GDT: Oilers @ Ducks - 7 PM PT - 4 AM CET

[Sojourn]

Are you still on this?

 

[Sojourn]

sure. i'll stand by it. pull up his minuses and lets see how many were actually his fault vs a soft goal by andersen or someone else completely screwing up

I believe Flashheart did that earlier. It was pretty telling.

 

[bumperkisser]

Sharks 2-0 Loss
1st goal - could see it both ways, maybe partially his fault. Ultimately, marleau left alone in the slot cause despres is facing the goaltender and marleau is left all by himself.
2nd goal - weak goal by freddy
Van 2-1 SOL(-1)
1st goal - Weak goal by freddy
ARI 4-0 Loss
1st goal - FO Loss
COL 3-0 Loss
1st goal - Weak goal by freddy
MIN 4-1 Win
No goals against
NSH 5-1 Loss
1st goal - bad diving play, minus deserved
2nd goal - weak freddy goal
MIN 3-0 Loss
2nd goal - literally 1 or 2 seconds after PK expires.
3rd goal - 2 on 1 against fowler. Definitely could've played it better as pass got through him on the 2v1 so maybe a minus deserved.
Chi 1-0 OTL
1st goal - Getzlaf being lazy as ****. Not deserved
Dal 4-3 Loss
Not on ice
Stl 2-1 Loss
1st goal - Fowler needs to make a better play with that puck on the 4v2 rush. Minus deserved
Nsh 4-2 Win
2nd goal - Nice goal by NSH. Dances around Holzer
FLA 3-2 Win
1st goal - awful turnover by lindholm
CBJ 4-2 Win
2nd goal - either bieksa/getzlafs guy was left all alone. Dunno who
ARI 4-3 OTL
3rd goal - weak by freddy but fowler let domi have a bit of room. Semi deserved
4th goal - drop pass by Getzlaf


So after all this looks like Fowler should definitely be in the + if we're basing it off his play (imo of course. feel free to look over the goals where he was on the ice and lmk where you disagree). +/- is a stupid statistic in general.

 

[bumperkisser]

You could do his whole career, all -47 of them, would it really make you feel better? The fact that he's stacking -'s is the problem, not how they are attained.


His play is good, I haven't said otherwise.

well **** son. he can't do anything else besides play well. what do you want from the guy? tell freddy to make better saves?

Man i just wasted so much time reviewing all the goals too ahahahahaha. So many softies and bieksa boneheaded plays

 

[Sojourn]

Bringing up previous seasons, when we're discussing the current one, is about as big a reach as it gets. No one is arguing that Fowler hasn't had growing pains. Or that he hasn't been underwhelming at times. No one is saying he came into the league not needing to improve his defensive game. Or even that he probably wouldn't have been better off spending another year developing before he was called up. Those are all arguments no one is making.

What people are saying is that Fowler has been our best defenseman this season, and the +/- statistic is not at all telling of his play this season. Are you so determined to marginalize him as a player that you have to resort to these tactics?

 

[DaDucks*]

well **** son. he can't do anything else besides play well. what do you want from the guy? tell freddy to make better saves?

Man i just wasted so much time reviewing all the goals too ahahahahaha. So many softies and bieksa boneheaded plays

Ok, then this is an accurate summary then?


So, despite his play, bad/unlucky things consistently tend to happen when he's on the ice and it's been that way the majority of his career.

 

[Sojourn]

I guess so.

Fowler is the anti-intangible.

 

[bumperkisser]

Ok, then this is an accurate summary then?


So, despite his play, bad/unlucky things consistently tend to happen when he's on the ice and it's been that way the majority of his career.

i said this is IMO. i also said feel free to look it over and tell me where you disagree.

i also said countless countless times that fowler has been great through the POs last season as well as this season. I never defended him as a #1 prior to that.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

I believe Flashheart did that earlier. It was pretty telling.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=108580827&postcount=67

Apologies in advance for reposting what I already posted. That's pathetic behaviour.

