Offseason Moves Part IV

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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Our powerplay stinks because there's no real plan combined with a lack of movement. Tavares gets the puck on the wall, he holds it. He moves forward or toward the blue line slightly. No shooting lane? It gets passed to the point. It then gets given back to Tavares. He does the same thing again because there's no set plan on where the puck should be going or how it should be getting there.

Watching Backstrom for Washington really shows how running a PP works. The dude is constantly moving and turning with the puck, creating new angles and openings. He's very deliberate and confident in what he's doing with the puck. Everyone knows he's going to Ovechkin if he can, and they still have success with it because he's just that good at creating lanes and space. Even in the series against us, when it became apparent that the same old Ovi play wasn't going to work, Backstrom started to distribute in tighter spaces on his own side, creating looks for other teammates.

We need more decisiveness on the PP. Who is handling the puck? Why are they handling it? Who are we getting the puck to as the primary option? Who is the back up option? I feel like Tavares is handling the puck because he's the best player on the team, and so everyone is too eager to get the puck to him. They take one look, if there aren't any obvious options it goes right to Tavares. If Tavares is the PP QB, he needs to be dishing it somewhere definitive. If he's the go to for the goals, he should not be handling the puck nearly as much. Movement is what really works on a PP, and we have very little of that.
 
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stranger34

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Mar 6, 2007
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Nassau County
Agreed! Neilson should be the PK head and match up lines for defense and any offense he gives should be BONUS....not counted on. We REALLY need stronger team defense, and with Lee and Nelson showing their stuff, I see no reason in Hades why they should be anywhere but in Neilson's spot, with Neilson's energy going towards what he excels at: DEFENSE.

You show me the best, hardest slap shots in camp and then decide who gets the point on the power play.......and if it ain't a defenseman, it's a sniper with a capable defenseman covering his butt.

The only issue I have with Frans on the PK is I want him paired at F with another center because FN drove me downright crazy last year with clean defensive zone FO losses.
 

rockhouse15

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Jul 23, 2011
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Our powerplay stinks because there's no real plan combined with a lack of movement. Tavares gets the puck on the wall, he holds it. He moves forward or toward the blue line slightly. No shooting lane? It gets passed to the point. It then gets given back to Tavares. He does the same thing again because there's no set plan on where the puck should be going or how it should be getting there.

Watching Backstrom for Washington really shows how running a PP works. The dude is constantly moving and turning with the puck, creating new angles and openings. He's very deliberate and confident in what he's doing with the puck. Everyone knows he's going to Ovechkin if he can, and they still have success with it because he's just that good at created lanes and space. Even in the series against us, when it became apparent that the same old Ovi play wasn't going to work, Backstrom started to distribute in tighter spaces on his own side, creating looks for other teammates.

We need more decisiveness on the PP. Who is handling the puck? Why are they handling it? Who are we getting the puck to as the primary option? Who is the back up option? I feel like Tavares is handling the puck because he's the best player on the team, and so everyone is too eager to get the puck to him. They take one look, if there aren't any obvious options it goes right to Tavares. If Tavares is the PP QB, he needs to be dishing it somewhere definitive. If he's the go to for the goals, he should not be handling the puck nearly as much. Movement is what really works on a PP, and we have very little of that.

This is everything I have been complaining about the Isles PP for the last few years. It all starts and ends with how Tavares is used on the PP, both how he plays and how his teammates play off of that. I'm not blaming him for all of its problems and he's actually been elite the last 3 years on the PP. In the last 3 years of skaters with at least 400 minutes of PP time, he's 9th in P/60. The thing is he can be just sooooo much better. When I watch guys like Crosby, Giroux and Backstrom on the PP the one thing I always see is near constant movement to a dangerous position with and without the puck. Tavares has near unmatched skill with the puck and when he is in a dangerous position he is near unstoppable. But he has to go to that position more often and consistently to keep the pressure on the PK.
 

rockhouse15

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Jul 23, 2011
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The only issue I have with Frans on the PK is I want him paired at F with another center because FN drove me downright crazy last year with clean defensive zone FO losses.

