Post-Game Talk: Oilers escape with a 6-3 win

[Biltmore]

What's with Dry looking like a squirt in that photo? LOL

 

[joestevens29]

Gary Roberts and Rod Brind'Amour were the pioneers of hockey player fitness as we know it today.

I was thinking Robert’s can’t believe I forgot about rod the bod

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

I think this is just plain silly. Scoring is way up this year, and scoring in several years in the 80s only had 1 or 2 50 goal scorers. There’s going to be like 10x that this year.

What are you even smoking?

I don't even have to look it up to know you're wrong. Bossy scored 50 every year & Gretzky, Kurri & Lemieux existed so that math is in my favor.

There were lots of 50 goal scorers in the NHL in the 80's. There were probably 5 or 6 almost every year.

 

[Stoneman89]

I think this is just plain silly. Scoring is way up this year, and scoring in several years in the 80s only had 1 or 2 50 goal scorers. There’s going to be like 10x that this year. You have seen lots of anomaly years over the history of the game, like 1992-93 which is an outrageous scoring outburst, likely due to a combination of skilled european imports, rules changes (TV timeouts, etc), and skill dilution (expansion teams). If you go back to the 70’s a lot of what is happening now is fairly comparable to years that Esposito/Orr dominated the scoring race. There are ebbs and flows, and players who change the game, and rules changes up and down. Reffing has a major impact on scoring year to year. 05-06 saw a HUGE uptick in power plays being called and saw players like Ovie and Crosby catapulted to some of their highest numbers ever in their rookie seasons. They got better over time but their production was no better in their prime than it was as rookies.

In like 2000 people were already calling it the dead puck era, but you were literally a couple years removed from some of the highest scoring years in history. 1995-96 saw some numbers that approached the best seasons ever. The same players were playing. Lemieux was there in the 80s 90s and 00’s and even though he was hobbled he was still scoring point per game against the new superstars who are still playing today.

If you just look at transference, even guys like Gretzky in their retirement years against players who were going through training and development regimens similar to todays athletes, they were still posting point per game as senior citizens.

The idea that players could jump back and dominate the field the way Gretzky did is asinine. People attribute Gretzky’s numbers to the era effect when he had like 100 more points than anyone else in the league Some years. Its not close.

Speaking of plain silly, the bolded is flat out incorrect. The list of 50 goal scoring every year in the 80's was the most ever seen. The average was around 8 every single year, with the most being 10 and the least 5 (a single year).

NHL 50 Goal Scorers by Year | Hockey Hermit

List of NHL 50 goal scorers year by year from Maurice Richard's 50 in 50 in 1944-45 to present day NHL.

www.hockeyhermit.com

 

[Fourier]

What are you even smoking?

I don't even have to look it up to know you're wrong. Bossy scored 50 every year & Gretzky, Kurri & Lemieux existed so that math is in my favor.

There were lots of 50 goal scorers in the NHL in the 80's. There were probably 5 or 6 almost every year.

In the years between 1980-81 and 1989-1990 there were 75 individual 50 goal season. In 86-87 there were only 5 guys who had 50+ goals. That was the fewest in any one year over that period.

 

[alanschu]

Sometimes there were as many as 8.

92-93 is still a bonkers year that had 14 lol. Joe Juneau dropping 100 point seasons

 

[alphahelix]

I was exaggerating, but for example in the mid-80’s: 86-87 had 5 50 goal scorers, last year we had 4. This year will have double that at least. 05-06 had 5. Right in the middle of the supposed out of control scoring era we were seeing seasons the same or less than we have now. That was the point I was trying to make, shouldn’t have gotten bogged down with Specifics.

 

[alanschu]

Goal scoring is definitely up the past 6 seasons (and especially this season and last) but even 86-87 had teams average 0.5 more goals per game than this season. Given plenty of seasons surrounding 86-87 where we have 8 (or more) and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if we still only top out at 4-5 this year.

 

[Harry Curry]

I was exaggerating, but for example in the mid-80’s: 86-87 had 5 50 goal scorers, last year we had 4. This year will have double that at least.

Twice as many 50 goal seasons this year compared to 86-87 with 11 more teams.

 

[Stoneman89]

I was exaggerating, but for example in the mid-80’s: 86-87 had 5 50 goal scorers, last year we had 4. This year will have double that at least. 05-06 had 5. Right in the middle of the supposed out of control scoring era we were seeing seasons the same or less than we have now. That was the point I was trying to make, shouldn’t have gotten bogged down with facts.

Corrected for you.

 

[alphahelix]

Twice as many 50 goal seasons this year compared to 86-87 with 11 more teams.

Im not sure what you mean by that? Yes its an accurate statement. Is it that the talent pool is more diluted now, so we should have more 50 goal scorers? But the talent pool is global now and training and development has lifted all boats so the basic replacement level is higher than ever. Theres like 1000 moving pieces trying to compare. Is there a Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur in todays game? Is there a Scotty Bowman? There is no conclusive argument here but I dont see why anyone would assume that if you took a player from today in a league where there will likely be 7+ 50 goal scorers and transported them to the mid 80s when there were 5 50+ goal scorers why anyone would assume they would score twice as much. Of course goaltending evolved a lot in the 90s but so did everything else.

