OEL tries on 80's equipment

[agent082]

Back in the day, I had Torspo.

 

[Seanaconda]

Oel had to grow up with wooden sticks . Synergies didn’t come out till well after he would have been playing hockey

 

[tarheelhockey]

That article is mostly nonsense. The only accurate part is about sticks for kids being much, much better, and the change in effort required for wrist shots. "Back in the day"....almost none of the kids could load/flex a wood stick. And the sticks were much heavier. So of course kids can shoot better now.

Wrist shots "back in the day" were taken differently, most of the time, because of the effort required to flex and load the wood stick. As mentioned, it was mostly back foot to front foot weight transfer if you wanted a hard wrist shot. Guys still shoot like that(see: Ovechkin). But even with wood sticks, there were guys that had already learned how to lean on them and take snappers/wristers off their front foot... Or push/pull snap shots. It was just more difficult.

I've played hockey for 30+ years. I used wood sticks. I used aluminum sticks. I now use composite sticks. My release is quicker and my wrist/snapshots slightly harder with composites. The great equalizer? Hyperbole. There are plenty of guys in the NHL that still don't have a very hard shot, or a very quick release, or an accurate shot, even with composite sticks... Shooting is no different than any other skill. Some guys are natural shooters, others struggle with it. Having an elite release and a top-tier wrist/snap shot, velocity wise....still takes God-given ability, great core/arm strength, and incessant practice....

Another big difference now is... the knowledge about what makes a great shooter is everywhere. Kids can go on YouTube and see how the elite shooters are firing the puck, and mimic them. How-to videos are EVERYWHERE. Now they have sticks that actually allow them to mimic them... So they can grow up being able to mimic pros most of their youth career, instead of only being able to do that once they are near full grown.

I coach kids, and really, it's awesome that I can lean on my stick to load it, and show them how power is generated, and they can actually do the same thing... When I was in that 8-12 year old range....I would have a better chance of breaking my wrist than flexing that wood stick how my former-pro coach was flexing it...

It is also worth mentioning, whatever gains have been made from composite sticks, have been offset by the size and weight of goalie equipment... Goalies are drastically quicker and more athletic now than they ever have been. Plus, the butterfly.

I respect your experience and knowledge as a coach, but understand that you're not really arguing with me here... you're arguing with Ken Hitchcock, Lindy Ruff, Zach Parise, Wendel Clark. It's kind of hard to write off the opinions of some of the most prominent figures in hockey history as "nonsense", particularly the guys who played and coached at the highest level before, during, and after the changeover from wood to composites. I think they might know a thing or two about this topic.

 

[TGWL]

The ankle support makes such a big difference. Would have loved to see how many terrible players back then would have been labeled a little differently, had they had equipment, mainly modern skates.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Oel had to grow up with wooden sticks . Synergies didn’t come out till well after he would have been playing hockey

OEL was born in 1991. By the time he was old enough for it to even matter what kind of stick he was using (circa 2000) there were a ton of non-wooden sticks on the market. The 90s were dominated by graphite and aluminum shafts.

Synergy was the first one-piece made of modern composite materials that you could pick up at the local shop, but there was a solid decade or more of transition from wood to Synergy.

 

[Seanaconda]

OEL was born in 1991. By the time he was old enough for it to even matter what kind of stick he was using (circa 2000) there were a ton of non-wooden sticks on the market. The 90s were dominated by graphite and aluminum shafts.

Synergy was the first one-piece made of modern composite materials that you could pick up at the local shop, but there was a solid decade or more of transition from wood to Synergy.

Could also just buy a whippy wood stick , I prefer old pads compared to the bulky battle armour they sell now. For sticks my favourite was whatever the yellow one was before I broke it. The response ?

 

[Pez68]

I respect your experience and knowledge as a coach, but understand that you're not really arguing with me here... you're arguing with Ken Hitchcock, Lindy Ruff, Zach Parise, Wendel Clark. It's kind of hard to write off the opinions of some of the most prominent figures in hockey history as "nonsense", particularly the guys who played and coached at the highest level before, during, and after the changeover from wood to composites. I think they might know a thing or two about this topic.

