Post-Game Talk: Oilers 3, Avalanche 2 (OT)

[oXo Cube]

Ok great, but if the players we gave up aren't pushing the needle on their respective teams, why would you assume they would on ours?

They are pushing the needle.

Just because those teams aren't the best teams in the NHL doesn't mean their best players aren't helping. Or does McDavid not move the needle?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Ok great, but if the players we gave up aren't pushing the needle on their respective teams, why would you assume they would on ours?

They don't need to "push the needle", they just need to be better than the crap we're playing right now.

Safe to say either Hall or Eberle would easily be our best winger right now.

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

They are pushing the needle.

Just because those teams aren't the best teams in the NHL doesn't mean their best players aren't helping. Or does McDavid not move the needle?

How are they pushing the needle? NYI is worse this year than last. The two years that Hall has been in NJ, they have averaged about the same amount of points as before he arrived (way better one year, way worse another). Likewise the Oiler's had 70 points with Hall and no Larson, 103 points with Larson and no Hall, and now are on pace for 74 with Larson and no Hall. You need a complete team in the NHL, and guys like McDavid and Hall aren't going to have team success if their defense and goalies can't do their jobs. That doesn't change just because the impact of the forwards are easier to measure.

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

They don't need to "push the needle", they just need to be better than the crap we're playing right now.

Safe to say either Hall or Eberle would easily be our best winger right now.

Then why haven't they driven their teams to bigger success?

BTW, putting Hall and Eberle together is ridiculous. Hall clearly is one of the best players in the league. Eberle is not. Last year Hall didn't do anything to help NJ, this year he is making a big difference. Last year Larson made a big difference for Edmonton, this year he isn't. The teams matter, and players/teams have ups and downs (especially when young, as the Oiler's are).

 

[oXo Cube]

How are they pushing the needle? NYI is worse this year than last. The two years that Hall has been in NJ, they have averaged about the same amount of points as before he arrived (way better one year, way worse another). Likewise the Oiler's had 70 points with Hall and no Larson, 103 points with Larson and no Hall, and now are on pace for 74 with Larson and no Hall. You need a complete team in the NHL, and guys like McDavid and Hall aren't going to have team success if their defense and goalies can't do their jobs. That doesn't change just because the impact of the forwards are easier to measure.

You're missing the point, and you're wrong about the impact these players are making but that's a different discussion that I have no interest in having.

Nobody said you can't trade these players. Nobody said it's okay to have a team that isn't built properly. What is being said is that the right trades need to be made and that it's not okay at all to trade your dollars for quarters. Good players are way too hard to get for that.

For your position to make sense you have to present an argument that the problems in team building were actually fixed. That's going to be hard with Taylor Hall and it's going to be extremely hard with Jordan Eberle and Griffin Reinhart.

It's also not really that hard to measure defensive impact just FYI. Larsson is league average. A fine player that I'm happy to have.

EDIT: I just realized that this is the PGT and not the Fire Chia thread. My bad and I'll stop derailing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Then why haven't they driven their teams to bigger success?

BTW, putting Hall and Eberle together is ridiculous. Hall clearly is one of the best players in the league. Eberle is not. Last year Hall didn't do anything to help NJ, this year he is making a big difference. Last year Larson made a big difference for Edmonton, this year he isn't. The teams matter, and players/teams have ups and downs (especially when young, as the Oiler's are).

Because relying on a single player for team success is stupid and evidentially not even Connor McDavid can do that.

Phil Kessel didn't move the needle for Toronto and yet put on a team that was better he drove the team to two Cups.

The Oilers foolishly handed the keys to young players with no good veteran support and they drowned.

 

[Soundwave]

How are they pushing the needle? NYI is worse this year than last. The two years that Hall has been in NJ, they have averaged about the same amount of points as before he arrived (way better one year, way worse another). Likewise the Oiler's had 70 points with Hall and no Larson, 103 points with Larson and no Hall, and now are on pace for 74 with Larson and no Hall. You need a complete team in the NHL, and guys like McDavid and Hall aren't going to have team success if their defense and goalies can't do their jobs. That doesn't change just because the impact of the forwards are easier to measure.

And where is having an untalented one line/one trick pony the blue print for a "complete team".

I see two players who can play and create that need to put on the same line together because otherwise you waste their talent and past that a bunch of garbage.

 

[PerformanceMcOil]

Eberle and (especially) Hall are NHL players that could help the Oiler's no doubt. If you all want to argue that Chia is pissing away franchise value in the case of Eberle and (especially) the Barzal pick I can understand the reasoning (I think Hall + random $4 million D vs. Lucic + Larson is far more debatable). But that doesn't change my opinion that the reason the Oiler's are bad this year has nothing to do with those moves, and everything to do with the severe regression of the D and G, which is what I was agreeing to.

Eberle isn't worth 20 points to this team, that is a simple fact. Hall comes closer, but losing Larson has a cost too.

 

[McBeastMode]