Hopefully Grabbo can stay healthy long enough to take more face-offs in all situations. Not sure why the coaching staff won't utilize his draw ability more often but it is definitely needed since Brock and Frans have poor FO%. I've said this before but in certain situations JT needs to be out there taking more draws instead of Frans when we need a big d-zone face-off win.
 

Seph

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The only issue I have with Frans on the PK is I want him paired at F with another center because FN drove me downright crazy last year with clean defensive zone FO losses.

Problem with that is that there's only one forward on the team that PKs and is better at faceoffs (Cizikas), and that would leave no one to take draws on 2nd PK unit.

Of the guys that aren't on the PK, you really only have Tavares, Grabo and Okposo who are better than Frans at draws. Okposo makes the most sense, since he did do some PKing earlier in his career, but you don't really want to wear out your first liners with PK time. Grabo's never been a PKer in his career, so it's hard to say if he could do it. Tavares has both never been a PKer and is a first liner.

So without a trade, none of the options of getting a better faceoff guy to kill penalties with Frans really work, sadly. Though, this is why I've advocated picking up a faceoff ace/PK specialist for a while now.
 

stranger34

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Mar 6, 2007
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Problem with that is that there's only one forward on the team that PKs and is better at faceoffs (Cizikas), and that would leave no one to take draws on 2nd PK unit.

Of the guys that aren't on the PK, you really only have Tavares, Grabo and Okposo who are better than Frans at draws. Okposo makes the most sense, since he did do some PKing earlier in his career, but you don't really want to wear out your first liners with PK time. Grabo's never been a PKer in his career, so it's hard to say if he could do it. Tavares has both never been a PKer and is a first liner.

So without a trade, none of the options of getting a better faceoff guy to kill penalties with Frans really work, sadly. Though, this is why I've advocated picking up a faceoff ace/PK specialist for a while now.

the role you describe is what I think Cizikas needs to embrace and become if he wants to have a long and successful NHL career.
 

CupHolders

Really Fries My Bananas!
Aug 8, 2006
7,501
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Our powerplay stinks because there's no real plan combined with a lack of movement. Tavares gets the puck on the wall, he holds it. He moves forward or toward the blue line slightly. No shooting lane? It gets passed to the point. It then gets given back to Tavares. He does the same thing again because there's no set plan on where the puck should be going or how it should be getting there.

Watching Backstrom for Washington really shows how running a PP works. The dude is constantly moving and turning with the puck, creating new angles and openings. He's very deliberate and confident in what he's doing with the puck. Everyone knows he's going to Ovechkin if he can, and they still have success with it because he's just that good at creating lanes and space. Even in the series against us, when it became apparent that the same old Ovi play wasn't going to work, Backstrom started to distribute in tighter spaces on his own side, creating looks for other teammates.

We need more decisiveness on the PP. Who is handling the puck? Why are they handling it? Who are we getting the puck to as the primary option? Who is the back up option? I feel like Tavares is handling the puck because he's the best player on the team, and so everyone is too eager to get the puck to him. They take one look, if there aren't any obvious options it goes right to Tavares. If Tavares is the PP QB, he needs to be dishing it somewhere definitive. If he's the go to for the goals, he should not be handling the puck nearly as much. Movement is what really works on a PP, and we have very little of that.

Overall, I agree with many of your assertions. But I wonder if it is a chicken or an egg issue. Does the appearance of "lack of movement" come first or is it a by-product of their inability to get a shot off quick enough... leading to moving the puck around some more once the "shooting lane has closed."

Is there a plan? Doug Weight has a had a long successful career in various PP systems in different organizations. I have to think there is some kind of plan? Maybe, it is an ineffective plan; or maybe, it looks ineffective because it is not executed by the players correctly? I vaguely do recall a quote from Cappy or Weight about how they want the players to shoot more and have not coached them otherwise. But, I do agree with you that despite whatever cause (lack of movement, poor shooting) the end-result of many PP is exactly what you describe... Tavares and company meandering back and forth looking aimlessly for shot opportunities.