Except none of them, except Hitch, said anything close to composite sticks being "the great equalizer".

And I was mostly referring to this:

A booming shot can be bought. Composite sticks have taken a skill that once belonged only to the most feared shooters in the game and given it to the masses.

Which is utter nonsense.

 

[Seanaconda]

Except none of them, except Hitch, said anything close to composite sticks being "the great equalizer".

And I was mostly referring to this:

Which is utter nonsense.

It is easier to have a great wrist shot with a composite . Anyone that wants to have a hard slapshot gets a stick that is stiff anyways tho

 

[tarheelhockey]

Except none of them, except Hitch, said anything close to composite sticks being "the great equalizer".

But I mean... Hitch did say that. There are few people on planet Earth better qualified to make that evaluation than a guy who coached from the late 80s to the 2010s at the highest level.

And I was mostly referring to this:

Which is utter nonsense.

There's some hyperbole there as obviously you can't just pick up a stick and take a 100mph slapshot without talent or practice, but the article cites an NHL-commissioned study that shows composite sticks do indeed make it easier for the average player to have what would once have been considered an "elite" shot. And there are prominent NHL players and coaches quoted there backing up that assertion.

As @Seanaconda pointed out, stick selection is also a huge part of this. You're not going to have a booming slapshot with a 60 flex or great wrist shot torque with a 120. Even though, current new models are emerging which actually do kind of even out the flex issue by flexing differently in different parts of the shaft. So even that difference-maker is beginning to disappear.

 

[Seanaconda]

But I mean... Hitch did say that. There are few people on planet Earth better qualified to make that evaluation than a guy who coached from the late 80s to the 2010s at the highest level.



There's some hyperbole there as obviously you can't just pick up a stick and take a 100mph slapshot without talent or practice, but the article cites an NHL-commissioned study that shows composite sticks do indeed make it easier for the average player to have what would once have been considered an "elite" shot. And there are prominent NHL players and coaches quoted there backing up that assertion.

As @Seanaconda pointed out, stick selection is also a huge part of this. You're not going to have a booming slapshot with a 60 flex or great wrist shot torque with a 120. Even though, current new models are emerging which actually do kind of even out the flex issue by flexing differently in different parts of the shaft. So even that difference-maker is beginning to disappear.

At the same time I never had to learn how to shoot until I was old and my skates were broken . It’s why McDavid impresses me when he could have probably used my strategy of Ill just get a breakaway every shift. I didn’t even realize they were bad till my dad took mine instead of his I just thought I was getting old . But apparently they are completely ruined

 

[Bob Richards]

We are all very lucky that Al Iafrate did not have access to modern stick technology.

 

[Canovin]

Saw Larsson in the video. I wonder if he's doing his part in recruiting OEL to the Oiler

 

[Flukeshot]

I've always wanted to see current NHL stars play an exhibition game with old gear. It would probably look quite horrible. Of course a big part of that is that they aren't accustomed to that kind of equipment, but it makes you respect the old stars more.

I have often thought the same. Throw guys out there with the old pads and sticks and see how it goes.

I say the same for golf. See how far they can drive using a real wood head club.

 

[StupidGenius]

Saw Larsson in the video. I wonder if he's doing his part in recruiting OEL to the Oiler

As someone pointed out on our board, the pitch was probably "Liking the tournament? If you come to Edmonton, you can play in it every year".

 

[DaveG]

here come all the old 'back in my day' guys

And they're really not that wrong in some regards. Elite talent would stand out regardless of the generation. I don't think most people would question that depth players and goaltenders are far better today compared to where they were in the 80s and even early 90s. But there's no doubt that the change in equipment and (especially in the case of goaltending) tactical knowledge made this look far more pronounced.

