Offseason Thread vol. XI - Friend of a Friend Edition

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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,890
9,306
I want nothing to do with ROR. Kid only wants top dollar, and that kills this team. It doesn't matter how good that kid is, he'll never be on a championship roster with that attitude. Not in a salary cap world.

And Kane is way too expensive to acquire.
 

IranCondraAffair

Registered User
Mar 10, 2006
9,258
3,956
Why do people want Berglund? We have enough 3rd liners. We need 1st line talent. No point trading for players that will make our team marginally better, so that we just miss the playoffs again or get bumped in the first round, and end up drafting a player that is AT BEST a 2nd liner.

Either trade for Kane and get a first line winger, or roll with the team we have, end up bottom 5 and draft a star forward. You can trade for all the Berglund's, Stewart's, and Hodgson's of the world...but if you don't have legitimate 1st line forwards (including a 1A C), you won't be a cup contender. And that's the goal right? Not to just make the playoffs, but to contend for years on years like CHI/LA?

Evander Kane is a 1st line talent and Patrik Berglund is a 3rd line talent? I don't agree.

I understand perfectly the motivation to look for high end, first-line, talent players over a collection of mediocre ones, and in most cases I would agree with you. In this instance however, I really don't see the vast gulf of talent/potential between the two players that you see.

Kane is almost exactly 3 years younger, which is a definite point in his favour, but he would also cost a lot more in $ and assets to acquire. Kane has been in the NHL for 5 seasons. Berglund for 6 seasons. They're about the same size. Actually, Berglund is slightly bigger and taller but not noticeably.

Kane has 99 goals in 5 years, Berglund has 106 in 6 seasons. (About 2 goals difference a year if you break it down). I'm not a big "advanced stats guy", but Berglund also plays significantly less even strength and PP minutes than Evander Kane as well, so if you put them on an even playing field for ice-time, it would probably go Berglund's way. Assists are about the same as well, 101 to 114 in favour of Berglund, but he has also played more games with less ice-time. Berglund has the better shooting % of the two.

They both play in all situations, ES, PP, and PK. As mentioned, Kane plays more minutes, though I hesitate to penalize Berglund for playing on a much deeper team. I also don't penalize Kane for always missing the playoffs either.

As far as giveaways/takeaways go, Kane gives the puck away more than Berglund and Berglund takes it away from the opposition far more. This is a significant point in Berglund's favour. Kane hits a lot more, but Berglund has a better +/-. (I don't really put much faith in either stat because hits are often inflated by certain teams and +/- is more of a team statistic and I don't want to benefit Berglund or penalize Kane for something their team mates are doing.)

Both of them have had good line mates and poor line mates over the years, and although I can't imagine any argument that gives either player a significant advantage in this department, I'd be willing to listen to one.

It should also be noted that Kane takes A LOT more penalties than Berglund, more than twice as many. That is great for fantasy hockey, but Ottawa already takes a lot of penalties, and they can really hurt a team.

If it matters, they were both first round draft picks, though Kane was picked higher.

Maybe you can explain what you see that differentiates them so much. I see two good VERY good 2nd line players who contribute in different ways to their teams, and while I fully understand that Kane is a much more valuable player and a better scorer, I don't see the gulf in talent that you see.

I've seen Berglund play about 20-25 times and Kane about a dozen, maybe that might influence me a bit.
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
42,409
16,040
I'm rocking
ROR lazar Kane
Hoffman Turris Ryan
Puempel zibanejad stone
Paul maidens pageau
Right now. I wanna get rid of Ryan cuz I'm far along in my career any suggestions. Thanks.

For anyone who didn't understand. This is my 2020 NHL 13 roster.
 

Vesa Awesaka

#KeepTheSenate
Jul 4, 2013
18,236
25
Ryan Orielly is not nearly as talented as people think he is. I hope the leafs pick him up so he becomes a 15-20 goal scorer thats getting paid 8 mil a year.
 

BonkTastic

ಠ_ಠ
Nov 9, 2010
30,901
10,092
Parts Unknown
Well, David Booth got married. Maybe why he hasn't signed anywhere yet?


... Oh, by the way, here's a wedding picture:

BsTYBS4CEAE6fvE.jpg:small
 

Powdered Toast Man

Is he a ham?
Nov 22, 2005
13,852
1
"...a little to the side. Turn. Now grab her hips. Wonderful. You're making babies. You're making babies. Smile. You're happy and...finished. Okay. Take five and then we meet up inside. We have an old couch we used for interviews back in the day. It will be perfect."
 

MiscBrah

Registered User
Mar 16, 2012
3,550
548
That's clearly a funny/joke picture. Heaven forbid they have a little bit of fun on their wedding day.

