Offseason Thread III: FA Frenzy (Are we going to be "too good" next year?)

[CBJWerenski8]

Makes no sense to move him now unless you’re getting a center in return. His value can only go up as a pending UFA.

 

[JacketsDavid]

The return is probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder even at the deadline. Domi doesn't have a good playoff track record.

So the more important consideration is just giving Larsen the best group to work with, and making sure the right guys get ice time for long term purposes. They want to re-build a locker room and a stronger team sense, and it's harder to do that if the lineup is full of guys that are obviously rentals.

Honest question - do you think teams are trading for playoff stats at the deadline? I think it's more teams are trying to get into the playoffs.
Nick Foligno had 51 games, 9 goals and 13 assists and a -6 +/- (his career playoff stat line prior to being traded) and he got us a first rounder. I think he got the first rounder by what he brought in the regular season historically more so than his playoff experiences?

I'm guessing us leaving Domi exposed certainly showed the CBJ were willing to lose him. I still arguethink (just my opinion) that Domi and his team surprised the CBJ with the timing of his surgery.

Unfortunately I think we would be selling him at a discount right now. I would much rather wait until December and let him play a month+ and then move him.

 

[majormajor]

Players I wouldn't mind getting in FA

Marcus Johansson : can play centre, and both wings.

A. Anisimov : guy can still score. Again we need center depth and he's good defensively as well.

E. Stall : he looked good in the playoffs. Another center piece that we need.

I think brining in a vet to play centre is a must.

Thoughts guys?

Anisimov and Staal can't skate anymore. On a sheltered bottom six scoring line they might still do well, but that's not where we have any shortage. We don't have a great fit to put in between Laine and Voracek and that's not something they can do.

Marcus Johansson was once upon a time a great transition player, I'm not sure what has happened to his game in the last couple years. Injuries have set him back.

 

[majormajor]

Honest question - do you think teams are trading for playoff stats at the deadline? I think it's more teams are trying to get into the playoffs.
Nick Foligno had 51 games, 9 goals and 13 assists and a -6 +/- (his career playoff stat line prior to being traded) and he got us a first rounder. I think he got the first rounder by what he brought in the regular season historically more so than his playoff experiences?

I'm guessing us leaving Domi exposed certainly showed the CBJ were willing to lose him. I still arguethink (just my opinion) that Domi and his team surprised the CBJ with the timing of his surgery.

Unfortunately I think we would be selling him at a discount right now. I would much rather wait until December and let him play a month+ and then move him.

No, Foligno and Savard were 100% traded for playoff value. They could have missed every regular season game with their new clubs and still have gotten great returns. Heck Riley Nash got us a 6th rounder when it was known he wouldn't play in the regular season. The deadline is not about getting into the playoffs, full stop.

I think Domi could do well this year, maybe even capture some more magic with Bjorkstrand. But he's had so much inconsistency over the years that a good month of hockey will still not do much for his trade value, which is mostly based on perceived playoff ability anyways.

 

[majormajor]

Makes no sense to move him now unless you’re getting a center in return. His value can only go up as a pending UFA.

Don't you think there might be other considerations other than trade value?

 

[EspenK]

Makes no sense to move him now unless you’re getting a center in return. His value can only go up as a pending UFA.

Because if he sucks you can cut him lose for nothing at season end? I'm not sure I understand how that makes his value increase. I agree with major that his playoff performance which is based on a small sample would be a bigger factor if he had a reputation as something other than the one he has.

 

[DJA]

Not surprising. We were prepared to lose him for nothing in the expansion draft. I’m guessing the relationship hasn’t improved much since.

 

[VT]

The return is probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder even at the deadline. Domi doesn't have a good playoff track record.

So the more important consideration is just giving Larsen the best group to work with, and making sure the right guys get ice time for long term purposes. They want to re-build a locker room and a stronger team sense, and it's harder to do that if the lineup is full of guys that are obviously rentals.

Roslovic and Domi in TOP 6, I don`t know. Both of them are offensive centers with not ideal defense. And we need one two-way there. When Max has came PLD was there, but the situation has changed. But his value now is terrible. Maybe it would be better to wait.

Anisimov and Staal can't skate anymore. On a sheltered bottom six scoring line they might still do well, but that's not where we have any shortage. We don't have a great fit to put in between Laine and Voracek and that's not something they can do.

Marcus Johansson was once upon a time a great transition player, I'm not sure what has happened to his game in the last couple years. Injuries have set him back.