Backstrom... he absolutely does run a wonderful power play. He seems to have a calm and patience "decisiveness" that I don't always see with many of our forwards (Tavares and Okposo especially). The Isles seem to do everything frenetically. Which is great for 5-5 play and attacking the offensive zone. But, somewhat pointless in a PP where the zone entry is often abdicated by the opponent. Backstrom also has Ovechkin (arguably the best shot in the NHL) as a weapon. Even when nullified, as the Isles did pretty well in the playoffs; Ovechkin's shot is a lurking threat that has to be accounted for. That threat alone is enough to buy Backstrom and their PP space and time.

To surmise, Is it a lack of a plan or structure on the PP? Inability of players to execute what is expected? Lack of confidence in their own ability? I honestly do not know. Personally, I think the Isles move the puck "well enough," definitely not at the elite level of Washington. Maybe it is as you suggest, a lack of not knowing who are the primary and secondary options. Whatever the cause, the Isles still have a lack of good shooters. They have players with good shots, but not players who can get off good shots quickly and in the right time and space.

I don't want to derail this thread much more, but I would be curious to here what you think of their Penalty Kill... with a name like PK Cronin? Why do you think their PK faired better at the end of the year? I couldn't tell if they made any structural adjustment or the players were just "doing it better." To me, it looked like they pressured more but maintained the same setup.

Back on thread topic: I'm still hoping for a 1-2 year Erhoff signing. The lack of Erhoff signing leads me to think that he is holding out for a longer term deal from someone. Hopefully he and his agent blink, and if the Isles are interested; they can get him for short term.
 
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seabass45

Registered User
Jan 12, 2007
8,182
1,448
So he will back up Talbot?????

My guess is that it'll be a competition and the worst of the three will either be scratched or be sent to the AHL and they'll take the hit. Nilsson wasn't signing a deal unless it was one way and Edmonton is still nervous about their situation.
 

MatthewBarnabysTears

Registered User
Mar 18, 2013
2,579
575
So he will back up Talbot?????

one way contracts under the current CBA just mean that the salary remains the same whether or not the player is in the AHL. so my guess is that he's an expensive (if surprising) insurance policy if either of the career backup goalies they're attempting to roll with struggle.
 

TROLLCHUK

Registered User
Jul 1, 2006
5,065
46
My guess is that it'll be a competition and the worst of the three will either be scratched or be sent to the AHL and they'll take the hit. Nilsson wasn't signing a deal unless it was one way and Edmonton is still nervous about their situation.

It would be so Edmonton if Nilsson outplays Talbot.
 

crasherino

Registered User
May 9, 2013
7,342
2,836
Would some team please give JT Miller an offer sheet that would bump his salary up a good deal and screw the Rags?

Thanks in advance.
 

rockhouse15

Registered User
Jul 23, 2011
669
0
Would some team please give JT Miller an offer sheet that would bump his salary up a good deal and screw the Rags?

Thanks in advance.

I hope you don't mean us bc I would rather not have to sign a $7 million a year offer sheet for Strome next year or risk losing him to the Rangers.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
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Overall, I agree with many of your assertions. But I wonder if it is a chicken or an egg issue. Does the appearance of "lack of movement" come first or is it a by-product of their inability to get a shot off quick enough... leading to moving the puck around some more once the "shooting lane has closed."

Is there a plan? Doug Weight has a had a long successful career in various PP systems in different organizations. I have to think there is some kind of plan? Maybe, it is an ineffective plan; or maybe, it looks ineffective because it is not executed by the players correctly? I vaguely do recall a quote from Cappy or Weight about how they want the players to shoot more and have not coached them otherwise. But, I do agree with you that despite whatever cause (lack of movement, poor shooting) the end-result of many PP is exactly what you describe... Tavares and company meandering back and forth looking aimlessly for shot opportunities.

Backstrom... he absolutely does run a wonderful power play. He seems to have a calm and patience "decisiveness" that I don't always see with many of our forwards (Tavares and Okposo especially). The Isles seem to do everything frenetically. Which is great for 5-5 play and attacking the offensive zone. But, somewhat pointless in a PP where the zone entry is often abdicated by the opponent. Backstrom also has Ovechkin (arguably the best shot in the NHL) as a weapon. Even when nullified, as the Isles did pretty well in the playoffs; Ovechkin's shot is a lurking threat that has to be accounted for. That threat alone is enough to buy Backstrom and their PP space and time.

