Speculation: OHL may ban body checking

[Kakko Schmakko]

The NHL and CHL have an agreement where the kids drafted out of the CHL can't play in the AHL until they're 20 or have played 4 years of CHL hockey (basically). So other than Skinner, who was drafted out of the USHL, none of the other guys could play in the AHL unless the CHL agreed to waive the rule for a year (which seems unlikely).

I understand that, but if OHL does something so dumb as ban hitting, then that agreement should be tossed out as well.

 

[nyr2k2]

I understand that, but if OHL does something so dumb as ban hitting, then that agreement should be tossed out as well.

I mean...ok, but for one, the OHL is only considering this because they're being pressured (reportedly) by the provincial government, which isn't really their fault. If it came down to banning hitting because the government told you you had to, or not playing, you couldn't blame the OHL for doing what they could to play. A lost season could be financially devastating to many clubs. And whether the agreement "should be thrown out" or not, it would still take agreement from the OHL to do that, and that would still be unlikely, IMO.

 

[EdJovanovski]

It is what it is. I imagine this is what the govt. of Ontario wants now if they're going to allow the OHL to go ahead with a season. From my experience with non-hit leagues there is always some contact with opposing players arriving at the puck around the same time. Women's hockey is played this way as well too?

But really if the health experts in Ontario want to do this during a time of pandemic--I'm going with the health experts. It certainly is an anti-Cuylle style of hockey though but I'm sure in coming years he'll be back to playing how he always has.

“Experts”

 

[eco's bones]

“Experts”

....like actual epidemiologists yes.

 

[EdJovanovski]

....like actual epidemiologists yes.

Don't want to get in to debates here as things can veer off topic but they have been wrong literally every step of the way. I remember being called a conspiracy theorist for suggesting that masks work back in February and that the "experts" were lying to stockpile them for health care workers so us regular citizens couldn't get them. Then Fauci admitted he was doing exactly that. The "experts" said closing borders was bad and wouldn't control the spread. The "experts" said human to human transition was impossible. The "experts" said it was just like the flu and not a major threat. Btw if you keep up with the "experts", The WHO is now saying that lockdowns don't work.

Epidemiologists (who are not a monolith, there are many different opinions among them) are not experts on economics, policy, or hockey. Hell, most of the time they prove not to even be experts in their own field.

 

[eco's bones]

Don't want to get in to debates here as things can veer off topic but they have been wrong literally every step of the way. I remember being called a conspiracy theorist for suggesting that masks work back in February and that the "experts" were lying to stockpile them for health care workers so us regular citizens couldn't get them. Then Fauci admitted he was doing exactly that. The "experts" said closing borders was bad and wouldn't control the spread. The "experts" said human to human transition was impossible. The "experts" said it was just like the flu and not a major threat. Btw if you keep up with the "experts", The WHO is now saying that lockdowns don't work.

Epidemiologists (who are not a monolith, there are many different opinions among them) are not experts on economics, policy, or hockey. Hell, most of the time they prove not to even be experts in their own field.

I don't go to a politician when I have an issue with my health. I do trust politicians more on health issues when they seek and seriously take the advice of people who actually know more about the subject. When they don't do those things I don't trust them. I also don't think a hockey season is worth trading lives for. As far as the economy that's going to be in the shitter until there's at least some control of the virus (there is no control now)---and the economy's not likely to return for a while because the greater % of the population is going to curtail activity until that control happens and if you're looking at the United States specifically much of the country's economic activity is driven by New York on the east coast and California on the West Coast and unless NY and CA are on board with whatever's happening with the White House (which they're not) things ain't going to work and right now things ain't working and I as a NY'er am pretty much behind most of what Gov. Cuomo has done even if I've never voted for him before and might not next time either.

 

[nyr2k2]

Well if we're going to get into this, I'll say that the people I've been paying attention to have been pretty damn accurate about the seriousness of this since the early going, and about masks (which I've been wearing since March), etc.

I think a lot of the "the experts were wrong!" people fail to grasp that this is just what science looks like, live. When you're dealing with a new, relatively unknown virus, you learn on the fly. We can speak definitively about a lot of other viruses because we've had years or decades to study them. We know how they spread. We know how to best contain them. This was all new, so of course "experts" will be wrong. It certainly doesn't help when the most visible experts and expert institutions in the country are undermined and obstructed by politicians.

I have no idea what the science says with regards to this subject and the people I trust, who seem to have a pretty good handle on this in terms of understanding what is or isn't a big risk, haven't said anything. So, I don't know. If it's just an optics thing from politicians, then f*** that. If there's some real science here, it would definitely be something I'd like to know more about it.

