Observations XXIV
- Thread starter FossilFndr
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FossilFndr
RIP Steve
Pred303
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predfan24
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- Jul 12, 2006
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A cup win would buy a few years of grace but this is still a baby bandwagon sports town. A decade of darkness could put the franchise back in jeopardy.
Anyways, it doesn't have to be one or another. We can win the cup and still maintain a competitive team year in and year out.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
Yup, just look at how Nissan Stadium was a 50/50 representation at best for a few years there. Went from being consistently sold out with one of the best home crowds in the league, to a favorite destination for visiting fans once the team stopped being competitive. If that can happen to the Titans it can easily happen to the Preds.
But i'd still take a rebuilding period in exchange for a Cup win.
NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
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that's any team really in the NHL outside of a few Canadian teams.
Preds fan base is strong compared to 80% of the league. Nashville's economy in the last 2-4 years has really helped push it up to the top too.
Nashville also benefits from being a draw for the opposition. This is something we didn’t have quite as strongly 10 years ago. So even if local interest drops down to what it was 10 years ago we will still be buffered on weekends, and potentially even thursdays, by opposing fans looking for a weekend getaway.
NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
- 13,238
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There's something bothering me greatly about this Predators team for a long time now. For the record, I can't skate. I have studied the game of hockey for many years, and blogged about it at one time. I've also coached youth basketball and flag football for nearly a decade as well, thinking about how to develop players in those sports and putting them into positions to succeed. All of those "experiences" lead me to instinctually want to put this "botherance" at the feet of the coaches. I would love the input of those who have played and those who have coached.
The "coach" in me wants to give a player the best chance at being successful. For the most part, that involves positioning them in the best place on the floor/ice/field to maximize their athletic abilities and provide them the most "options" in using their abilities. Loads of other aspects as well, but I want to focus on that last aspect- provide the most "options" in using their abilities. As it pertains to this post and hockey, I'm specifically talking about the shooting hand and position.
If one were to look at basic geometry only, a wing that shoots left has the most options when on the RIGHT side of the ice. Similarly, when a wing shoots right, they have the most options when on the LEFT side of the ice. That applies to defensemen as well.
By options, I'm specifically referring to this criteria:
• Having the best shooting angles on the net
• Maintaining those better shooting angles on net longer, even as you approach the net.
• Allows for shorter passes on a rush as the pass does not have to cross the entire body for a forehand shot (versus taking a less accurate backhand shot for the same passing distance)
• Allows the wing the option to cut to the center of the ice/slot on the forehand while not sacrificing shot angles (which actually improve with the cut), or speed in releasing the shot (as it can be a quick forehand wrist shot), or accuracy (which is maintained or improved by the position change since it remains a forehand shot).
Conversely, a RW that shoots right quickly runs out of shooting angle space, has to make an unnatural cut to center ice (with increased difficulty with it being initiated via the backhand), and has to settle for an inaccurate backhand shot if done quickly, or slow down to turn their body. They must also either settle for an inaccurate backhand shot on the rush or wait for the puck to travel across the body, allowing the goalie or defense to adjust to the pass across. Those wings also tend to shoot out high to avoid the shooting angle loss- a low percentage shot that's not even likely to produce a rebound. Or, those wings will have to skate all the way down below the goal line. When they do that, they aren't even capable of making a quick pass to the slot without going behind the net and coming out on the other side due to their body position.
Arvidsson and Smith epitomize that. Both take a lot of low percentage shots. Both skate the puck below the goal line and then frequently lose it because the defense can separate the puck from them before they can get to a position to make the best pass their body position allows. Arvidsson compensates by scoring a lot of goals on (cherry-pick) breakaways or partial breakaways that allow him to adjust his rush up the ice. Both also compensate just by having an incredible motor and working hard.
Granlund achieved his highest success as a goal scorer in Minnesota when he moved from C to RW. As he shoots L, that makes the most sense. In Nashville, he's almost exclusively been a LW- a position that is not natural and not one he played in Minnesota. He has struggled. That's not shocking to me.
The Nashville PP has similar problems. Johansen on the R, shooting R. Granlund on the L, shooting L. The PP looks slow because it is slow. Everybody passes the puck because they aren't in a great position to shoot. Many times those passes are weak backhand passes. Most of the players are also stopping the puck, and adjusting body position in order to make the pass or shot from their forehand. That's just brutal for a PP where the best way to maximize the advantage is to move the puck and shoot before the team on the kill can adjust.