You could do his whole career, all -47 of them, would it really make you feel better? The fact that he's stacking -'s is the problem, not how they are attained.


His play is good, I haven't said otherwise.

Ok, then this is an accurate summary then?


So, despite his play, bad/unlucky things consistently tend to happen when he's on the ice and it's been that way the majority of his career.

Agenda driven nonsense.

 

[terranraida]

I'm mad that Perry didn't get the hat trick, I am mad that we blew the leads, but I am not mad that we lost in OT. That was a hell of a play by Edmonton.

 

[DaDucks*]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=108580827&postcount=67

Apologies in advance for reposting what I already posted. That's pathetic behaviour.



Agenda driven nonsense.

Yes, probably seen more ducks hockey than anyone here, but ever since Cam came along, its been my mission to destroy him. You got me, good call.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Ok, then this is an accurate summary then?


So, despite his play, bad/unlucky things consistently tend to happen when he's on the ice and it's been that way the majority of his career.

No, it isn't.

He's continually put out with careless, bad, or error prone teammates against competition capable of taking advantage of said individuals and errors.

Correlation =/= causation. Put your agenda away, +/- is a poor statistic to try to draw any sort of conclusions from and you're more than well educated enough to know that.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Yes, probably seen more ducks hockey than anyone here, but ever since Cam came along, its been my mission to destroy him. You got me, good call.

Agenda driven in discussions about Fowler, it's transparent. How else does one explain stuff like "The fact that he's stacking -'s is the problem, not how they are attained"? How do you even think that makes for a well reasoned argument?

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I'm mad that Perry didn't get the hat trick, I am mad that we blew the leads, but I am not mad that we lost in OT. That was a hell of a play by Edmonton.

Son, your priorities are askew.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I consider OT to be a complete gimmick of a crap shoot - even more so than the shootout IMO. I'm not angry when we lose or impressed when we win.

 

[DaDucks*]

No, it isn't.

He's continually put out with careless, bad, or error prone teammates against competition capable of taking advantage of said individuals and errors.

Correlation =/= causation. Put your agenda away, +/- is a poor statistic to try to draw any sort of conclusions from and you're more than well educated enough to know that.

He's finished seasons as +'s before , are you to tell me his same partners were more problematic in his down years? That's a very large lean on their shoulders. The +4 last year, primarily played with capable partners with one of the franchise's best years, is the biggest concern for me personally. Maybe it's overblown, maybe it isn't, hopefully he can turn it around and get the numbers he deserves, but I ask this board, to what end do we take this? Are we going to continue ignore and excuse -47 to maybe -100? While up until this year, his teammate is leading the nhl over the last 2 years in +\- with similar (arguably inferior) play?

I think the video replays above illuminate that there is a collaboration of breakdowns of everyone around him and that it's consistent throughout is career.

 

[Carelton CA]

I can't get over how bad some of these contract deals look down the road. Kesler's deal may the worst of them all.

I have to believe there are very few players on this team that BM wouldn't trade if he had the chance.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I consider OT to be a complete gimmick of a crap shoot - even more so than the shootout IMO. I'm not angry when we lose or impressed when we win.

I agree wholeheartedly And so is the loser point. Oh how I wish hockey would just do what soccer does. bring back ties (1 pt each) and make a win worth 3 pts.

I have less than 0 clue as to why this league treats ties like anathema. If it's good enough for the NFL and soccer, why not here?

Also getting points for losing is stupid. The Kings first Cup, they shouldn't even have made the Playoffs. They benefited by losing 15 games in OT. Dallas missed entirely, but actually had two more wins. That is dumb #dumb

 

[Theridion]

Yes, probably seen more ducks hockey than anyone here, but ever since Cam came along, its been my mission to destroy him. You got me, good call.

I didnt think Cam was doing anything special in years past.

But this year I have become a Cam fan.