But to just dismiss it out of hand is silly.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I think people are just confused how they can come up with hitting is dangerous and will cause more cases but can sit there with a straight face and say nothing about players sitting right next to each other breathing heavily on each other until their next shift, or sitting in a locker room for 15 minutes between periods breathing in the same air, or breathing in your opponent’s face on face offs. Seems like they are just doing anything to make it look like they are doing something.

 

[eco's bones]

Well if we're going to get into this, I'll say that the people I've been paying attention to have been pretty damn accurate about the seriousness of this since the early going, and about masks (which I've been wearing since March), etc.

I think a lot of the "the experts were wrong!" people fail to grasp that this is just what science looks like, live. When you're dealing with a new, relatively unknown virus, you learn on the fly. We can speak definitively about a lot of other viruses because we've had years or decades to study them. We know how they spread. We know how to best contain them. This was all new, so of course "experts" will be wrong. It certainly doesn't help when the most visible experts and expert institutions in the country are undermined and obstructed by politicians.

I have no idea what the science says with regards to this subject and the people I trust, who seem to have a pretty good handle on this in terms of understanding what is or isn't a big risk, haven't said anything. So, I don't know. If it's just an optics thing from politicians, then f*** that. If there's some real science here, it would definitely be something I'd like to know more about it.

But to just dismiss it out of hand is silly.

It's been a learning experience from the beginning really----one that we could all have done without but we're all in the middle of now. IMO we should take precautions to protects ourselves but also to protect others. We should always err on the side of what's safe when we're not sure. It doesn't mean however that we won't catch it--you just don't know but we should try our best.

In Britain they are going to shut down for a month. That's a hard decision but if it saves a lot of lives I think it's a decision that has to be made.

 

[Barnaby]

It's been a learning experience from the beginning really----one that we could all have done without but we're all in the middle of now. IMO we should take precautions to protects ourselves but also to protect others. We should always err on the side of what's safe when we're not sure. It doesn't mean however that we won't catch it--you just don't know but we should try our best.

In Britain they are going to shut down for a month. That's a hard decision but if it saves a lot of lives I think it's a decision that has to be made.

It sounds great in theory, but you shut down for a month then you reopen and cases increase again. Do you shut down again? What about after 3 months? Whose making these decisions? That's forgetting that you also must sell this idea to everyone. My experience is that a lot of people are at their wits end and people are already losing businesses.

To me this whole hockey thing is an optics play. You can't social distance and play hockey. Like many people have pointed out there are literally probably 10 more dangerous scenarios revolving around the game. If your saying guys can't hit then you're basically saying it's not safe for them to be on the ice. So, it's safe or it isn't. You can't tell me hockey is fine, as long as they don't hit each other. It flies in the face of everything rational.

 

[True Blue]

I mean...ok, but for one, the OHL is only considering this because they're being pressured (reportedly) by the provincial government, which isn't really their fault. If it came down to banning hitting because the government told you you had to, or not playing, you couldn't blame the OHL for doing what they could to play. A lost season could be financially devastating to many clubs. And whether the agreement "should be thrown out" or not, it would still take agreement from the OHL to do that, and that would still be unlikely, IMO.

That is fine. But let's push this out a bit. The NHL will start their season. Does the government also pressure Ottawa & Toronto to ban hitting for this year? But if they cross the border, then everyone can hit? And how do you determine who emerges from a corner with a puck?

 

[eco's bones]

It sounds great in theory, but you shut down for a month then you reopen and cases increase again. Do you shut down again? What about after 3 months? Whose making these decisions? That's forgetting that you also must sell this idea to everyone. My experience is that a lot of people are at their wits end and people are already losing businesses.

To me this whole hockey thing is an optics play. You can't social distance and play hockey. Like many people have pointed out there are literally probably 10 more dangerous scenarios revolving around the game. If your saying guys can't hit then you're basically saying it's not safe for them to be on the ice. So, it's safe or it isn't. You can't tell me hockey is fine, as long as they don't hit each other. It flies in the face of everything rational.

The idea is try to clear the cases and start fresh again. Boris is a pretty hardcore conservative but he's listening to his medical people. They're afraid right now. He also had a big scare when this thing started and whether you agree with him much on anything (and I really don't) he's not an idiot.

But businesses are going to take a hit and I can't speak all that much to how Britain has handled its Covid economics because I really don't know. I do know in some European countries they indemnified people's jobs which goes a long way towards protecting your domestic economy. Whether Britain was one of them I'm not sure.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Just gonna paste what I texted Raspewtin and then posted on the main boards. Gotta be efficient:

So lemme see if I have this right.

We're gonna sit on the bench, bus, and dressing room together but let's ban hitting because the virus might...uh, pass from shoulder to shoulder?

Middle school science students understand virology better than this.

It’s no different than the virus ignoring you while you’re eating vs standing up. This is a prime example of virtue signaling. Its entire goal is to make it seem like the league is being politically correct while hurting the development of hundreds of players worse than just not playing.

