.

Adam Larsson is probably available right now for a reasonable price.

This org just doesn't move on deals when they're available or blows their wad too early.

 

[McDrai]

The thing is there's oppurtunities to upgrade in these positions but this franchise just has blinders on.

The Scrivens move, ok, that was fine, but I don't think getting Fasth was a great move. We could've gone after Jonas Hiller instead.

We could've had Johnny Boychuk instead of Nikita Nikitin.

Adam Larsson is probably available right now for a reasonable price.

This org just doesn't move on deals when they're available or blows their wad too early.

All of those moves would have done wonders for this team but I don't think our management has the ability to pull off any moves like those in the future.
I'm starting to believe that Ray Charles could run this organization better than this current regime.

 

[slaman]

The only reason we have any W's this year is goaltending. Its the only thing on the club that has improved. I know the boxcars won't reveal that but this team is horrible at giving up great scoring chances and has been all year.

Disagree completely.

To really understand our improvement, look at the stats in specific areas, rather than the overall ones.

For example, let's assume Corsi is the magic standard, and then tell me the 4th line's numbers aren't miles better than last year. Likewise, look at overall shots against compared to last year, and relative to the league. It is easy to find pockets of improvement if you are actually willing to look.

Having said that, we're not winning the Stanley Cup anytime soon, but this is a noticeably a different team than last year - regardless of what the overall numbers say.

 

[slaman]

You are still not explaining how having Gagner here and not Arco would have been a good idea.

As for the holes.. I have been saying as much since the season started.

I dont care what Calgary and Vancouver are doing....the difference between your position and mine is that I dont have a problem with waiting for the right deal.

Scrivens and Fasth may work out they may not...too soon to tell.

There is no rush at this point to make a deal. Better to be smart as opposed to allowing frustration to make the decisions for you.

It's nice to see you defending the team this year

 

[slaman]

Can we please do something about Nikitin? The guy is terrible. At this point the only possible reason we could have to want to keep him is for his shot, but when he's bleeding chances against like this there is NO benefit.

I supported the signing to some degree at the time because we do need a shot back there. Right now it's looking like a 4.5 million dollar crater for this season and next. I wish we signed him 6 million for only 1 year now. I could see Eakins and MacT wanting this guy to stay to work out his issues and salvage the signing, but good leadership knows when to pull the plug and admit they were wrong.

Can we address his footspeed, or is that just a lost cause? It would be great to pull him out of the lineup and get him training on nothing but skating for a month or so. The added benefit is that he wouldn't be playing.

He has been brutal. If he's injured, sit him. If he's not, then he is an awful skater that can't seem to stay standing, or make a basic breakout - get rid of him.

Someone else said it - he makes Belov looks like an all-star.

But I don't get the hate for Petry - he is our most stabilizing d-man out there that can play big minutes. After Nikitin, Schultz is our big liability. I actually wouldn't mind seeing him traded for a proven D-man...

 

[ManofSteel55]

Some of that is reasonable, but I don't buy that Mac T couldn't have gotten a center if he really made it a high priority. They made it a giant priority to chase after Pouliot and Nikitin, they could have grabbed a Jokinen or someone else if they were willing to pay an extra $500k for the year IMO.

I think Mac T saw Leon at the Worlds and saw that he did OK in that tourney and figured "well we let the other three 18 year olds play right away, why not this one?".

You might be right, but I heard reports that Jokinen had absolutely no interest in playing here. Same with Legwand. If that's the case, another 500K wouldn't have mattered.

 

[McPuritania]

It's crazy how low some people's standards are. A little effort, a bit of a pushback, these are not good enough. The state of Oilers hockey is unacceptable. You shouldn't be satisfied with the breadcrumbs this team drops on the ground.

Edit: So let me get this straight. Me using the words apologists and kool-aid drinkers is over the line, but calling GreatKeith a negative nancy and saying he is whining isn't? What's the damn difference? At least I didn't call anyone out by name.

 

[Musashi]

Ah yes the old "Gagner sucks so he isn't a center" quote. But hey, what's a few less NHLers in the lineup, huh?


And if the plan really was to slot Draisatl in from the get-go then MacT and co should be looking for another job. What a poorly run organization.

We replaced a guy who failed at center and is more suited for the wing with another winger. Not sure how we failed to replace him.

If you want players who are suited for the wing to fill in at center, how about you open discussions about Eberle/Pouliot/Hall/Perron/Purcell instead of bringing up a guy who failed at the job and needed a fresh start?

 

[Aerchon]

I am very surprised Gagner is still player center on Ari.

7 years being one of the worst in the league at that position I would have imagined that would be a big enough sample size to permanently move him to the wing.

 

[nabob]

Ah yes the old "Gagner sucks so he isn't a center" quote. But hey, what's a few less NHLers in the lineup, huh?

Both Arco and Drai have been better NHLers than SS this year. You seem to keep on thinking Gagner wasn't part of the problem here. He was the definition of the problem. He was more of a problem last season than Horcoff ever was. In fact MacT got more for Horcoff than Yzerman did for Gagner.

But it sure did look bad last night when Nashvilles plethora of #2 centermen ran our show in the 1st period. And that was with their best center injured. Only hope now is that Drai learning curve starts to ramp up, because you know MacT won't be getting a #2C next season unless his name is McDavid

 

[Replacement*]

Disagree completely.

To really understand our improvement, look at the stats in specific areas, rather than the overall ones.

For example, let's assume Corsi is the magic standard, and then tell me the 4th line's numbers aren't miles better than last year. Likewise, look at overall shots against compared to last year, and relative to the league. It is easy to find pockets of improvement if you are actually willing to look.

Having said that, we're not winning the Stanley Cup anytime soon, but this is a noticeably a different team than last year - regardless of what the overall numbers say.

So let me get this straight. The team bought in lock stock and barrel to advanced stats and corsi, they go out and hire a devout corsicologist, They analyze reams of data on which players have good corsi. They then overpay several of those good corsi players resulting in a team with somewhat improved corsi (what else would one expect when that is what they specifically targeted?)

Team with improved corsi is again in last place.

Back to the drawing board.

Am I missing something here?

 

[McDNicks17]

So let me get this straight. The team bought in lock stock and barrel to advanced stats and corsi, they go out and hire a devout corsicologist, They analyze reams of data on which players have good corsi. They then overpay several of those good corsi players resulting in a team with somewhat improved corsi (what else would one expect when that is what they specifically targeted?)

Team with improved corsi is again in last place.

Back to the drawing board.

Am I missing something here?

I don't think there's any doubt that the Oilers have had the puck more this season.

The problem is they still suck with and without it.

 

[Replacement*]

It's crazy how low some people's standards are. A little effort, a bit of a pushback, these are not good enough. The state of Oilers hockey is unacceptable. You shouldn't be satisfied with the breadcrumbs this team drops on the ground.

Exactly.

yet theres Drew Remenda on the telecast bringing exactly what I thought he would bringing singing the praises of an Oiler team doing good getting 4pts on a 5 GAME EC roadtrip playing the likes of Buffalo and Philly. With this team happening to normally do good against EC teams. 4pts should be considered a lesser achievement on this road trip.

If this club did an AHL swing and went .500 Remenda and Quinn would be painting rainbows all over it.

Its no wonder the fanbase is like this when the shine a turd propaganda gets drilled into us every game

Does every team broadcast have sycophants like this?