"Nope please stand side by side, no touching. Keep those hands where I can see them mr. Booth! I'm a photographer not a pornographer."
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,847
9,785
Montreal, Canada
I read these threads and there is always a question that comes back to me...

What do people mean by "top line forward" ???

Just FYI, only 17 forwards in a 30 teams league hit 70 pts last year... So I'm not sure what people are expecting. Oh and only 47 forwards with more than 60 pts, so there's only 1 or 2 by team in average...

And I'll give the chance to this group and hope from the bottom of my heart that I am wrong but we don't look very good right now.

I'll still watch, like each year, every game, and hope that I eat a big bag of crow.

Just don't get how pro hockey people think we can be great with that roster, so many IF ...

You can't just go with the lowest payroll in the league with one of the youngest rosters and expect to be great... Sens have been rebuilding, next season will be year N.4, it will gives us an idea about the future. Remember, Chicago, LA, etc all struggled before becoming a good team.

And the IFs are a constant for pretty much every team, every year.

If the Sens aren't making the playoffs then i want them to be as ****** as can be to get the best player they can get

Even if we don't finish low in the standings, they still manage to "get the best player they can get" (Karlsson, Lazar, Ceci, Englund). It just doesn't matter that much

I'm really excited to see a full season of Mark Stone on the big club. Might be the number one thing I'm looking forward to this coming year.

Mi tambien and many other things... Lazar? Chiasson? Guptill? Claesson? Englund? etc.

Going after Kane means saying goodbye to one (or more) of Zibby, Ceci, Lazar or Lehner. We're not getting Kane by unloading guys like Greening, Condra, Neil, Phillips or a 3rd rate prospect.

I'm not sure if the kid is worth it.

Is it just me that thinks Kane has a bit less value than Ryan had and that Zibby, Ceci, Lazar and particularly Lehner all have more value than Silfverberg?

Thing is, it wouldn't just be Ceci or Lazar (or any of the other mentioned). It would be Ceci/Lazar + 1st in 2015 + another piece.

And it would be worth more than Silf + Noesen + 1st (weak draft) for a player that IMO is worth less than Ryan

I think it would be more something like Stone + Puempel + 2nd

That's already a pretty good package and similar to the price paid for Ryan (I'm pretty sure that Anaheim insisted on a 1st because their argument was that it was a weak draft)

If it's much more, I'd pass.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,615
23,301
East Coast
I read these threads and there is always a question that comes back to me...

What do people mean by "top line forward" ???

Just FYI, only 17 forwards in a 30 teams league hit 70 pts last year... So I'm not sure what people are expecting. Oh and only 47 forwards with more than 60 pts, so there's only 1 or 2 by team in average...



You can't just go with the lowest payroll in the league with one of the youngest rosters and expect to be great... Sens have been rebuilding, next season will be year N.4, it will gives us an idea about the future. Remember, Chicago, LA, etc all struggled before becoming a good team.

And the IFs are a constant for pretty much every team, every year.



Even if we don't finish low in the standings, they still manage to "get the best player they can get" (Karlsson, Lazar, Ceci, Englund). It just doesn't matter that much



Mi tambien and many other things... Lazar? Chiasson? Guptill? Claesson? Englund? etc.



Is it just me that thinks Kane has a bit less value than Ryan had and that Zibby, Ceci, Lazar and particularly Lehner all have more value than Silfverberg?



And it would be worth more than Silf + Noesen + 1st (weak draft) for a player that IMO is worth less than Ryan

I think it would be more something like Stone + Puempel + 2nd

That's already a pretty good package and similar to the price paid for Ryan (I'm pretty sure that Anaheim insisted on a 1st because their argument was that it was a weak draft)

If it's much more, I'd pass.

Karlsson is the exception. There is no way they take any of the other guys if they finish with a top 3 pick, and likely don't take Karlsson either.

I'm sure they would rather get McDavid, Eichel, or Hanfin than whomever they'd be "pleased" with at 10.
 

WhiteLight*

Guest
That's clearly a funny/joke picture. Heaven forbid they have a little bit of fun on their wedding day.

"Nope please stand side by side, no touching. Keep those hands where I can see them mr. Booth! I'm a photographer not a pornographer."

OK. But then he posted it on twitter :help:
 

Qward

Because! That's why!
Jul 23, 2010
18,941
5,905
Behind you, look out
That's clearly a funny/joke picture. Heaven forbid they have a little bit of fun on their wedding day.

"Nope please stand side by side, no touching. Keep those hands where I can see them mr. Booth! I'm a photographer not a pornographer."

You married?
Tell me what your wife thinks. Do you think her parents would appreciate a picture like that?

He can do what ever he wants. Doesn't mean we have to think it's funny or not distasteful.

article-2339669-1A435C45000005DC-366_964x641.jpg


To me, that is a funny wedding picture. But maybe I am old fashioned.
 
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