 

[nyr2k2]

It’s no different than the virus ignoring you while you’re eating vs standing up. This is a prime example of virtue signaling. Its entire goal is to make it seem like the league is being politically correct while hurting the development of hundreds of players worse than just not playing.

I'm not going to touch the "virtue signaling" or whatever but I don't see how playing without checking is worse for a player than not playing at all. That seems crazy, to me.

My kid plays HS soccer for a HS that wins state championships regularly. Right now it doesn't look like they're going to play. They practice in small groups of 10, JV and varsity together. They play 5v5, no goalies, shots have to stay on the ground, players can't go to ground on tackles, etc. Totally suboptimal. Still way better than not playing at all.

Anyway, I don't know why everyone is all up in arms about this when nothing has even been officially decided.

 

[The S5]

It's been a learning experience from the beginning really----one that we could all have done without but we're all in the middle of now. IMO we should take precautions to protects ourselves but also to protect others. We should always err on the side of what's safe when we're not sure. It doesn't mean however that we won't catch it--you just don't know but we should try our best.

In Britain they are going to shut down for a month. That's a hard decision but if it saves a lot of lives I think it's a decision that has to be made.

Hmnn,...Italy shut down and wore masks diligently from the outset. Doesn't seem to matter as they are being hammered again.
Experts?

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I'm not going to touch the "virtue signaling" or whatever but I don't see how playing without checking is worse for a player than not playing at all. That seems crazy, to me.

My kid plays HS soccer for a HS that wins state championships regularly. Right now it doesn't look like they're going to play. They practice in small groups of 10, JV and varsity together. They play 5v5, no goalies, shots have to stay on the ground, players can't go to ground on tackles, etc. Totally suboptimal. Still way better than not playing at all.

Anyway, I don't know why everyone is all up in arms about this when nothing has even been officially decided.

It creates bad habits. If you play for 4 or 5 months without checking, it can start messing with muscle memory. Or you accidentally check someone because of muscle memory because you’re used to checking. Remember how messy the league was after the lockout because of the restrictions imposed on grabbing and hooking et al.? When these players are still learning and growing physically, its unfair to the players who are overly physical and who are trying to grow into their frames and learning to be physical. At least if you aren’t playing games you aren’t relearning how to play. Hitting and physicality is an integral part if the game, even today.

 

[eco's bones]

Hmnn,...Italy shut down and wore masks diligently from the outset. Doesn't seem to matter as they are being hammered again.
Experts?

How do you know how diligent Italians have been? Are you suggesting no safety protocols at all?

 

[nyr2k2]

It creates bad habits. If you play for 4 or 5 months without checking, it can start messing with muscle memory. Or you accidentally check someone because of muscle memory because you’re used to checking. Remember how messy the league was after the lockout because of the restrictions imposed on grabbing and hooking et al.? When these players are still learning and growing physically, its unfair to the players who are overly physical and who are trying to grow into their frames and learning to be physical. At least if you aren’t playing games you aren’t relearning how to play. Hitting and physicality is an integral part if the game, even today.

I dunno, I totally disagree across the board. We'll see how it plays out.

 

[Machinehead]

It’s no different than the virus ignoring you while you’re eating vs standing up. This is a prime example of virtue signaling. Its entire goal is to make it seem like the league is being politically correct while hurting the development of hundreds of players worse than just not playing.

Well this went down a path.

 

[nyr2k2]

Anyone know how many OHL players turn pro in a given year? Like let's assume playing a season without checking had an adverse impact on players (I don't think it would, but I'll play along), and those players who were entering their final year in the OHL before turning pro would be the ones who really suffered--the rest being okay as they could "readjust" the following year. How many guys are we talking? Again, I'm asking approximately how many guys we would expect to play in the OHL in 20-21 and then turn pro in 21-22.

 

[True Blue]

It is going to make evaluation of prospects very difficult. Not quite apples to apples, but let's take the NFL draftees as an example. If colleges had to play two hand touch, how can you evaluate talent properly? If you have a defensive player who has very good speed but is a horrendous tackler, he will appear to be a rock star. Conversely on the other side of the ball, how can you evaluate a running back properly if he is playing in a non-tackling conference?

 

[The S5]

How do you know how diligent Italians have been? Are you suggesting no safety protocols at all?

I know how to read and I read varied sources.
I suggest whatever safety protocols make people feel safe. For those who are deathly afraid of this virus, please stay at home. That is the best way to avoid any potential exposure. For those who feel that they are healthy and not immuno-compromised, please go about living your life.

 

[Thirty One]

I know how to read

Show off.

 

[Lion Hound]

I have an idea. Let's have a Spelling Bee?

 

[Thirty One]

I have an idea. Let's have a Spelling Bee?

Doesn't work very well virtually.

Your word is: "Nieuwendyk"