October 25th CBA Deadline for 82 Game Season (CBA & Lockout Discussion) - Part XIV

[mouser]

Carry on

prior thread here:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1273929

Click to read more...

 

[Cawz]

From the last thread:

There's a couple things that have really bugged me about the players complaining about their contract being honoured.

I thought I've read on here/news sites, that the contracts are subject to whatever CBA is in place. How can the players be complaining about honouring contracts when they sign a contract that specifically states that the terms of the contract may change depending on the current CBA?

Also, what did they think was the point of those massive signing bonuses? They can't be so stupid that they think their signing bonuses were only supposed to protect them from a year of lost salary and not a potential rollback.

Exactly. Anyone who signed a contract, and especially those who just recently signed a new contract this offseason, knew full well that it was subject the whatever CBA is governing the league. And even if the player was actually clueless to this, their agent knew. So this "we want our contracts to be honoured" is bs. I wish more people would call the PA out on this. Its become their rallying cry, and is a total red herring.

Its like it was a PR move to connect with the common fan (since honoring a contract is easier for the common folk to relate to than millionaires complaining about "being able to make a living") and over time, the PA started to believe it. I guess its true that if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes true to you.

 

[haseoke39]

Players lose more money by missing a quarter of a season than they do by taking NHL's offer outright. They're crazy if they don't do something.

 

[guyincognito]

And who says the players are more unified?

The players that are in control, who are mostly at the top who could care less about the majority of the players?

Rhetoric and spin.

The whole situation is stupid. 2004 was a total game changer to the system, you could understand why what happened, happened. This time there is so much less on the table, even the PA's non-bizarre proposal you were looking at a 4% gap in HRR sharing between owners/players, and how to implement that.

It's just asinine. If this goes the same way as 2004-05 (and I mean the ending is set in stone at this point).... why would you be willing to lose that over what amounts to a 4% haircut off your own proposal?

Let's put it this way, no one in the US cares, the US is still their major market, and no
one WILL care until after the Super Bowl. It doesn't even really get media coverage.

Again, it's just stupid. I would say the PA is overplaying their hand, but I'm not even sure what their hand is. It's to the point that they're only doing damage to themselves. I'm sure there's 8-10 owners that want to play, it's costing them money. But there's also others that will have a better year by doing nothing and holding STH money.

 

[Gus Fring]

Players lose more money by missing a quarter of a season than they do by taking NHL's offer outright. They're crazy if they don't do something.

This is what I don't understand for the life of me, what if the league sticks to their guns on the 50/50 but throws the players a bone in other areas. free agency/olympics or whatever.

 

[TruGr1t]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a major disconnect forming between the rank and file NHLPA members and the guys fighting for their 'big-time contracts.' I dunno how you read the fight for the contracts as anything but guys with big deals arguing they should keep all that money at the expense of other players.

 

[Novacane]

Hopefully the nature of the conference call is more along the lines of "What do you all want to happen" vs. "Hunker down, sign overseas, this will be a long one". However, I'm not in the least bit optimistic about a season. Our only hope is if a group of players stand up tonight. Even then though, nothing would probably result.

 

[Riptide]

Because the system isn't broken: Franchises are (and I'll let you guess which ones).

Have you actually considered what happens to the rest of the league if they move the bottom 2 franchises? Lets say they move Phoenix (which should be moved) to Toronto or Southern Ontario, and moved another unnamed low revenue team to Quebec City (pick whomever you feel/want here).

Phoenix's revenue would go from 70m to 130m (at least). The one in Quebec City would easily top 100m - call it 110m - say they were at 85m before that.

Now league revenues just went up another 85m. Now what does that do to the cap? Now with the cap going up another few million, and those 2 new teams growing revenue disproportionally higher than the league average, the cap will just continue to rise faster and faster, and thus will make things even worse for the middle of the road clubs.

Yes Phoenix should be moved, but that doesn't really solve any major issues long term for the rest of the league. So while not opposed to it, it's NOT a real solution.

 

[I Believe]

Guess we'll see how much each side is willing to lose to send a message.

 

[Gus Fring]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a major disconnect forming between the rank and file NHLPA members and the guys fighting for their 'big-time contracts.' I dunno how you read the fight for the contracts as anything but guys with big deals arguing they should keep all that money at the expense of other players.

Didn't 200 or so players never play a single game again after the last lockout? How are the 3rd and 4th liners not being more vocal about moving things along?

 

[Hanklite*]

Principles over pragmatism is never good. The players choose principle and will pay for it. They will not win and are too stupid to realize it. You would think recent, 8 years, history would be a lesson but apparently not.

 

[General Fanager]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a major disconnect forming between the rank and file NHLPA members and the guys fighting for their 'big-time contracts.' I dunno how you read the fight for the contracts as anything but guys with big deals arguing they should keep all that money at the expense of other players.

You didnt really believe them when they said they were standing firm for the younger guys did you?

 

[Morris Wanchuk]

Players lose more money by missing a quarter of a season than they do by taking NHL's offer outright. They're crazy if they don't do something.

Exactly!