The argument against this from a player perspective is frequently that they are "more comfortable" playing in the off position. While a player's comfort level needs to be taken into account, as a coach I've always wanted to know why they were comfortable playing a certain way. Was there something they didn't like doing (like cutting to the middle for a better shot in this case)? Can they be made to see/experience/understand the benefits of maximizing their options? I've always felt that people (in general) succeed more when they are pushed outside of their comfort zone. And that's where I come back to the coaching.
Granlund hasn't played meaningful minutes at LW until coming here. Smith and Arvidsson are both pretty predictable in how they play the game (stylistically) even though both have great motors. The PP is slow and inefficient (setting aside the issues bringing the puck into the zone or keeping face-off wins actually in the zone instead of going all the way back to Rinne).
Forsberg's goal last game was a great example of a LW shooting R making a hard cut across the ice while maintaining full control of the puck since it was on his forehand all the way through that cut. In many ways, this Predators team is much easier to defend and game plan due to those inefficiencies. Those inefficiencies force many of the players to work harder to achieve any success. As a coach, that's not a position I want my team to be in as it adds to the pressure that's already high in a competition.
The "coach" in me wants to give a player the best chance at being successful. For the most part, that involves positioning them in the best place on the floor/ice/field to maximize their athletic abilities and provide them the most "options" in using their abilities. Loads of other aspects as well, but I want to focus on that last aspect- provide the most "options" in using their abilities. As it pertains to this post and hockey, I'm specifically talking about the shooting hand and position.
If one were to look at basic geometry only, a wing that shoots left has the most options when on the RIGHT side of the ice. Similarly, when a wing shoots right, they have the most options when on the LEFT side of the ice. That applies to defensemen as well.
By options, I'm specifically referring to this criteria:
• Having the best shooting angles on the net
• Maintaining those better shooting angles on net longer, even as you approach the net.
• Allows for shorter passes on a rush as the pass does not have to cross the entire body for a forehand shot (versus taking a less accurate backhand shot for the same passing distance)
• Allows the wing the option to cut to the center of the ice/slot on the forehand while not sacrificing shot angles (which actually improve with the cut), or speed in releasing the shot (as it can be a quick forehand wrist shot), or accuracy (which is maintained or improved by the position change since it remains a forehand shot).
Conversely, a RW that shoots right quickly runs out of shooting angle space, has to make an unnatural cut to center ice (with increased difficulty with it being initiated via the backhand), and has to settle for an inaccurate backhand shot if done quickly, or slow down to turn their body. They must also either settle for an inaccurate backhand shot on the rush or wait for the puck to travel across the body, allowing the goalie or defense to adjust to the pass across. Those wings also tend to shoot out high to avoid the shooting angle loss- a low percentage shot that's not even likely to produce a rebound. Or, those wings will have to skate all the way down below the goal line. When they do that, they aren't even capable of making a quick pass to the slot without going behind the net and coming out on the other side due to their body position.
Arvidsson and Smith epitomize that. Both take a lot of low percentage shots. Both skate the puck below the goal line and then frequently lose it because the defense can separate the puck from them before they can get to a position to make the best pass their body position allows. Arvidsson compensates by scoring a lot of goals on (cherry-pick) breakaways or partial breakaways that allow him to adjust his rush up the ice. Both also compensate just by having an incredible motor and working hard.
Granlund achieved his highest success as a goal scorer in Minnesota when he moved from C to RW. As he shoots L, that makes the most sense. In Nashville, he's almost exclusively been a LW- a position that is not natural and not one he played in Minnesota. He has struggled. That's not shocking to me.
The Nashville PP has similar problems. Johansen on the R, shooting R. Granlund on the L, shooting L. The PP looks slow because it is slow. Everybody passes the puck because they aren't in a great position to shoot. Many times those passes are weak backhand passes. Most of the players are also stopping the puck, and adjusting body position in order to make the pass or shot from their forehand. That's just brutal for a PP where the best way to maximize the advantage is to move the puck and shoot before the team on the kill can adjust.
The argument against this from a player perspective is frequently that they are "more comfortable" playing in the off position. While a player's comfort level needs to be taken into account, as a coach I've always wanted to know why they were comfortable playing a certain way. Was there something they didn't like doing (like cutting to the middle for a better shot in this case)? Can they be made to see/experience/understand the benefits of maximizing their options? I've always felt that people (in general) succeed more when they are pushed outside of their comfort zone. And that's where I come back to the coaching.
Granlund hasn't played meaningful minutes at LW until coming here. Smith and Arvidsson are both pretty predictable in how they play the game (stylistically) even though both have great motors. The PP is slow and inefficient (setting aside the issues bringing the puck into the zone or keeping face-off wins actually in the zone instead of going all the way back to Rinne).
