Obscure hockey facts/stats (Part 2)

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

After leading the league with a 38.3 GSAA in 48 games as a 19-year old rookie, Hall of Famer Grant Fuhr would go on to post a GSAA of -69.8 over the final 820 games of his career

For comparison's sake, Sean Burke had a GSAA of 74.4 in 820 career games

IIRC gsaa is comparing against league average save percentage, which is only meaningful when all goaltenders in a season face the same shot quality.

If you watch an oilers game followed by a capitals game from 1983-84, Pat Riggin and Grant Fuhr are clearly not facing the same workload through 20 shots.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Sid Crosby has more career goal at even strength than Mario Lemieux (407 vs 405)

 

[Crosby2010]

Patrice Bergeron scored 427 goals in his career. A record 6 Selkes (sorry Bob Gainey) that likely won't be broken is how we think of him. But 427 goals! Wow. It just sort of hits you that he scored that many. Never surpassing 32. More than Steve Shutt, Bill Barber, Marian Gaborik, Phil Kessel, Rod Gilbert, John Leclair and Corey Perry (at the moment)

 

[Crosby2010]

Dave Burrows finished 10th in Hart voting in 1976. I thought it might be a glitch but he got 5 Hart votes. I have no idea why, he had 29 points that year. He was a stay at home d-man and he didn't even get a Norris vote that year. Not to mention Ron Stackhouse another Penguins defenseman on his team had 71 points. And Syl Apps Jr. had 99 points, Jean Pronovost had 104 and Pierre Larouche had 111. All on the Penguins. Led the team in plus minus with +26 if that counts, but this is one of the strangest players ever to be voted for the Hart I think.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

An update to my post from November:

Player	Position	Games	ES PRIM	Per game
Wayne Gretzky	C	1,487​	1,454	0.98​
Gordie Howe	R	1,767​	1,052	0.60​
Jaromir Jagr	R	1,733​	1,015	0.59​
Mark Messier	C	1,756​	922	0.53​
Marcel Dionne	C	1,348​	899	0.67​
Steve Yzerman	C	1,514​	860	0.57​
Ron Francis	C	1,731​	815	0.47​
Phil Esposito	C	1,282​	802	0.63​
Alex Ovechkin	L	1,396​	801	0.57​
Sidney Crosby	C	1,241​	801	0.65​

Ovechkin and Crosby are now the 9th and 10th players in NHL history to reach 800 primary points at ES. Ovechkin got there on February 10th, and Crosby got there on February 15th. Presumably both of them will pass Phil Esposito (currently in 8th) within the next few games.

Based on @seventieslord's high-level adjustment for the scoring environment (which looked reasonable to me), the two of them are already in 4th and 5th place all-time.

For context - McDavid is already up to 477 ES PRIM in 617 games (0.77/gp). Obviously that's not an apples-to-apples comparison, as his scoring environment is higher than Ovechkin and Crosby's, and he hasn't entered the declining phase of his career yet. But he could end up ranking very high on this list.

 

[The Panther]

Some Scoring Leaders stats from 1992-93 and 1993-94 (84 game seasons) divided into halves. (I'm only about 97% sure these are totally correct — as you know, it's difficult to calculate when all the teams have different schedules, but I tried my best!):

1992-93 first half (up to 42 GP):
104 - Lemieux
81 - Lafontaine
70 - Recchi
69 - Oates
66 - Mogilny
63 - Bure
63 - Stevens
63 - Gilmour
62 - Turgeon
61 - Sundin
60 - Selanne
60 - Sakic

1992-93 second half (up to 42 GP):
79 - Yzerman
76 - Oates
72 - Selanne
70 - Turgeon
67 - Lafontaine
66 - Robitaille
64 - Gilmour
61 - Mogilny
59 - Gretzky
57 - Shanahan
57 - Cassels
56 - Lemieux

NOTES:
-- Gilmour very consistent scoring in 1992-93
-- What happened to Bure in the second half? He trailed off badly.
-- First-half must be the most productive half-season of Sundin's career (he was still in Quebec).
-- In the second half, Yzerman was back to his 1988-89 level of scoring! Likewise, Oates was back to that peak 1990-91 level.
-- We can see how Lafontaine cooled off a bit in the second half (still great, though). In retrospect, it's really the latter half of 1991-92 and the first half of 1992-93 that was Lafontaine's absolute NHL peak.
-- Shanahan and... er, Cassels (?) in the second half.
-- Mario just makes the top-12 in the second half while playing 20 games!