I ran the numbers yesterday and almost 3/4 of the league is only on 1 or 2 year deals. Lose 50% of the season and thats a 50-25% pay cut for 3/4 of the league.

Funny the poster boy for negotiating, Crosby, gets hurt less from cancelled games and more from a roll back.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a major disconnect forming between the rank and file NHLPA members and the guys fighting for their 'big-time contracts.' I dunno how you read the fight for the contracts as anything but guys with big deals arguing they should keep all that money at the expense of other players.

Exactly, and being that the majority of players can't get anything close to what they make in the NHL overseas like the big money players can, of course that's going to cause dissention among the ranks.

Put it to a vote, NHLPA.
Put it to a vote.

We ALL know the majority of the PA would accept the latest NHL offer, probably overwhelmingly, greater than 2/3rds.

Those in control of the PA will never allow it though.

Sucks to be the typical NHL player.

 

[meedle]

Well I'm more optimistic about the whole situation with all these player meetings thats going to happen.

Fehr always said it was up to the players.

 

[Iggy77]

Well I'm more optimistic about the whole situation with all these player meetings thats going to happen.

Fehr always said it was up to the players.

It's been up to the players all this time and little has been accomplished since the lockout started.

 

[Deebo]

Players lose more money by missing a quarter of a season than they do by taking NHL's offer outright. They're crazy if they don't do something.

I'm pretty sure the difference between proposal 2 by the NHLPA vs last Tuesday's offer from the NHL, over the life of the term offered, amounts to around 28% of what they would make in year 1 of the NHL's offer.

So with 5% annual growth, if they miss 23 games this season, the players lose money unless the deal they get provides them with more of the revenue their own proposal #2 gave them.

 

[powerstuck]

Have you actually considered what happens to the rest of the league if they move the bottom 2 franchises? Lets say they move Phoenix (which should be moved) to Toronto or Southern Ontario, and moved another unnamed low revenue team to Quebec City (pick whomever you feel/want here).

Phoenix's revenue would go from 70m to 130m (at least). The one in Quebec City would easily top 100m - call it 110m - say they were at 85m before that.

Now league revenues just went up another 85m. Now what does that do to the cap? Now with the cap going up another few million, and those 2 new teams growing revenue disproportionally higher than the league average, the cap will just continue to rise faster and faster, and thus will make things even worse for the middle of the road clubs.

Yes Phoenix should be moved, but that doesn't really solve any major issues long term for the rest of the league. So while not opposed to it, it's NOT a real solution.

Why not implement cap limits on other variables and now only revenues ?

Getting a solution for one thing doesn't means you can't change other things to prevent errors made in past to happen again.

Hell, keep Phoenix and all troubled franchises where they are. Then send Toronto down to New Mexico, send Montreal to Hawaii and Rangers to Glendale#2.

Then, what you just did is a service, NHL revenues will plummet by $500M in a single year and the cap will be down to $25M or did I get the way it works all wrong ?

 

[General Fanager]

Well I'm more optimistic about the whole situation with all these player meetings thats going to happen.

Fehr always said it was up to the players.

Yep, he said that, but I think we are all smart enough to know that he is pulling the strings here. I dont even know if anyone else could call for a vote for any proposal.....

 

[guyincognito]

Exactly, and being that the majority of players can't get anything close to what they make in the NHL overseas like the big money players can, of course that's going to cause dissention among the ranks.

Put it to a vote, NHLPA.
Put it to a vote.

We ALL know the majority of the PA would accept the latest NHL offer, probably overwhelmingly, greater than 2/3rds.

Those in control of the PA will never allow it though.

Sucks to be the typical NHL player.

Not going to happen at this stage, the reps would have to overthrow him for it to go to a vote.

They haven't lost anything yet, which is one of the problems with the NHL's offer, there's no real incentive because the goalposts were just pushed back. So basically if this caves in, you're in the same spot you'd be in 2 weeks ago, without the carrot.

 

[FakeKidPoker*]

@cotsonika

Apparently the NHL has backed off some of the HRR clarification requests, so there's a teeny, tiny bit of progress.
Retweeted by Greg Wyshynski

 

[TruGr1t]

@cotsonika

Apparently the NHL has backed off some of the HRR clarification requests, so there's a teeny, tiny bit of progress.
Retweeted by Greg Wyshynski

Is it me or has the NHLPA not really even mentioned HRR since this thing broke out. Well outside of misinterpreting the owners 50-50 offer.

 

[Gus Fring]

Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland

#NHLPA conference call tonight at 5:00 eastern...several clubs had individual team calls yesterday #NHL

Not sure if posted yet.

lol just saw this #rockoutwithyourlockout

 

[Ari91]

Principles over pragmatism is never good. The players choose principle and will pay for it. They will not win and are too stupid to realize it. You would think recent, 8 years, history would be a lesson but apparently not.

It's not principles over pragmatism, it's egos over pragmatism.

 

[metalfoot]

All I know is that I miss my Saturday night routine. The NHL/PA are both foolish to have let things get this far down the road, time-wise. May cooler heads prevail and a fehr deal get done.