Maybe try Texier. He is good in defense, forchecking, speed, skill... . But he must work on his positional play to doesn`t play like the winger.

 

[koteka]

Honest question - do you think teams are trading for playoff stats at the deadline? I think it's more teams are trying to get into the playoffs.

I think teams are trying to address weaknesses / try to become more complete teams. Playoff record is helpful, but it is also a small sample for most players.

Toronto knew they had a toughness issue as well as a lack of depth. Foligno is tough and can be moved around the line up. Tampa knew their scoring would be fine, but if they had a weakness it was right D. They were going to lose key guys the following season due to the cap, so they went after the best right D available.

I think at that point it becomes a question of who is buying and who is selling. If 3 teams are looking for a right D and you are the team with the best right D, you do pretty well by selling.

Someone like Taylor Hall might have had a better return this year if the teams that were really looking to go for it (Toronto, Tampa) weren’t loaded on their top 2 lines.

 

[majormajor]

Maybe try Texier. He is good in defense, forchecking, speed, skill... . But he must work on his positional play to doesn`t play like the winger.

If we're talking about Texier filling in in-between Laine and Voracek - I'm not worried about his defensive ability at center but I do wonder about his offensive sense and his shot. His release last year was painfully slow. If you have a strongly pass first guy in Voracek, it helps to have two guys on his line who can put the puck in the net. Otherwise everyone knows it's going to Laine.

 

[Youngguns80]

If only we had a 1C hmmm. Does anyone know any 1C’s available?

 

[majormajor]

I think teams are trying to address weaknesses / try to become more complete teams. Playoff record is helpful, but it is also a small sample for most players.

Toronto knew they had a toughness issue as well as a lack of depth. Foligno is tough and can be moved around the line up. Tampa knew their scoring would be fine, but if they had a weakness it was right D. They were going to lose key guys the following season due to the cap, so they went after the best right D available.

I think at that point it becomes a question of who is buying and who is selling. If 3 teams are looking for a right D and you are the team with the best right D, you do pretty well by selling.

Someone like Taylor Hall might have had a better return this year if the teams that were really looking to go for it (Toronto, Tampa) weren’t loaded on their top 2 lines.

I agree with your general point. I'll just point out that the Hall example is a bit misleading. He would have fetched Buffalo a 1st but he wasn't willing to waive his NMC for anywhere but Boston.

 

[koteka]

I agree with your general point. I'll just point out that the Hall example is a bit misleading. He would have fetched Buffalo a 1st but he wasn't willing to waive his NMC for anywhere but Boston.

But would he have waived for Tampa or Colorado if they had come looking? It would have been hard to say no to Cup chases with those teams. They didn’t need him, so of course that probably never came up. But Boston couldn’t be sure that he isn’t in discussions to waive for someone else. It is kind of a poker game at that point. But Boston probably had a good idea that there wasn’t as much competition for Hall as there was for Savard.

 

[VT]

If we're talking about Texier filling in in-between Laine and Voracek - I'm not worried about his defensive ability at center but I do wonder about his offensive sense and his shot. His release last year was painfully slow. If you have a strongly pass first guy in Voracek, it helps to have two guys on his line who can put the puck in the net. Otherwise everyone knows it's going to Laine.

I agree but we must try. And count on him to get better. Tex has still one problem, he holds the puck more than he should its. But if not trade I really don`t see a player there. Roslovic. O.K. but in this case would have to play with two goalies. Domi, Stenlund or Danforth the same. Jenner and Kuraly... . And it's not always possible to keep the puck more than opponent.

We don`t need 1C but two-way 2C.

 

[Jan]

Also keep in mind we're projected to have about $25M in cap space so there will be other moves:

1 Maybe taking on salary for picks and prospects as we've all speculated
2. Sgning some guys long term - Roslovic, Robinson, Tex to start with. Zach W is the big ?. But also interesting if the CBJ would roll the dice on signing for multi year for Bean or Boquist.
3. I think if a C or stay at home D man is standing near the start of the season they may add. Again I think that option is out there just because so many teams have no cash to spend, and if other teams aren't spending money we may be able to sign a guy or two on pillow deals for this year. Now I don't want to slow development, but at same time if you could get a guy to slot into 1C just to leave Roslovic/Tex/Jenner it could be good. Again it won't be a sexy pickup but a chance a guy may slide.

