Speculation: NYR Roster Building Thread Part XL

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If this is true, from Poille, someone must have tampered and convinced Vesey that they'd be a priority.

I'm sure there were some GMs at DCU for his last game. Gorton was there. I'm sure there were others.

Time to play Clue-NHL edition c

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

In a package for Nash, you might get one of a player like Honka or Nichushkin, but not both.

If Nash gets traded, some money will be retained, and the Rangers will get back a middle six forward with some room to grow, a B prospect or bottom six/bottom pairing defenseman, and a mid round draft pick.

The most likely return for Nash would most likely be the return that someone like, well, Marian Gaborik did when the Rangers traded him.

Some packages:

ANA: Silfverberg, Stoner, 3rd rounder
DAL: Nichushkin, 3rd rounder
STL: Shattenkirk straight up or Rattie, Jaskin, 3rd
MIN: Zucker, Haula, 3rd
DET: Nyqvist, Pulkinnen (I saw this proposed a week ago and really like it for both teams)

Just some ideas, but I wouldn't expect a good young player AND a blue chip prospect. One or the other only.

The Detroit trade is a very interesting scenario, and probably makes the most sense for both teams.

Anaheim is a budget team, and don't want another high priced forward. Dallas has a lot of fire power as it is, and a lot of money would have to be coming back. Blues have enough wingers, so I don't see them moving Shattenkirk for anyone but a center. And the Wild deal is similar to the Blues, they are looking for a center.

If that Detriot trade was real, and there was like a 4th or 5th round pick thrown in, I'd take that and not think twice.

 

[TheTakedown]

Yep. We're playing Hayes to show FAs that they'll get every chance to succeed, but then we're going to kick Staal and G off of their NMCs, showing FAs that security isn't what they think it is in Rangerstown.

new GM, new changes. **** happens.

Beyond that, Staal and Girardi are clearly not earning their contracts here.

 

[silverfish]

new GM, new changes. **** happens.

Beyond that, Staal and Girardi are clearly not earning their contracts here.

Seriously. You can't have it every way you want it.

Are you showing FAs that you'll get a bunch of chances and have security, or are you showing FAs that NMCs are worthless?

Adam Banks to the max.

 

[Tawnos]

Yikes. That's a real ugly situation if true. Vesey really screwed the Preds hard.

How much in time and resources could a team possibly be spending on their own college draft pick?

 

[TheTakedown]

Seriously. You can't have it every way you want it.

Are you showing FAs that you'll get a bunch of chances and have security, or are you showing FAs that NMCs are worthless?

Adam Banks to the max.

No, but what did Hextall do when he became GM? He started shipping guys out. He made them upset, angry, and eventually he MOVED them.

This **** happens. I was once fired from a pizzeria because the owner that originally hired me had sold it, and the new owner didn't like me after 2 weeks of working with me, and then fired me.

Trivial comparison, but it's the same principle. New GM, new changes. It doesn't mean the clauses aren't honored--it simply means the new man in charge has a different plan with different ideas and requirements.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

He's got connections within the Rangers so although it hasn't been said publicly I would imagine they are the front runners to grab him.

I also like him a lot because he's right handed, and is a shoot first guy, which is something this team could use.

You're starting to get me on the "sign Oksanen" train.

 

[silverfish]

No, but what did Hextall do when he became GM? He started shipping guys out. He made them upset, angry, and eventually he MOVED them.

This **** happens. I was once fired from a pizzeria because the owner that originally hired me had sold it, and the new owner didn't like me after 2 weeks of working with me, and then fired me.

Trivial comparison, but it's the same principle. New GM, new changes. It doesn't mean the clauses aren't honored--it simply means the new man in charge has a different plan with different ideas and requirements.

How many of those guys that Hextall shipped out had full NMCs?

How many players on full NMCs have been forced out by their team; not willingly waived. So, no, MSL does not count. Hartnell is a maybe candidate, book is out there. Bryan McCabe, yes. Michael Nylander, yes. Who else?

This isn't a thing that happens often enough to bank on it happening for NYR. You can speculate and speculate and speculate, but until it happens, it's a false reality as the precedent really isn't there.

And, if you are going to speculate, don't say **** like "we are showing potential FAs that they'll have security on this team" and then turn around five posts later and say that Staal and Girardi are going to be traded.