The real question is if Gretzky was born into an elite development pipeline and trained to scientifically maximize every element of his performance and used composite sticks would he have 400 points today?

 

[alanschu]

Im not sure what you mean by that? Yes its an accurate statement. Is it that the talent pool is more diluted now, so we should have more 50 goal scorers?

I think more importantly, having more teams means more people that will get first line minutes to put up numbers.

It'd be a lot more difficult to have a ton of 50 goal scorers with less teams. (Consider for a moment if there were only 2 teams to better recognize this).

 

[29Beast97Mode]

Leon looks 5'4"

 

[Harry Curry]

I'm not sure what you mean by that?

I meant that comparing the number of 50 goal scorers in a season with 21 teams and the number of 50 goal scorers with 32 teams you would expect 50% more players to reach that level if you hold everything else equal.

 

[McShogun99]

I was looking up best individual seasons. Who the hell was Dennis Maruk. 136 points in 1981-82 and never came close again.

 

[OilynutEsquire]

The same people crying about Bouchards turnovers were crying when Holland didn't trade for Karlsson.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

The same people crying about Bouchards turnovers were crying when Holland didn't trade for Karlsson.

Fake news.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

I meant that comparing the number of 50 goal scorers in a season with 21 teams and the number of 50 goal scorers with 32 teams you would expect 50% more players to reach that level if you hold everything else equal.

Not really related, but, this year and last year have seen the highest goals per game since 1995-96 (3.17 and 3.14 respectively).

The average save percentage and goals against average in 95-96 was .898 and 3.04.

Last year it was .907 and 2.92; this year .905 and 2.96.

So it appears that although scoring is the highest its been in years the standard of goaltending is still much better.

For reference the year with the best goaltending was 2014-15 which had a league average save percentage and goals against average of .915 and 2.51. The average goals per game was 2.73. This makes some sense since this was Carey Price's Hart winning season. Also for reference, the Oilers goaltending tandem that year was Scrivens and Fasth and oh boy did they stink it up. Combined they had an .889 and a 3.29. Woof.

 

[kevy9999]

I was exaggerating, but for example in the mid-80’s: 86-87 had 5 50 goal scorers, last year we had 4. This year will have double that at least. 05-06 had 5. Right in the middle of the supposed out of control scoring era we were seeing seasons the same or less than we have now. That was the point I was trying to make, shouldn’t have gotten bogged down with Specifics.

You're way exaggerating. I we will have maybe 6 50 goal scorers at most this year. Scoring was way way more in the 80's lol

 

[kevy9999]

Im not sure what you mean by that? Yes its an accurate statement. Is it that the talent pool is more diluted now, so we should have more 50 goal scorers? But the talent pool is global now and training and development has lifted all boats so the basic replacement level is higher than ever. Theres like 1000 moving pieces trying to compare. Is there a Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur in todays game? Is there a Scotty Bowman? There is no conclusive argument here but I dont see why anyone would assume that if you took a player from today in a league where there will likely be 7+ 50 goal scorers and transported them to the mid 80s when there were 5 50+ goal scorers why anyone would assume they would score twice as much. Of course goaltending evolved a lot in the 90s but so did everything else.

The real question is if Gretzky was born into an elite development pipeline and trained to scientifically maximize every element of his performance and used composite sticks would he have 400 points today?

Gretzky was the greatest mind in hockey with the best hockey sense on the ice. So with advantages of today's training,technique, diet, equipment and rules he would in my opinion win the scoring race every year. Don't think 400 points is realistic lol

 

[WaitingForUser]

I don't even know if it was Gretz and Mario doing their thing. I honestly don't remember when and who it was, but whoever started taking training seriously probably paved the road for a guy like McDavid more so. Skating and skills coaches in the off-season never were a thing, but eventually once some guys started having success with it the evolution happened where it became the norm.

Sure we heard the stories of Gretz as a kid always wanted to be on the ice and shit, but that was more just a kid playing around then any actually guidance.

That and the day they stopped smoking and having beers during intermission probably started to change players as well.

What I meant was the league had to adapt to catch up to those guys. We owe the talent and systems play to people trying to figure out how to stop those two players.

 

[rboomercat90]

What's with Dry looking like a squirt in that photo? LOL

Somebody photo shopped Leon’s face and number on Yamamoto.

 

[snag]

They need the GOOD 50 year old women to get up to do the dances, like 54 year old Elizabeth Hurley.
View attachment 669577

I can stare at that all day....

 

[xoczar99ox]

Nope. It’s just a date picked to exclude a two game losing streak that happened right before.

Haha. You gotta love when people cherry pick stats.

 

[xoczar99ox]

I was thinking Robert’s can’t believe I forgot about rod the bod

Throw Chelios in there as well.