To surmise, Is it a lack of a plan or structure on the PP? Inability of players to execute what is expected? Lack of confidence in their own ability? I honestly do not know. Personally, I think the Isles move the puck "well enough," definitely not at the elite level of Washington. Maybe it is as you suggest, a lack of not knowing who are the primary and secondary options. Whatever the cause, the Isles still have a lack of good shooters. They have players with good shots, but not players who can get off good shots quickly and in the right time and space.

I think you're being fair here. It's hard to know exactly what's happening without being at practices and being on the bench or in the locker room. It just appears like the plan is, get Tavares the puck. Try for one-timer at the point. If that fails, get Tavares the puck. Then there's that hesitation on what to do next.

It could very well be a poorly executed powerplay or a bad strategy that's trying to be implemented so the passing lanes don't open up properly.

Backstrom having Ovechkin is a huge advantage, no doubt. His demeanor with the puck never changes though, whether Ovechkin is being taken away or not. He knows with certainty where he wants the puck to go. Our PP looks like we're waiting to see where the puck should go.



In this brief video, we'll see Backstrom carry the puck toward the middle of the ice slowly. He starts coasting toward the point and sucks two defenders with him because if they don't, he's going to waltz into the slot and rip a shot. The moment those two defenders come out to him, he slips a pass down to the goal line, which is then passed to Brouwer for the goal in front. Phaneuf bites on the pass down to the goal line that allows Brouwer to get open. That's because the passing is accurate and decisive. The entire Capitals team knows where that puck is going once it gets moved down to the goal line like that. And if Phaneuf doesn't bite, the pass would likely go to the wall back to Backstrom (he's already in position to receive that pass when the goal is scored), and they'd set up another play.



On this one they're going to Ovechkin, as per usual. Johansson has the puck on the wall, instead of the goal line this time. Backstrom moves up from the corner to switch places, which draws a lot of defensive attention to that side of the ice. It also leaves the point WIDE open. Backstrom quickly gets the pass to Green at the point, who quickly moves it to Ovechkin for that open one timer. He misses. What's important to note, at least to me, is at this time there are two players right in front of the goalie. If Ovechkin hits the net and the rebound comes to the slot, there are two guys ready to bang it in. If he misses wide, Backstrom is already on the far wall waiting for the rim around. Even the movement from where Johansson and Backstrom started is impressive and worth noting. Johansson went from the top of the circle/wall area, to the goal line, to the front of the net. Backstrom went from the goal line, to the hash marks on the wall, to well above the circle on the wall. That's a lot of deliberate movement for 3 or 4seconds of hockey.

After the miss, Brouwer is able to get the loose puck behind the net and feed it to Backstrom, who is now at the bottom of the circle going toward the goal line. All four defenders are at the hash marks or below, leaving the point wide open again. Backstrom holds the puck for about 1 second before slipping a soft pass back to Green, he closes in like he's going to shoot to attract the defenders toward him and dishes the puck off to Ovechkin for the one timer. When the second one timer is released, there are two Capitals back in front of the net, with Backstrom very close to the goal line and wall in case it misses wide again.

Nobody on these powerplays is holding the puck for longer than a second or two after the passing sequence starts (when the set play is being run). It's a well oiled machine, very deliberate in their approach.

Now for us.



This one is ultimately successful, but I think it illustrates the differences between how the PP's are operating.

Tavares wins the draw back to the point. Boychuk slows up, looks briefly for a shot, passes to Hamonic. Hamonic looks briefly for a shot, passes to Tavares. Tavares holds for a second and swings it behind the net to Okposo (I think).

He looks out for an open lane and immediately passes back behind the net to Tavares. Tavares comes out from the corner a bit and tries a sneaky shot toward the front of the net.

When he lets this first shot go, Hamonic is raising his stick because he wants to rip a one-timer there. That bothers me. It bothers me because it likely means that Hamonic isn't sure where the puck is headed next. Maybe Tavares tried the slick shot on his own, I couldn't say for sure, but I know we see this type of thing a lot.