I do personally not like to commit to player that have not yet proven they is keepers. Roslovic, Robinson and Zach yes but Tex to start need to prove that he is not a diurnal fly, before commit long term.
I do not know Bean that well, so no comment, but we got him for a second round pick, so other sees (professional hockey management) him as expendable, for a draft gamble. So maybe we should start with giving him a chance to prove himself to us.

About Boquist, I just come to think about Domi and Laine last season. They was both awful, so yes I has high hopes for Boquist, let us see first, who he is and what he can do and what he can't.
One thing is certain, Jones was not too good last season, so there are still hope for both Domi and Laine....

 

[Jan]

Many want to trade for a new 1C, that would probably be nice to have one, of known quality.

Problem is, Last season was in the bind and to me, some of it was Tort trying to destroy the team or something. I do not know.

But when you send our leading score down on the fourth line (Bjorky) and basically making that out top scoring line, with very limit playing time.
Then something is obviously wrong and it looks like sabotage or something.

With that in mind and the declimb not just of Domi and Laine but also of Zach, Cam, Jones and many more. Yes almost everybody on this team.

How good and how bad is our centers really?
Domi was actually quite fine looking the last few Games, playing with Bjorky. Tex looked very good for some time with Bjorky after PLD left. Actually Tex look fine in the first few games.
Robinson looked very good with Bjprk for a few games.
Roslovic was generally doing well, but was most playing on a stable line.

As I see it we only learned that there two players on this team, that played very well, even things was very bad for everybody else and that was Bjorky and Roslovic.

Is that not telling something about their quality?

But did we learn anything about anybody else?

 

[DJA]

 

[Fro]

1 yr 2m

 

[CBJ goalie]

I might be in the minority here, but I like Domi and his style of play. Yeah, he takes some bad penalties but he's got some good hands, and gave the team a shot in the arm when they needed it.
I'd hate to see a one-and-done with him.

 

[majormajor]

I might be in the minority here, but I like Domi and his style of play. Yeah, he takes some bad penalties but he's got some good hands, and gave the team a shot in the arm when they needed it.
I'd hate to see a one-and-done with him.

I can see all of that, I can also imagine that they want to move Domi to make Lars' job easier.

 

[majormajor]

Many want to trade for a new 1C, that would probably be nice to have one, of known quality.

Problem is, Last season was in the bind and to me, some of it was Tort trying to destroy the team or something. I do not know.

But when you send our leading score down on the fourth line (Bjorky) and basically making that out top scoring line, with very limit playing time.
Then something is obviously wrong and it looks like sabotage or something.

With that in mind and the declimb not just of Domi and Laine but also of Zach, Cam, Jones and many more. Yes almost everybody on this team.

How good and how bad is our centers really?
Domi was actually quite fine looking the last few Games, playing with Bjorky. Tex looked very good for some time with Bjorky after PLD left. Actually Tex look fine in the first few games.
Robinson looked very good with Bjprk for a few games.
Roslovic was generally doing well, but was most playing on a stable line.

As I see it we only learned that there two players on this team, that played very well, even things was very bad for everybody else and that was Bjorky and Roslovic.

Is that not telling something about their quality?

But did we learn anything about anybody else?

That's one of the most galling things about last season - that we really didn't learn that much. So many guys disappointed and yet Torts was coaching so terribly that it's hard to be sure if a player was at fault or simply mishandled. Many of us were saying as far back as February that we had to fire Torts during the year or we wouldn't learn about what our players could do. We said that the learning would be pushed back to next year if we didn't make a coaching change during the season, and here we are in the summer clueless about what to expect from half the roster.

 

[GoJackets1]

That's one of the most galling things about last season - that we really didn't learn that much. So many guys disappointed and yet Torts was coaching so terribly that it's hard to be sure if a player was at fault or simply mishandled. Many of us were saying as far back as February that we had to fire Torts during the year or we wouldn't learn about what our players could do. We said that the learning would be pushed back to next year if we didn't make a coaching change during the season, and here we are in the summer clueless about what to expect from half the roster.

Yup, it should've happened, at the latest, the instant that they blew that 4-1 lead to Florida. Especially now knowing that Lars was such a highly thought-of candidate.

 

[NotWendell]

If only we had a 1C hmmm. Does anyone know any 1C’s available?

All you have to do is pick one from a 1C tree!

 

[NotWendell]

They have good doctors in Denver.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

Johnson
Sillinger
Marchenko
Voronkov
Texier
Chinakhov
Foudy
Bemstrom

All 18-22 and will be looking to claim a top 9 spot within the next 1-2 years. I think even in a rebuild we might need to package up a couple.