It's the same thing where people call AV an idiot because he does something you disagree with, and then laud him as a genius when he does something you agree with.

Cake. Eater. Lifestyle.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2003779&highlight=

 

[Mac n Gs]

Oksanen shoots lefty.

 

[TheTakedown]

How many of those guys that Hextall shipped out had full NMCs?

How many players on full NMCs have been forced out by their team; not willingly waived. So, no, MSL does not count. Hartnell is a maybe candidate, book is out there. Bryan McCabe, yes. Michael Nylander, yes. Who else?

This isn't a thing that happens often enough to bank on it happening for NYR. You can speculate and speculate and speculate, but until it happens, it's a false reality as the precedent really isn't there.

And, if you are going to speculate, don't say **** like "we are showing potential FAs that they'll have security on this team" and then turn around five posts later and say that Staal and Girardi are going to be traded.

It's the same thing where people call AV an idiot because he does something you disagree with, and then laud him as a genius when he does something you agree with.

Cake. Eater. Lifestyle.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2003779&highlight=

Did you not see the Hartnell article?

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/scott-hartnell-wanted-go-where-he-was-wanted

Scott Hartnell agreed to waive his no-movement clause and go to the Columbus Blue Jackets, willingly.

The former Flyer left wing said Monday evening that he was both “shocked and upset” when Flyers general manager Ron Hextall approached him five days ago about a trade and waiving his no-movement clause and needed time to digest things.

“I loved my time there [in Philadelphia],” Hartnell said. “But sometimes it’s time to move on and try something new. ... It was pretty clear that the team that wants you is a better place than the team that doesn’t want you. I’m pretty excited about that.”

Hartnell said that Hextall told him Columbus was the main focus of where the Flyers wanted to deal him, although other clubs inquired too.

“He decided it was best for me to move on from the Flyers,” Hartnell said. “To be honest, I was pretty shocked at first. I was upset and a little angry. I took a few days to look at the situation. It was hard.

“It was not easy. A lot of emotions. At the end of the day, I decided that Columbus is an up-and-coming team. They have young, great players. It was the right decision for me to go to a team that was very excited to have me.”

It's not a surprise that the guys are going to be upset, but Hartnell says it best. The team that wants you is better than the team that doesn't want you.

Some guys might waive their NMC only for the teams they choose. In reality, that is what the NMC ultimately controls--not only whether you are traded, but on a very specific note, WHERE you are traded if you do waive. Limited NTC's don't do that. The only real "preventative" that an NMC provides is that the player can't be demoted to the NHL without their permission

 

[Mikos87]

Marc Staal will have to be moved. No two ways around it.

If we let Eric Staal go, trade Marc Staal to the same team as him.

Brass and Zuccarello have put up the points this season but they were not very good together at even strength. Their games have slipped in their own zone. Brooks had a crazy stat about Brassard not assisting on an even strength Zuccarello goal since November 12. Brassard has the weird home and away splits. He handles the puck like a hot potato in his own zone.

With Brass its a match up issue... AV has last change at home and favorable matchups.

I said this during the 2014 year when the Pouliot-Brass-Zucc line was doing really well. They were absolutely molesting 3rd line and pair competition.

Brassard doesn't perform well when he's up against top 6 level forwards and top 4 d... but put him out there against lesser competition he'll dissect them.

That's why his home and road splits are the way they are.

Last year you had Nash en fuego for a while so it didn't show until the second half.

Still Brass is the team's most potent catalyst this year... even though its a byproduct of dare I say it... really good coaching.

 

[silverfish]

Did you not see the Hartnell article?

Okay... Three times in the history of all NMCs has a player been forced out by the team.

Enough to draw precedent from considering the amount of NMCs that have been handed out? I'm not comfortable doing that. Apparently, I'm in the minority there.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Oksanen shoots lefty.

I just looked it up and you are right. Very strange, a few of the Rangers personalities I follow said a while back he shot right so I never looked it up.

 

[TheTakedown]

Okay... Three times in the history of all NMCs has a player been forced out by the team.

