Confirmed Signing with Link: [NYR] Rangers signing Patrik Nemeth (3 years, $2.5M AAV)

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Nemeth was very reliable the first couple months of the season. Ever since his personal leave of absence, he's been bad. Hopefully everything is OK and he can get his game sorted out

 

[Guyute]

First of all, don't be bumping my posts from July. I'll beat you with a pool noodle and steal your dog.

This is what I thought we were getting

This is what we got

Just proves my point that you can’t 100% rely on these expected goal models because the variance can be absurdly high from year to year as players change teams

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Good deal. He proves his worth in the playoffs like he did with the Avs last playoffs. Just not in a good way.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

First of all, don't be bumping my posts from July. I'll beat you with a pool noodle and steal your dog.

This is what I thought we were getting

This is what we got

Seems to be a knock on against the usefulness of those numbers. Like there are things they aren't capturing if the on-ice performance metrics changed by such a degree

 

[Machinehead]

Just proves my point that you can’t 100% rely on these expected goal models because the variance can be absurdly high from year to year as players change teams

I mean, it's generally not and the variance among traditional stats is absolutely higher.

 

[Machinehead]

Seems to be a knock on against the usefulness of those numbers. Like there are things they aren't capturing if the on-ice performance metrics changed by such a degree

It's not. I'm sick of every time something goes wrong meaning "guess we should never use these ever again" while nobody will ever, ever being up when they were right about players declining or progressing. Girardi, Staal, Stralman, Zibanejad, Kreider, Buchnevich, Fox, Hajek, Lindgren, Trouba. The useless charts called all of those players breaking out, regressing, or bouncing back before it happened.

The whole "this is wrong so it's a knock on the numbers" sentiment is like picking out the games Panarin doesn't score in and opining that we should no longer rely on him to score.

The reason the backlash to analytics exists among Rangers fans is because the Rangers consistently stink and people choose to blame the report that they stink rather than the team for not getting better.

 

[Idlerlee]

I am personally offended by this deal and I'm not even involved.

 

[One Winged Angel]

First of all, don't be bumping my posts from July. I'll beat you with a pool noodle and steal your dog.

This is what I thought we were getting

This is what we got

I liked this post because you’re sadist enough to actually try to beat someone with a pool noodle.

I don’t have a dog, but if I did and you stole it, I’d go John Wick on your ass.

 

[Avs44]

Looks like you guys basically got exactly what Nemeth was for the Avs after the deadline last season…

 

[Machinehead]

I liked this post because you’re sadist enough to actually try to beat someone with a pool noodle.

I don’t have a dog, but if I did and you stole it, I’d go John Wick on your ass.

No, fair. You don't f*** with a man's dog.

 

[CupSeeker]

Nemeth needs to sit, period. He has been stinking it up for six weeks. There are talented kids waiting.

 

[Islay1989]

First of all, don't be bumping my posts from July. I'll beat you with a pool noodle and steal your dog.

This is what I thought we were getting

This is what we got

Lol

Everyone and their mother who watched him play told you he is bad. Maybe, just maybe the graphs don't tell the whole story?

 

[McJedi]

thought it was Girardi that screwed the Av's in the playoffs

Nope. Girard is a sublime player most nights. Nemeth is a train wreck shift to shift.

 

[Machinehead]

Lol

Everyone and their mother who watched him play told you he is bad. Maybe, just maybe the graphs don't tell the whole story?

I straight up don't care about anyone's subjective assessments of players.

I stopped caring years ago when AV was coaching the Rangers. A guy literally sitting on the bench didn't know what the f*** he was watching.

 

[Islay1989]

I straight up don't care about anyone's subjective assessments of players.

I stopped caring years ago when AV was coaching the Rangers. A guy literally sitting on the bench didn't know what the f*** he was watching.

The graphs are on the other hand objective and tell you the full story? They showed he is an icing machine? That he has no idea how to defend 5v5? That he can't make a 5+ft pass to save his life? That he gift wrapped two key goals to Vegas? Maybe, just maybe it pays to watch an occasional game or two, just to see if the stats show the complete picture.

 

[ecemleafs]

lately he loves conceding the blue line and later in the shift chasing players behind the net leaving a player wide open in front.

