Post-Game Talk: Oilers 2 Rangers 1 - Victory!!!!!!!

[Spawn]

Eberle, Letestu, Desharnais, Gryba and Pouliot = gone
Rieder, Brodziak, Yamamoto, Bouchard, Puljujarvi and Rattie = in

This team isn't all that damn different minus the injured Sekera.

You left out Patrick maroon. And Ryan strome for that matter on the other side.

And yes, losing two top 6 wingers and your #3 dman with no replacements does make the team damn different.

 

[joestevens29]

Do we count this as a "win" though because the team entirely relied on McDavid and Talbot, and were basically lucky.

I mean if we're being honest, this was more of an OT loss then a win.

What did the Rangers do to win?

I don't get it. We win an afternoon game that most thought we'd lose and still zero credit given to the team.

That and Talbot had 23 saves. What did he really do to win the game?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

What did the Rangers do to win?

I don't get it. We win an afternoon game that most thought we'd lose and still zero credit given to the team.

That and Talbot had 23 saves. What did he really do to win the game?

I just kind of assume that the team still didn't win the right way. So if we stop counting them as full Wins so the team doesn't get unfair credit, right?

 

[joestevens29]

I just kind of assume that the team still didn't win the right way. So if we stop counting them as full Wins so the team doesn't get unfair credit, right?

Lol

Overall I thought it was a decent game. Nothing special, but nothing glaringly bad. I wasn't impressed with the goal Talbot did let in as he was caught cheating again, but he did adjust so I don't know that I'm that mad about it anymore.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You left out Patrick maroon. And Ryan strome for that matter on the other side.

And yes, losing two top 6 wingers and your #3 dman with no replacements does make the team damn different.

Don't worry, Strome will create something every 10 or so games.

 

[CupofOil]

Now you are trying to drag McDavid down with him. Wow.

He's not exactly wrong. McDavid has always had at least some semblance of skill on his line from Draisaitl to RNH to even Maroon who I'd say plays with skill better than Lucic does.

Ever since Drai was moved to center, he has played with a combination of Lucic, Slepyshev, Cagguila, Cammalleri, Aberg and now an in over his head Yamamoto. As I said previously, Draisaitl himself certainly needs to be better, but he's playing by himself out there.

It would be difficult for just about any center to create much with the wingers Drai has had. Obviously he would create more, but I'd be interested to see how McDavid would do with Lucic and Yamamoto on his wings. Even McDavid was slowed quite a bit the times he played with Lucic in the past.

Edit: I do see why you would get from that post that he's dragging McDavid down with the "standard" pass comment.

 

[nabob]

See? You and I both know you're playing with this stuff and your post above it.

But by this standard, if somebody took this seriously it negates that Drai has scored arguably the nicest goal of the young season. He finished a quick strike one timer that the goalie had no chance on. A goal that had basically everybody in the Swedish crowd nodding "oh yeah". In short that was a "he got all of it" howitzer. A perfectly placed screamer. To add the primary assist was Lucic. McD just made a standard pass across on the play on a rush. The Lucic feed was well placed, but the shot was something else. Drai has also hit a goal post and had a couple others so far that handcuffed the goalie.

Finally Drai was in on the winning goal making a back hand pass that was unexpected, the kind of deft play he makes in his sleep, and found McD open. In that same game and thread Drai is said to have "done nothing" But he creates the winning goal. hmmmm

What point has Drai got this season that wasn’t a product of McDavid?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

You left out Patrick maroon. And Ryan strome for that matter on the other side.

And yes, losing two top 6 wingers and your #3 dman with no replacements does make the team damn different.

Fair points, however Rattie should replace Maroon's points if he stays on the top line or be close to it.

 

[nabob]

Now you are trying to drag McDavid down with him. Wow.

He was doing the same thing last season as well when Drai was slumping. His bias knows no bounds.

 

[nabob]

Drai needs to play better, defensive zone in particular, but he has nobody to play off of. Lucic has been ok relative to his usual even strength play but he still lacks any semblance of offensive skill, still can't handle a pass, not great on the cycle etc. and Yamamoto is in over his head, he loses the puck when pressured and he can't get anything going on the cycle, he's just not ready for full time top 6 action. He might get there one day, but he just doesn't have the confidence at this level right now to display the skill he's capable of.
All things considered, Drai is playing by himself out there in O zone and I agree that he needs to be more assertive but that's not going to all of a sudden make his linemates better.

Even McDavid looked handcuffed when Lucic was on his line and McDavid has never had to play with as little skill as Drai is currently playing with at any level, can you name one top 6 center who has? Drai needs some semblance of skill on his line, he's not the type of player that can do it all on his own, most players in the league can't. He needs somebody who can play give and go, can shoot, can cycle the puck with some consistency.
If only they had a skilled young forward with some experience chomping at the bit to play with a skilled center. Hmm, I wonder if the Oilers have one of those.