We miss the net, Boychuk retrieves and it gets worked back around the net to Lee who looks to Tavares. Tavares goes back to Hamonic, who goes to Boychuk, who goes back to Hamonic, who goes back to Tavares for the goal. The only time I see anything decisive or resembling a set play is when Hamonic is dead set on getting the puck to Tavares right before the goal. That's it. Every other time someone is handling the puck they survey the ice, look for a shot/pass, then defer to someone else. It's worth noting that this is a 5 on 3 PP! Maybe that's why they're less decisive, but I really don't think so. I think it's because they have loose systems and structures, not definitive plays. There's also no movement at all. The unit doesn't switch positions, they don't drastically alter their locations at all. The points stay at the point. Lee stays in front of the net/behind the net when he has to, Okposo stays on the goal line and on his side. Tavares stays on the right side, moving very little during the entire sequence.

There aren't many videos on youtube from the past season, so I can't really link anything else here to demonstrate it. Most are 4 on 3's in OT which don't really help us much.

I don't want to derail this thread much more, but I would be curious to here what you think of their Penalty Kill... with a name like PK Cronin? Why do you think their PK faired better at the end of the year? I couldn't tell if they made any structural adjustment or the players were just "doing it better." To me, it looked like they pressured more but maintained the same setup.

The PK is interesting. I wrote about their woes here http://alongtheboards.com/2015/03/greg-cronin-islanders-penalty-kill/, right as it was starting to turn the corner.

I think what happened with the PK is that Cronin used or uses an outdated system. It allows too much time for the opposition to create time and space, and ultimately allows them to run plays without any pressure on them. What I believed changed was the structure on the zone entries. The team became much more aggressive when the opposition tried to get the puck into the zone, and they really pushed the issue and it creates more chaos for the other team.

If the team was successful in getting the puck into the zone, we still saw the Czech Press, but it was still more aggressive than what we had seen earlier in the year. I do not believe we played the PK particularly well once the opposition was set up (even with being slightly more aggressive), even when our stats were trending upwards. I think that the puck retrieval was better on missed shots and not allowing teams back into the zone after clearing attempts is what helped our PK numbers at the end.

Many posters talked about how they thought we were using a a box formation near the end of the season. That's because of the aggressiveness of the PK. That top defender was chasing way outside what we traditionally saw earlier in the year, and ended up forming a box after he moved. That wasn't the base structure/strategy though, because any time the puck went to the point in the middle, we saw the patented 1-1-2 formation right down the middle, which you don't see in a box.

I've sufficiently derailed this thread now, so hooray!
 
Last edited:

TROLLCHUK

Registered User
Jul 1, 2006
5,065
46
I think you're being fair here. It's hard to know exactly what's happening without being at practices and being on the bench or in the locker room. It just appears like the plan is, get Tavares the puck. Try for one-timer at the point. If that fails, get Tavares the puck. Then there's that hesitation on what to do next.

It could very well be a poorly executed powerplay or a bad strategy that's trying to be implemented so the passing lanes don't open up properly.

Backstrom having Ovechkin is a huge advantage, no doubt. His demeanor with the puck never changes though, whether Ovechkin is being taken away or not. He knows with certainty where he wants the puck to go. Our PP looks like we're waiting to see where the puck should go.



In this brief video, we'll see Backstrom carry the puck toward the middle of the ice slowly. He starts coasting toward the point and sucks two defenders with him because if they don't, he's going to waltz into the slot and rip a shot. The moment those two defenders come out to him, he slips a pass down to the goal line, which is then passed to Brouwer for the goal in front. Phaneuf bites on the pass down to the goal line that allows Brouwer to get open. That's because the passing is accurate and decisive. The entire Capitals team knows where that puck is going once it gets moved down to the goal line like that. And if Phaneuf doesn't bite, the pass would likely go to the wall back to Backstrom (he's already in position to receive that pass when the goal is scored), and they'd set up another play.