 

[pbgoalie]

I remember the Alumni Heritage Classic between the Canadiens and the Oilers. Surprisingly, Larry Robinson really stood out and was blowing by everyone in that game. When asked why he stood out like this he replied that he bought the newest skate model and it had a dramatic effect on his skating since he retired.
Players don’t have more talent between generations. It takes tens of thousands of years for the tiniest of steps forward in terms of human evolution. However, equipment, and to a slightly lesser extent exercise make it appear like players have evolved. They haven’t-at all.

One Race, Every Medalist Ever

Must be the shoes

 

[Pez68]

But I mean... Hitch did say that. There are few people on planet Earth better qualified to make that evaluation than a guy who coached from the late 80s to the 2010s at the highest level.



There's some hyperbole there as obviously you can't just pick up a stick and take a 100mph slapshot without talent or practice, but the article cites an NHL-commissioned study that shows composite sticks do indeed make it easier for the average player to have what would once have been considered an "elite" shot. And there are prominent NHL players and coaches quoted there backing up that assertion.

As @Seanaconda pointed out, stick selection is also a huge part of this. You're not going to have a booming slapshot with a 60 flex or great wrist shot torque with a 120. Even though, current new models are emerging which actually do kind of even out the flex issue by flexing differently in different parts of the shaft. So even that difference-maker is beginning to disappear.

Yes, but that's the key there. What once would have been considered an elite shot. What once was considered an "elite" shot, is now just your average shot.... After all...goalies are the ultimate indicator of who has an elite shot and who doesn't. And guys are scoring LESS now.

So again, how are composite sticks the equalizer? Guys aren't scoring at insane levels just because they have composite sticks. Quite the opposite, actually.

 

[Garl]

One Race, Every Medalist Ever

Must be the shoes

There are sports, were the records stand from the 80's.
And yes, shoes matter actually. As matter the track surface on which they are running.

 

[Mbraunm]

One Race, Every Medalist Ever

Must be the shoes

Speaking of the shoes, are you also alluding to this documentary where Andre De Grasse (Olympic Bronze 100m sprinter (9.91s) lost to Jesse Owens when he used Owens’ shoes? De Grasse had a time of 11s using 1930s running shoes (Owens had a time of 10.3). So yes, you’re right - skates and equipment technology, along with changesn in coaching drive evolution in the game.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yes, but that's the key there. What once would have been considered an elite shot. What once was considered an "elite" shot, is now just your average shot.... After all...goalies are the ultimate indicator of who has an elite shot and who doesn't. And guys are scoring LESS now.

So again, how are composite sticks the equalizer? Guys aren't scoring at insane levels just because they have composite sticks. Quite the opposite, actually.

They absolutely would be scoring at insane levels if similar technology hadn’t balanced the scales for defenders (bulletproof shin pads, mandatory visors, lightweight sticks) and goaltenders (literally every single piece of equipment on their body).

The introduction of plastics and composite materials fundamentally changed the way the sport was played from 1980 to 2000. It wasn’t just sticks.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

Some players from this generation would have to retire if they had to play with older gear. Marian Hossa would come back from retirement though.

 

[Fantomas]

Next they should let an NHL goalie try out 80s goalie equipment. Would be absolutely hilarious to watch-especially with the absence padding to support the butterfly position...with 20 pounds of added water weight. lol

I was thinking this. Ben Bishop in Billy Smith's gear would be outrageous.

 

[puckpilot]

OEL's stick legs reminds me of how Elias Petterson looks in modern gear. Hahah.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Funny - the example that immediately popped into my head was Bobby Hull. The sheer power he had to unleash a 100mph bullet 50 years ago would be amplified to a scary degree with today's composites.

Or more likely, there would be diminishing returns and his shot wouldn't stand out as much.

It's funny how the HOH posters view the "true game of hockey" as the one played in the 80s and earlier.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Speaking of the shoes, are you also alluding to this documentary where Andre De Grasse (Olympic Bronze 100m sprinter (9.91s) lost to Jesse Owens when he used Owens’ shoes? De Grasse had a time of 11s using 1930s running shoes (Owens had a time of 10.3). So yes, you’re right - skates and equipment technology, along with changesn in coaching drive evolution in the game.

Owens recorded time was inaccurate and lower than the time it actually took him to finish the race.