I like you, we agree on a lot of stuff, but you do go out of your way to pick on Drai a lot which is the same thing you got on people for doing to Nuge.

I don’t need to go out of my way to show that Drai’s effort has been lacking. It’s pretty obvious. There are a lot of posters going out of their way to excuse his poor effort. Even willing to try and throw shade at MCDavid of all players. That’s pretty pathetic.

 

[CornKicker]

for 8.5M drai should be making those around him better, not worse

 

[RegDunlop]

I think I defend peoples right to say what they want, within reason. That is different than standing by when people say a star player is junk, garbage, and should be traded. All comments here that occur every day, astoundingly, re; Draisaitl.

Last year it was Talbot.

But heres the balance. Others here are thinking I can't, or shouldn't support players that are on a good list (based on what they do for the team) So that its a two way street and sometimes I'm just defending turf and being able to say what is my prerogative. Which I'm decent at substantiating. If I do that well at times its not limiting what others can say, its countering it, with discussion as should be the case.

Totally agree
I like to defend people's right to their opinion as well. In fact that is my only point in this whole debate / argument!

In this case, my opinion is that Leon is not playing up to his potential. I'm allowed that. You counter with the opinion that he is, but other circumstances apply. You of course are allowed that opinion as well.

The only reason I kept (keep?!) this exchange going is that I respectively feel that you don't fully allow others their opinion on Leon's play, without a caveat about his linemates or other things. For myself at least, and I think many others, I've already considered those factors in my decision to give him a below average grade.

Again, posters who totally crap in him are usually the ones that seem to crap on everyone when a subpar performance. They are allowed to as well, but I'm allowed to ignore those quick, not thought out blurbs if I choose to. And I do. I have to admit that I'm surprised you don't in this case.

 

[RegDunlop]

He's not exactly wrong. McDavid has always had at least some semblance of skill on his line from Draisaitl to RNH to even Maroon who I'd say plays with skill better than Lucic does.

Ever since Drai was moved to center, he has played with a combination of Lucic, Slepyshev, Cagguila, Cammalleri, Aberg and now an in over his head Yamamoto. As I said previously, Draisaitl himself certainly needs to be better, but he's playing by himself out there.

It would be difficult for just about any center to create much with the wingers Drai has had. Obviously he would create more, but I'd be interested to see how McDavid would do with Lucic and Yamamoto on his wings. Even McDavid was slowed quite a bit the times he played with Lucic in the past.

Edit: I do see why you would get from that post that he's dragging McDavid down with the "standard" pass comment.

Good post
For me, I still think that your (and others) side of this debate is not correct. Only part of it. We agree on most but it's interesting to me that so many people feel that it's more a product of insufficient line mates that hampers Leon.

I've never considered this before in any other player and his performance. It seems like such an excuse. But I admit that I can't back up my stance as I can't recall such a dynamic performer in this position. At least not offhand.
So I'm still holding my opinion but very open to giving credence to the theory of incompetent wingers.

 

[RegDunlop]

for 8.5M drai should be making those around him better, not worse

Money aside - yes it's a factor - but for me it's more that the player he is and the stature he has - that brings this expectation.

 

[belair]

Sorry but this is way off. Dustin Brown is not a player to be "stapled to" he's a player that can produce, that has skill, and as much as Lucic has. DB has higher career totals, higher GPG, higher ppg and was on fire last year, resurrected, after being out of Sutters dog house. This as well while playing on a team that requires D responsibilities first. Also DB had 61pts last season, as high as Lucic has ever had in his career.

Alex Iafallo? This kid is uber talented and unlike Kailer Alex Iafallo possesses the puck like crazy. its glue to his stick for extended periods of time. Alex can rag the puck while his linemates get open. The big difference between Iafallo and Yamamoto is that Alex can withstand contact and is age 24, seasoned, and at the hockey prime of his career.

Then, and I can't believe you're not thinking this through, Kopitar has the benefit of one of the best D in the game, a PMD, Drew Doughty. Plus, and this should be the most obvious, is you're comparing an in prime Kopitar to a young 22yr old Draisaitl. You're doing that apparently with a straight face or not even thinking about how fair the comparison is for a moment.

When Kopitar was Draisaitls age he was being sheltered by the likes of Carter, Brown, Justin Williams, just for sake of comparison.

Dustin Brown? He certainly was last year. The several years before that? He was right there in Milan Lucic territory--aging, declining and done. Iafallo on the other hand, I agree, is better suited for tough minutes considering his build and the type of situations he thrives in. But he was also a kid straight out of college. Him getting thrown next to Kopitar last season would've been somewhat akin to us throwing Drake Caggiula next to Leon last year and keeping him there nearly all year. When we're talking about 'top six' players, Kopitar might have had one as a linemate heading into last season--and that was very arguable prior to it.