1993-94 first half (up to 42 GP):
75 - Gretzky
70 - Fedorov
56 - Recchi
55 - Oates
53 - Modano
53 - Jagr
53 - Sakic
52 - Hull
52 - Robitaille
51 - Andreychuk
51 - Zhamnov
51 - Gilmour
51 - Roenick
51 - Janney

1993-94 second half (up to 42 GP):
65 - Bure
62 - Lindros
60 - GIlmour
58 - Yzerman
57 - Oates
56 - Brind'Amour
56 - Roenick
55 - Gretzky
54 - Reichel
53 - Damphousse
52 - Shanahan
51 - Zubov

NOTES:
-- It's odd how both Gretzky and Fedorov trailed off a lot, offensively, in the latter half. Fedorov with 50 points in the second half, matched by Ray Sheppard (both outscored by Yzerman).
-- Latter half is surely the most productive half-season of Bure's career...?
-- Lindros and Brind-Amour's huge totals show how Philly arrived in the latter half of this season.
-- Second half must be Robert Reichel's biggest NHL moment?

 

[Davenport]

Kim Clackson spent one season with the Quebec Nordiques - 1980-81, the rookie season of Peter and Anton Stastny. He picked up 5 points - all assists - in 61 regular season games. Three of those points came Feb 20, 1981, at the Pacific Coliseum. The Nordiques trounced the Vancouver Canucks 9-3. He assisted on two of Peter's three goals, and one of Anton's three goals.

The Stastny brothers amped up Jamie Hislop's offensive production enough that Quebec could get Dan Bouchard for him from Calgary. Had Clackson spent more time on the ice with Peter and Anton, what might the Nordiques have gotten for him?

Besides Kim Clackson, Quebec had Andre Dupont and John Wensink on the 1980-81 edition of the team. Emile Francis' Rangers could have used muscle of that caliber a decade earlier.

 

[Neutrinos]

Statistically, Patrick Roy wasn't the best goalie of the '93 playoffs...

Roy
.929 SV%, 21.4 GSAA and a GA% of 68 in his 20 playoff games

Joseph
.938 SV%, 18.7 GSAA and a GA% of just 59 in 11 playoff games

 

[The Panther]

The biggest points-per-game season of Stan Mikita's career was well into the 1970s, and was the first season without Bobby Hull -- 1972-73.

Mikita scored 1.46 points per game, third-best in the NHL behind only Espo and Orr. But he appeared in only 57 games (scoring 83 points).

 

[FerrisRox]

Statistically, Patrick Roy wasn't the best goalie of the '93 playoffs...

Roy
.929 SV%, 21.4 GSAA and a GA% of 68 in his 20 playoff games

Joseph
.938 SV%, 18.7 GSAA and a GA% of just 59 in 11 playoff games

Sure if you want to pretend that Wins aren't an important stat for a goaltender.

 

[Neutrinos]

Sure if you want to pretend that Wins aren't an important stat for a goaltender.

Wins are a team stat

 

[FerrisRox]

Wins are a team stat

I assure you, under goaltending stats, you will find 'wins' and anybody who prefers any goalie other than the one who has 16 wins in the playoffs is missing the point.

 

[Davenport]

Henri Richard was something more than someone fortunate enough to have played for the Montreal Canadiens at time when they were winning a lot of Stanley Cups. Seven times he finished in the Top-Ten in points, and similarly finished in the Top-Ten in assists seven times. Twice he led the NHL in assists. Twice he finished in the Top-Ten in goals scored.

Richard's production with the Montreal Junior Canadiens - 56 goals and 109 points in 54 games in 1953-54, and 33 goals and 66 points in 44 games in 19 54-55 - was an indication of his offensive prowess. In the NHL, some of that prowess was sacrificed to become effective with and without the puck.

 

[MS]

Patrick Roy had 19 of 20 games over .900 in the 1993 playoffs and never allowed more than 3 goals.

Joseph did his usual playoff routine of starting out like a house on fire and then dropped an .828 and an .833 as St. Louis were eliminated.

Best underdog 1st round goalie in history, mediocre after that.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

That's one of the inherent limitations of save percentage. (To be clear, in general, I think it has a fair amount of informational value - but this is a good example of its limitations).

In game 7 against Toronto, Joseph allowed 4 goals in the first period (included a back-breaking goal with 20 seconds left). I'd have to go back and watch the highlights, but from what I recall, Joseph didn't look great. The Blues were demoralized, and the rest of the game was lifeless (Toronto scored two more goals in the second).

It's true that Joseph's save percentage took a hit because of this game, but it doesn't capture the timing of the goals. Regardless of what else a goalie did, allowing four goals in the first period of a game 7 is essentially a series-ending performance.

Roy's save percentage was a bit lower (but still very high for the era). There's some evidence that Roy lightened up in games that were out of reach. (For example, on May 24th, he allowed two goals after the Habs were already up 5-0 late in the second period. Or on May 16th, he lost his shutout with just over a minute remaining, with Montreal sitting on a 4-0 lead). And, as we all know, this was the year that Roy helped his team win 10 consecutive overtime games.

In 1993, the Habs were a better team than the Blues, and we can't give the goalies sole responsibility for the outcomes. But looking just at an averaging statistic (save percentage) misses the point. Joseph had his worst game of the playoffs at the worst possible time, and Roy stepped up when it mattered, and took his foot off the breaks when it didn't. That's important context, and save percentage doesn't tell us anything about that.