Enough to draw precedent from considering the amount of NMCs that have been handed out? I'm not comfortable doing that. Apparently, I'm in the minority there.

and yet the flyers narrative when they sent Hartnell away was similar to the Rangers--a team that was previously a contender, but was falling as a team. they were left saddled with many long term, high cost, and low-productive contracts that did nothing to help the players compete, the team play the game it was supposed to, and therefore resulted in a bad environment

 

[silverfish]

and yet the flyers narrative when they sent Hartnell away was similar to the Rangers--a team that was previously a contender, but was falling as a team. they were left saddled with many long term, high cost, and low-productive contracts that did nothing to help the players compete, the team play the game it was supposed to, and therefore resulted in a bad environment

Is it necessary to point out again that drawing conclusions from one event whilst ignoring all the other ones that don't fit your narrative is dangerous?

I'm not saying that the Rangers can't get rid of Staal and Girardi this off-season. What I am saying is that it is unprecedented, and it is bad business. Bad business because of the initial point of this conversation, that it sends a poor message to potential FAs signing in NY.

If they are going to take two guys they've homegrown, who for all intents and purposes earned their contracts and the NMCs that were involved in them... if they are going to take those two guys and throw them away, what does that say to the guy on the UFA market when he asks the Rangers for an NMC to be part of his deal? Can he surely believe they'll honor that?

I understand that this is HFNYR. That the moves here people speculate on have one thought in mind, to benefit the Rangers to their liking. That isn't how this business works.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I really don't think the FA factor is that big of an issue. I don't think players around the league are blind to the fact that players get worse, teams want to make changes and it's not going to stop people from signing long term deals when they will have full control of where they go. And sure there's not a lot of examples but how many players have actually been asked to waive a NMC?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Is it necessary to point out again that drawing conclusions from one event whilst ignoring all the other ones that don't fit your narrative is dangerous?

I'm not saying that the Rangers can't get rid of Staal and Girardi this off-season. What I am saying is that it is unprecedented, and it is bad business. Bad business because of the initial point of this conversation, that it sends a poor message to potential FAs signing in NY.

If they are going to take two guys they've homegrown, who for all intents and purposes earned their contracts and the NMCs that were involved in them... if they are going to take those two guys and throw them away, what does that say to the guy on the UFA market when he asks the Rangers for an NMC to be part of his deal? Can he surely believe they'll honor that?

I understand that this is HFNYR. That the moves here people speculate on have one thought in mind, to benefit the Rangers to their liking. That isn't how this business works.

Bingo to both items in bold. It is absolutely bad business.

 

[Tawnos]

Okay... Three times in the history of all NMCs has a player been forced out by the team.

Enough to draw precedent from considering the amount of NMCs that have been handed out? I'm not comfortable doing that. Apparently, I'm in the minority there.

You're asking the wrong question. The right question is: how many times in the history of NMCs has a team asked a player to waive, and of those times, how many times have they waived?

I'm betting that the percentage is pretty high. The problem is that there's just no way for us to know.

Hartnells logic there is how I suspect it would go for most players once the GM asks a player to waive.

 

[silverfish]

You're asking the wrong question. The right question is: how many times in the history of NMCs has a team asked a player to waive, and of those times, how many times have they waived?

I'm betting that the percentage is pretty high. The problem is that there's just no way for us to know.

Hartnells logic there is how I suspect it would go for most players once the GM asks a player to waive.

Actually, I'd say the safer bet is that it's probably pretty low. This considering it's only happened three times that anyone can remember.

 

[Thirty One]

Are we distinguishing NTCs from NMCs? In terms of trades, they are the exact same thing.

 

[silverfish]

Are we distinguishing NTCs from NMCs? In terms of trades, they are the exact same thing.

How many full NTCs are there that aren't NMCs?

 

[Tawnos]

Actually, I'd say the safer bet is that it's probably pretty low. This considering it's only happened three times that anyone can remember.

The chance of a team even asking is minuscule in the first place.

There are also likely situations of players being asked to provide a list of teams they would consider waiving for and then no deal coming of it.

 

[silverfish]

The chance of a team even asking is minuscule in the first place.

Yet here we are, discussing G and Staal waiving.

 

[JohnC]

Are we distinguishing NTCs from NMCs? In terms of trades, they are the exact same thing.

True. NMC just prevents the player from being waived.

 

[Thirty One]

My favorite NTC story was how the Rangers gave Kotalik trade protection where he could pick three teams he couldn't be traded, the Rangers traded him to one of those teams, and he waived it.