And sure, it's an unfair comparison. I'm not the one who mentioned Kopitar, but it's a point that had to be made. It doesn't require 'elite' or even favorable linemates to own your competition. I'm not sure how often Drew Doughty and Anze Kopitar see the ice together. Connor McDavid generally sees the ice with Matt Benning's pair. But Anze Kopitar is one of the best forwards in hockey because he works hard, works smart and is a pain in the ass to play against. Not because he's got 'guys to work with'.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He was doing the same thing last season as well when Drai was slumping. His bias knows no bounds.

Nothing is ever draisaitls fault

 

[Zaddy]

Nothing is ever draisaitls fault

On the flipside I don't think there are many fanbases except for this one that would be ready to throw one of their star players under the bus while said player is producing at a PPG rate.

 

[Lacaar]

I'll definitely take the win and 2 points.

But there's nothing I saw in this game that leads me to believe we can compete and take points from the better teams in the league.
Hopefully it acts as a confident booster and we see some signs of life against Winnipeg. They desperately need to get themselves off the McDavid teet.

 

[nabob]

On the flipside I don't think there are many fanbases except for this one that would be ready to throw one of their star players under the bus while said player is producing at a PPG rate.

No one is throwing him under the bus. They’re hoping he can start to show some effort out there and not require McDavid to create plays so that he can get only easy McDavid points.

He’s capable of playing much better hockey than he has been. Not sure why it’s such a crime to point that out.

 

[A91]

for 8.5M drai should be making those around him better, not worse

While I agree, we can only blame Drai so much.
It takes two to tango and Chia got him signed in mid August because of a potential offersheet
Nylander is sitting at home not getting paid in mid October, no offersheet in sight.

Drai has a good agent who took advantage of a dumb GM. It is what it is.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

While I agree, we can only blame Drai so much.
It takes two to tango and Chia got him signed him in mid August because of a potential offersheet
Nylander is sitting at home not getting paid in mid October, no offersheet in sight.

Drai has a good agent who took advantage of a dumb GM. Is what it is.

Wouldn't the simpler solution, as it's known to work (in this market as well as others) to fix the dumb GM's problem for him and just run the guy out of town?

 

[Duke74]

Nothing is ever draisaitls fault

On these boards, everything IS his fault. Or so it seems with some of you.

 

[Soundwave]

for 8.5M drai should be making those around him better, not worse

Doesn't work like that. First off, even if he was just McDavid's winger, he'd still have gotten paid $7.5 million. He was top 10 in the league in points in 16/17 and had a monster playoffs.

Secondly, RNH was paid about 10% of the cap when he signed his deal, when did he ever carry a line?

Just because you pay someone money doesn't absolve the GM of the requirement of actually building a good team around them.

 

[Duke74]

No one is throwing him under the bus. They’re hoping he can start to show some effort out there and not require McDavid to create plays so that he can get only easy McDavid points.

He’s capable of playing much better hockey than he has been. Not sure why it’s such a crime to point that out.

It's not a crime to point it out if it's only a passing observation from time to time. But it's the amount of criticism that he takes (from you and others) in proportion to the level of his play. For instance, a relatively high proportion of your posts are specifically targeting Draisaitl's apparent poor play; so, yes, it looks like you're throwing him specifically under the bus when there are other players doing jack-all. What about Nuge, who spends all of his time with McDavid? Nuge has 2 points in 3 games and no non-McDavid points. In fact, nobody has points without McDavid. Further to that, Drai's points, while connected to McDavid, were not necessarily "easy." His goal was actually a pass from Lucic that he executed very well. So why make Drai your continual scapegoat? His salary?

Can he play better? Yes, absolutely he can. But he's not been put in a position to succeed with unideal linemates. Another problem, which nobody has mentioned is that for the first time, he's learning to center his own line because for the last two years, McLellan put him with McDavid, so he's never really gotten a chance to grow and develop at that position. With how Chiarelli has handcuffed the team, he has less than ideal wingers with which to produce. And on top of that, you have McLellan, who can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. Think about it: if your manager gave you no resources with which to work, your supervisor threw you under the bus, and you were continually placed on teams with which you didn't mesh, how well would you fare, regardless of your salary? I know that, as a professional, you have to do your best with what you have, but really, how well WOULD you do in that position?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Now you are trying to drag McDavid down with him. Wow.

Must be another slow news day. How on Earth did you get that from my post?

When do I ever have anything negative to say about McD.

Hint, I don't but keep searching I guess.