 

[The Panther]

Here's a good one:

Couple days ago, Oilers beat the Stars 4-3 in overtime. At the moment, McDavid, Draisaitl, and Corey Perry are on a line. One of the Oilers' goals involved all three with points.

It was the first time three ex-Hart trophy winners combined on a goal since 1947. (I don't know who did it then, but I'm guessing Lach, Blake, Richard?)

 

[overpass]

In 2003-04, the Tampa Bay Lightning won the Stanley Cup. Martin St. Louis lifted the Cup, and was later awarded the Hart trophy for that season.

In the 18 seasons since, not only has no Hart trophy winner won the Stanley Cup in the same season, they haven't even won two playoff rounds. No Hart trophy winner has played in the conference finals since St. Louis in 2004.

 

[FerrisRox]

Here's a good one:

Couple days ago, Oilers beat the Stars 4-3 in overtime. At the moment, McDavid, Draisaitl, and Corey Perry are on a line. One of the Oilers' goals involved all three with points.

It was the first time three ex-Hart trophy winners combined on a goal since 1947. (I don't know who did it then, but I'm guessing Lach, Blake, Richard?)

That is very cool!

 

[Davenport]

My discovery today is great example of the sort of facts and figures you can find perusing box scores. While checking the box scores for the Pittsburgh Penguins' inaugural season - 1967-68 - I discovered that the St. Louis Blues had two sets of brothers. Bob and Barclay Plager,* and Roger and Noel Picard. Never knew Noel had a brother who played in the NHL, and with him in St. Louis, no less. Roger - a right winger - was/is three years older than Noel, and he played 15 games in the NHL - all of them in 1967-68 with the Blues. (* brother Bill joined them in 1968-69)

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

Statistics from Penguins PR department:
Jaromir Jagr has skated with or against 3,287 of the 8,510 players that have appeared in at least one regular-season or playoff game with an NHL team, equating to 38.6% of all players in league history.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Here's a good one:

Couple days ago, Oilers beat the Stars 4-3 in overtime. At the moment, McDavid, Draisaitl, and Corey Perry are on a line. One of the Oilers' goals involved all three with points.

It was the first time three ex-Hart trophy winners combined on a goal since 1947. (I don't know who did it then, but I'm guessing Lach, Blake, Richard?)

This is a great one! Are there more recent examples of three past or future Hart winners contributing to the same goal? Something along the lines of Gretz-Hull-Pronger linking up in 96, even though Pronger hadn't yet won the Hart. (Note: I just checked, and those three didn't link up on a goal in 96)

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

This is a great one! Are there more recent examples of three past or future Hart winners contributing to the same goal? Something along the lines of Gretz-Hull-Pronger linking up in 96, even though Pronger hadn't yet won the Hart. (Note: I just checked, and those three didn't link up on a goal in 96)

Courtesy of Montreal award voters, not this one:

Kidding, but this would have made the original criteria had voters not ever so slightly favored Theodore over Iginla in 2002.

To answer your question though, Leon Draisaitl scored a goal assisted by Taylor Hall and Connor McDavid April 6th 2016, all future Hart winners.

Edit: For another close one akin to Iginla, Ray Bourque shared a bunch of points with Forsberg and Sakic in Colorado, and had lost probably the closest Hart race in history in 1990, with another runner-up finish to Gretzky in 1987.

 

[Crosby2010]

An old and beaten down and battered Steve Yzerman in 2006, bad knees and all, who was all but finished in the NHL and managed only 34 points that year actually had an 11 game point streak, better than anything he did in the 1990 or 1991 season. Then he went scoreless the last couple of games of the season, went out in the 1st round and retired.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

While researching past and future Hart winners combining for a point, I was surprised to find that out of Bryan Trottier’s 86 points scored over three seasons in Pittsburgh (regular season and playoffs combined), he had zero of them shared with Mario Lemieux. Lemieux missed lots of time but still scored 298 points during those same years.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Courtesy of Montreal award voters, not this one:

Kidding, but this would have made the original criteria had voters not ever so slightly favored Theodore over Iginla in 2002.

To answer your question though, Leon Draisaitl scored a goal assisted by Taylor Hall and Connor McDavid April 6th 2016, all future Hart winners.

Edit: For another close one akin to Iginla, Ray Bourque shared a bunch of points with Forsberg and Sakic in Colorado, and had lost probably the closest Hart race in history in 1990, with another runner-up finish to Gretzky in 1987.

Great finds! I was also looking to see if Trottier ever scored along with Mario and Jagr in his short stint in PIT, even though he obviously didn't play a lot with those two. He has a handful of goals along with Jagr, but literally zero with Mario which I found pretty interesting.

While researching past and future Hart winners combining for a point, I was surprised to find that out of Bryan Trottier’s 86 points scored over three seasons in Pittsburgh (regular season and playoffs combined), he had zero of them shared with Mario Lemieux. Lemieux missed lots of time but still scored 298 points during those same years.

Hah! Independently I looked into the same thing and had the exact same reaction!