On this one they're going to Ovechkin, as per usual. Johansson has the puck on the wall, instead of the goal line this time. Backstrom moves up from the corner to switch places, which draws a lot of defensive attention to that side of the ice. It also leaves the point WIDE open. Backstrom quickly gets the pass to Green at the point, who quickly moves it to Ovechkin for that open one timer. He misses. What's important to note, at least to me, is at this time there are two players right in front of the goalie. If Ovechkin hits the net and the rebound comes to the slot, there are two guys ready to bang it in. If he misses wide, Backstrom is already on the far wall waiting for the rim around. Even the movement from where Johansson and Backstrom started is impressive and worth noting. Johansson went from the top of the circle/wall area, to the goal line, to the front of the net. Backstrom went from the goal line, to the hash marks on the wall, to well above the circle on the wall. That's a lot of deliberate movement for 3 or 4seconds of hockey.

After the miss, Brouwer is able to get the loose puck behind the net and feed it to Backstrom, who is now at the bottom of the circle going toward the goal line. All four defenders are at the hash marks or below, leaving the point wide open again. Backstrom holds the puck for about 1 second before slipping a soft pass back to Green, he closes in like he's going to shoot to attract the defenders toward him and dishes the puck off to Ovechkin for the one timer. When the second one timer is released, there are two Capitals back in front of the net, with Backstrom very close to the goal line and wall in case it misses wide again.

Nobody on these powerplays is holding the puck for longer than a second or two after the passing sequence starts (when the set play is being run). It's a well oiled machine, very deliberate in their approach.

Now for us.



This one is ultimately successful, but I think it illustrates the differences between how the PP's are operating.

Tavares wins the draw back to the point. Boychuk slows up, looks briefly for a shot, passes to Hamonic. Hamonic looks briefly for a shot, passes to Tavares. Tavares holds for a second and swings it behind the net to Okposo (I think).

He looks out for an open late and immediately passes back behind the net to Tavares. Tavares comes out from the corner a bit and tries a sneaky shot toward the front of the net.

When he lets this first shot go, Hamonic is raising his stick because he wants to rip a one-timer there. That bothers me. It bothers me because it likely means that Hamonic isn't sure where the puck is headed next. Maybe Tavares tried the slick shot on his own, I couldn't say for sure, but I know we see this type of thing a lot.

We miss the net, Boychuk retrieves and it gets worked back around the net to Lee who looks to Tavares. Tavares goes back to Hamonic, who goes to Boychuk, who goes back to Hamonic, who goes back to Tavares for the goal. The only time I see anything decisive or resembling a set play is when Hamonic is dead set on getting the puck to Tavares right before the goal. That's it. Every other time someone is handling the puck they survey the ice, look for a shot/pass, then defer to someone else. It's worth noting that this is a 5 on 3 PP! Maybe that's why they're less decisive, but I really don't think so. I think it's because they have loose systems and structures, not definitive plays.

There aren't many videos on youtube from the past season, so I can't really link anything else here to demonstrate it. Most are 4 on 3's in OT which don't really help us much.



The PK is interesting. I wrote about their woes here http://alongtheboards.com/2015/03/greg-cronin-islanders-penalty-kill/, right as it was starting to turn the corner.

I think what happened with the PK is that Cronin used or uses an outdated system. It allows too much time for the opposition to create time and space, and ultimately allows them to run plays without any pressure on them. What I believed changed was the structure on the zone entries. The team became much more aggressive when the opposition tried to get the puck into the zone, and they really pushed the issue and it creates more chaos for the other team.

If the team was successful in getting the puck into the zone, we still saw the Czech Press, but it was still more aggressive than what we had seen earlier in the year. I do not believe we played the PK particularly well once the opposition was set up (even with being slightly more aggressive), even when our stats were trending upwards. I think that the puck retrieval was better on missed shots and not allowing teams back into the zone after clearing attempts is what helped our PK numbers at the end.

Many posters talked about how they thought we were using a a box formation near the end of the season. That's because of the aggressiveness of the PK. That top defender was chasing way outside what we traditionally saw earlier in the year, and ended up forming a box after he moved. That wasn't the base structure/strategy though, because any time the puck went to the point in the middle, we saw the patented 1-1-2 formation right down the middle, which you don't see in a box.

I've sufficiently derailed this thread now, so hooray!


So many words in this post. j/k

:laugh:
 

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