Forsberg's goal last game was a great example of a LW shooting R making a hard cut across the ice while maintaining full control of the puck since it was on his forehand all the way through that cut. In many ways, this Predators team is much easier to defend and game plan due to those inefficiencies. Those inefficiencies force many of the players to work harder to achieve any success. As a coach, that's not a position I want my team to be in as it adds to the pressure that's already high in a competition.
I understand that there's a ton of nuance I'm neglecting or minimizing with that essay above- particularly in those players being forced to catch passes on their backhand, or turning their body to catch on the forehand. A team that cycles heavily would be at more of a disadvantage having to frequently catch on the backhand.
My sense of this team, though, is that cycling the puck is not their best strategy- particularly the top two lines. They are at their best on the rush, cutting across the middle, or driving the slot to receive a quick pass from a wing that drove down below the goal line. Quick hitting offense based upon speed, puck handling forwards, and frequent/quick shots (ie, a Laviolette offense) would seem much more adept with a R-shooting LW and a L-shooting RW 5-on-5. And the PP is being significantly hindered with inefficiencies.
My sense of this team, though, is that cycling the puck is not their best strategy- particularly the top two lines. They are at their best on the rush, cutting across the middle, or driving the slot to receive a quick pass from a wing that drove down below the goal line. Quick hitting offense based upon speed, puck handling forwards, and frequent/quick shots (ie, a Laviolette offense) would seem much more adept with a R-shooting LW and a L-shooting RW 5-on-5. And the PP is being significantly hindered with inefficiencies.
Preds Partisan
Gunga galunga
- Aug 17, 2009
- 3,322
- 900
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Don't know about anyone else, but I am thrilled about the 2:00 start. Really helps out us out of towners.........
TitansVolsPreds615
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- Feb 19, 2015
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Pred303
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NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
- 13,238
- 4,961
Hate the 2 pm start on Saturday. Just screws the whole day up.
Pred303
Registered User
oh cool, i thought it was another 8:30. would have missed the first period. lol. which might or not have been a bad thing. lol
Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
Who would've thought that Rocco Fricking Grimaldi is the best forward in an offense that contains Ryan Johansen, Filip Forsberg, Mikael Granlund, Kyle Turris, Wayne Simmonds and Viktor Arvidsson?
Feeling like our big boys need to step up to the plate tonight, Dallas has loaded up their top line and they're going heavy for favorable matchups. Our top-6 needs to take an advantage.
Feeling like our big boys need to step up to the plate tonight, Dallas has loaded up their top line and they're going heavy for favorable matchups. Our top-6 needs to take an advantage.
That's a great post but I think this is way too intricate of a conversation to have on a message board.
- Aug 13, 2007
- 35,470
- 15,736
I'm a little bored waiting for the game so I'll compare and contrast Forsberg and Arvidsson and try to put some things in perspective from my point of view. Let me add that conventional theory is/was that being on your strong side meant you always had your forehand facing the center of the ice to make and receive passes as well as taking a standard wrist shot. This is why the center position was a specialized player that could control the puck forehand and backhand.2 minutes for coaching snobbery!!
For me the biggest difference for them is their size and how they attack the defense both right handed shooters one playing left and the other playing right.
- Forsberg likes to have his stick to the inside of the ice because of his puck handling skills and loves to shoot off of the "wrong" foot.
- His silky mitts don't have a chance to work if he can't dangle the puck in front of the d-man he is attacking then turn them inside out.
- Notice when he goes behind the net he's always trying to pick the puck up if the goalie isn't moving fast enough? This is because a backhanded wrap around is very difficult.
- With his size he can pull off a move cutting toward the net on his backhand and maintain possession because he can use his right leg as a shield and keep two hands on his stick. Like he did on his goal Monday.
- You can see the "wrong" foot shooting propensity on the power play because even though he is on his strong side he doesn't use a normal wrist shot very often.
- Arvidsson likes to use his speed to enter the zone and blow by people and take those slappers that amazingly beat a goalie from the top of the circle out by the boards.
- Though he can turn d-men inside out when attacking on the left side of the ice fancy puck skills and power moves aren't his game.
- If he can't get a shot off down the wing he loves to go behind the net for the wrap around.
- Because of his size he needs to use a different technique to protect the puck. When he is pressured coming down the wing he drops his top hand off his stick to keep the defender away from the puck. This allows him to control the puck with his bottom hand while still on the forehand of his stick so the curve helps hold the puck.
- He likes to shoot off the "right" foot so on the right side he is able to shoot in stride giving the goalie less indication he is about to shoot.
These are just some quick notes off the top of my head. There are probably many more that we could notice if watching a game and breaking down the little things that happen.
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