 

[Ducks DVM]

He's finished seasons as +'s before , are you to tell me his same partners were more problematic in his down years? That's a very large lean on their shoulders. The +4 last year, primarily played with capable partners with one of the franchise's best years, is the biggest concern for me personally. Maybe it's overblown, maybe it isn't, hopefully he can turn it around and get the numbers he deserves, but I ask this board, to what end do we take this? Are we going to continue ignore and excuse -47 to maybe -100? While up until this year, his teammate is leading the nhl over the last 2 years in +\- with similar (arguably inferior) play?

I think the video replays above illuminate that there is a collaboration of breakdowns of everyone around him and that it's consistent throughout is career.

I'm telling you that +/- is a garbage statistic period. You're looking for stats to fit your agenda, and it's pretty transparent. He played most of the year last year with Lovejoy and a cast of rookies. The fact that you refer to that as "capable partners" pretty much confirms that.

You aren't fooling anyone. Please stop trying.

 

[Sojourn]

Despres played 16 games with Anaheim during the regular season.

Even with the loosest use of the word "primarily" it's just inaccurate to say he was playing with capable partners. Rookies, and Lovejoy. But you've watched more games than any of us, so I would expect you to know that.

 

[Frosted Tips]

I agree wholeheartedly And so is the loser point. Oh how I wish hockey would just do what soccer does. bring back ties (1 pt each) and make a win worth 3 pts.

I have less than 0 clue as to why this league treats ties like anathema. If it's good enough for the NFL and soccer, why not here?

Also getting points for losing is stupid. The Kings first Cup, they shouldn't even have made the Playoffs. They benefited by losing 15 games in OT. Dallas missed entirely, but actually had two more wins. That is dumb #dumb

Agreed 100%. It's not even because the Ducks suck at 3v3 OT. This new OT is a gimmick. If a game ends in tie, it's just a tie game. Give 1 pt for each team. It's not like we'd be dividing by 0 if we allowed tie games, but sometimes I feel like that's how people react.

 

[DaDucks*]

No, it isn't.

He's continually put out with careless, bad, or error prone teammates against competition capable of taking advantage of said individuals and errors.

Correlation =/= causation. Put your agenda away, +/- is a poor statistic to try to draw any sort of conclusions from and you're more than well educated enough to know that.

He's finished seasons as +'s before , are you to tell me his same partners were more problematic in his down years? That's a very large lean on their shoulders. The +4 last year, primarily played with capable partners with one of the franchise's best years, is the biggest concern for me personally. Maybe it's overblown, maybe it isn't, hopefully he can turn it around and get the numbers he deserves, but I ask this board, to what end do we take this? Are we going to continue ignore and excuse -47 to maybe -100? While up until this year, his teammate is leading the nhl over the last 2 years in +\- with similar (arguably inferior) play?

I think the video replays above illuminate that there is a collaboration of breakdowns of everyone around him and that it's consistent throughout is career.

 

[DaDucks*]

I'm telling you that +/- is a garbage statistic period. You're looking for stats to fit your agenda, and it's pretty transparent. He played most of the year last year with Lovejoy and a cast of rookies. The fact that you refer to that as "capable partners" pretty much confirms that.

You aren't fooling anyone. Please stop trying.

You're telling me that plus minus is garbage? Thanks, but I think that's subjective... I'm not trying to convince anyone how to think or view anything. I've actually come looking for answers. I presented a straight forward question and Soj answered yes, and some answers no, and some tried to discredit my posting here today from having an agenda.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Agreed 100%. It's not even because the Ducks suck at 3v3 OT. This new OT is a gimmick. If a game ends in tie, it's just a tie game. Give 1 pt for each team. It's not like we'd be dividing by 0 if we allowed tie games, but sometimes I feel like that's how people react.

**** like this is also a large reason why I can not stand the CFL. Awarding points on missed FG's and touch backs? gimme a break.

I seriously wanna see a Grey Cup that is tied in OT and have the coach go over to the kicker and literally say: "Ya know what son? [they all sound like that because they are all American anyway] don't even aim. Just kick that son ***** as hard as you ****ing can."

No, seriously, I will die a happy man if a Grey Cup is won on a missed FG