 

[Machinehead]

The graphs are on the other hand objective and tell you the full story? They showed he is an icing machine? That he has no idea how to defend 5v5? That he can't make a 5+ft pass to save his life? That he gift wrapped two key goals to Vegas? Maybe, just maybe it pays to watch an occasional game or two, just to see if the stats show the complete picture.

Literally nobody ever said the charts tell the whole story. Ironically, only the anti-chart cult ever says that.

I still value it over opinions. Opinions are wrong at least 50% of the time and biased 100% of the time but somehow we're supposed to value them over statistics because statistics are sometimes misleading.

Let's put this year aside for a second. For the 3-4 seasons before this, Nemeth's teams gave up fewer shots and goals with him on the ice than with him off. That's a real result. Honestly, why should I care what people think of it?

 

[Islay1989]

Literally nobody ever said the charts tell the whole story. Ironically, only the anti-chart cult ever says that.

I still value it over opinions. Opinions are wrong at least 50% of the time and biased 100% of the time but somehow we're supposed to value them over statistics because statistics are sometimes misleading.

Let's put this year aside for a second. For the 3-4 seasons before this, Nemeth's teams gave up fewer shots and goals with him on the ice than with him off. That's a real result. Honestly, why should I care what people think of it?

I'm not an anti-chart cultist. I'm anti people who run their mouth and put those who actually understand analytics under unnecessary scrutiny.

I do love your take you don't take anyone's view of players as something worthwhile, yet you highhorse around making knee-jerk conclusions reading analytics the way they suit your agenda. Isolating a single player and presenting his shot and goal +/- disregarding quality of comp, quality of teammates, quality of chances he gives up deployment and general usage is about as nonsensical as it gets.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not an anti-chart cultist. I'm anti people who run their mouth and put those who actually understand analytics under unnecessary scrutiny.

I do love your take you don't take anyone's view of players as something worthwhile, yet you highhorse around making knee-jerk conclusions reading analytics the way they suit your agenda. Isolating a single player and presenting his shot and goal +/- disregarding quality of comp, quality of teammates, quality of chances he gives up deployment and general usage is about as nonsensical as it gets.

Ah yes, the "analytics people don't actually UNDERSTAND analytics" trope, very original.

 

[Islay1989]

Ah yes, the "analytics people don't actually UNDERSTAND analytics" trope, very original.

You haven't addressed a single thing I said as per usual. Yes, I don't think you understand analytics and how it correlates to on ice performance. Nemeth is a plus player in global, or at least he was. But let me ask you one thing. Are the Rangers trying to win or be also-rans? Does it really matter if he gets a +3 rating and his linemates generate more shots than they give up against the Islanders and then he gets caved in against Tampa and ends up -2?

He is a guy who plays low event hockey when the tempo isn't amped up. When he gets pressured, when the other team forechecks heavily, when he needs to make a quick play he falls apart. He is a typical example of a passanger who can get by in the regular season by just letting the other 4 guys play the puck, but you don't want him anywhere near your team in crunch.

 

[Machinehead]

You haven't addressed a single thing I said as per usual. Yes, I don't think you understand analytics and how it correlates to on ice performance. Nemeth is a plus player in global, or at least he was. But let me ask you one thing. Are the Rangers trying to win or be also-rans? Does it really matter if he gets a +3 rating and his linemates generate more shots than they give up against the Islanders and then he gets caved in against Tampa and ends up -2?

He is a guy who plays low event hockey when the tempo isn't amped up. When he gets pressured, when the other team forechecks heavily, when he needs to make a quick play he falls apart. He is a typical example of a passanger who can get by in the regular season by just letting the other 4 guys play the puck, but you don't want him anywhere near your team in crunch.

Because I don't care. I politely explained that I don't care.

I've been addressing these points on loop since 2014. People still think what they f***in want to.

 

[Ceremony]

I'd just like to say that I don't know anything about hockey, I don't give two f***s about graphs or spreadsheets, and even I could have told you giving Nemeth a three year deal in 2021 wasn't going to end well for anyone except his bank manager.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Nemeth was a disaster last season and the contract was laughable the second it was announced. Either the Rangers didn't watch the guy play at all or failed miserably in their scouting.