Confirmed with Link: [NYR/NSH] Michael Del Zotto for Kevin Klein

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think this is relevant to this discussion:

http://grantland.com/features/sean-mcindoe-nhl-grantland-dictionary/

You actually have to use your eyes to calculate advanced statistics.

....hypocrite.

 

[Raspewtin]

The Leafs FO overvalue everyone on their roster to death.

That team wont win anything for a long time.

 

[Cassano]

The Leafs FO overvalue everyone on their roster to death.

That team wont win anything for a long time.

I agree with your 2nd point, but they nearly goaded the Rangers into taking on Franson for MDZ. Rangers were the ones who wanted Franson.

The Rangers apparently declined Gardiner for MDZ as well.

 

[Trxjw]

Confirmation Bias.

Eyes are more misleading Lol.

Confirmation bias isn't limited to what someone sees on the ice. It's pretty evident that you're as guilty as anyone considering you just think that clearly flawed stats are somehow stronger evidence than a pair of unbiased eyes.

Here's a stat you can look up:

How many times was Klein scratched in favor of another defender this season?

Again, you used RelCorsi to show that Klein is a inferior defender to Del Zotto. I showed that RelCorsi also says that Stralman is superior to McDonagh. You say the stats individually don't tell the whole story, so let's see the whole story via statistics. Lay it out if it's so conclusive instead of backing away when it's shown that your argument was severely flawed.

 

[Raspewtin]

I agree with your 2nd point, but they nearly goaded the Rangers into taking on Franson for MDZ. Rangers were the ones who wanted Franson.

The Rangers apparently declined Gardiner for MDZ as well.

I'm definitely glad Franson isn't on this team. I don't care what offense he provides, he's ****ing garbage everywhere else.

An MDZ for Gardiner swap would've been totally lateral, if you ask me.

 

[Cassano]

Confirmation bias isn't limited to what someone sees on the ice. It's pretty evident that you're as guilty as anyone considering you just think that clearly flawed stats are somehow stronger evidence than a pair of unbiased eyes.

Here's a stat you can look up:

How many times was Klein scratched in favor of another defender this season?

Again, you used RelCorsi to show that Klein is a inferior defender to Del Zotto. I showed that RelCorsi also says that Stralman is superior to McDonagh. You say the stats individually don't tell the whole story, so let's see the whole story via statistics. Lay it out if it's so conclusive instead of backing away when it's shown that your argument was severely flawed.

Stopped reading here.

 

[Vidic15*]

I agree with your 2nd point, but they nearly goaded the Rangers into taking on Franson for MDZ. Rangers were the ones who wanted Franson.

The Rangers apparently declined Gardiner for MDZ as well.

Franson over Gardiner. Big, right handed shot, not the most physical Dman but he has that big bomb from the point.

 

[Cassano]

I'm definitely glad Franson isn't on this team. I don't care what offense he provides, he's ****ing garbage everywhere else.

An MDZ for Gardiner swap would've been totally lateral, if you ask me.

He's garbage, yet the Rangers still preferred to trade for him first.

Put it together and it'll paint you a great picture of what to expect from this front office management.

You may think he's garbage, the Rangers certainly didn't.

 

[mike14]

Stopped reading here.

why? Eyes are unbiased, it's the brain that adds bias.......

 

[ltrangerfan]

Let's see:

We traded an offensive defenseman who couldn't hit the net

Who was "nervous' with the puck as stated by Av's

Who couldn't play on his off side so had to be switched back to his natural side

Who's offensive play regressed. On D.. At times was a star but then those mistakes?

Who was benched by 2 different coaches -perhaps all he needed was another coach?

Who was about to renew a contract that couldn't be paid to a 3rd line D.

Can he prosper in a new environment? Absolutely.

Was he able to fulfill the Rangers current needs? No.

Was trading him an error? Time will tell but currently the move was needed.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Absolutely unbelievable if what Dreger reported is true.

Actually scratch that. Believable.

 

[Trxjw]

I've never known anyone who was tried to use stats only without watching the games.

Really? I've known plenty of them.

I have no problem with advanced stats. I do have a problem with how they're used. Many supporters treat them as the gospel, but as has been demonstrated so many times, things like Corsi cannot be taken without context. Advanced stats aren't any better than traditional metrics. Corsi is a small piece of the pie in the same way +/- is a a small piece.

But, ya know, math and ****. That must be it.

 

[Trxjw]

Stopped reading here.

Yes, because as one of Del Zotto's biggest supporters, I was clearly watching games with the sole purpose of undermining his value.

It's fine. I've made my point, and "Lol stopped reading" posts only prove it further.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Really? I've known plenty of them.

I have no problem with advanced stats. I do have a problem with how they're used. Many supporters treat them as the gospel, but as has been demonstrated so many times, things like Corsi cannot be taken without context. Advanced stats aren't any better than traditional metrics. Corsi is a small piece of the pie in the same way +/- is a a small piece.

But, ya know, math and ****. That must be it.

I blame Moneyball. Friggin Jonah Hill.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Really? I've known plenty of them.

I have no problem with advanced stats. I do have a problem with how they're used. Many supporters treat them as the gospel, but as has been demonstrated so many times, things like Corsi cannot be taken without context. Advanced stats aren't any better than traditional metrics. Corsi is a small piece of the pie in the same way +/- is a a small piece.

But, ya know, math and ****. That must be it.

I think advanced stats are certainly a useful tool, but tend to be more valuable in other sports.

Too many variables in hockey.

 

[mike14]

I blame Moneyball. Friggin Jonah Hill.

I agree. That movie came out (book? who the hell reads a book?) and suddenly 'advanced stats' are the be and end all of every conversation. Stats are useful, but like always, they need context.

Also, I feel you can blame a lot of the world's problems on Jonah Hill

 

[Trxjw]

I think advanced stats are certainly a useful tool, but tend to be more valuable in other sports.

Too many variables in hockey.

You're just mad that your Corsi rating is in the toilet.

 

[Thirty One]

You actually have to use your eyes to calculate advanced statistics.

....hypocrite.

I laughed.

Confirmation bias isn't limited to what someone sees on the ice. It's pretty evident that you're as guilty as anyone considering you just think that clearly flawed stats are somehow stronger evidence than a pair of unbiased eyes.

errrr.....

Again, you used RelCorsi to show that Klein is a inferior defender to Del Zotto. I showed that RelCorsi also says that Stralman is superior to McDonagh. You say the stats individually don't tell the whole story, so let's see the whole story via statistics. Lay it out if it's so conclusive instead of backing away when it's shown that your argument was severely flawed.

Stralman has better possession numbers than McDonagh because he starts more shifts in the defensive zone and plays against a lot tougher opponents.

Top left to bottom right is progressively tough minutes.

 

[Thirty One]

Advanced stats aren't any better than traditional metrics. Corsi is a small piece of the pie in the same way +/- is a a small piece.

Corsi makes +/- look like a child pornographer.

 

[Beacon]

Karl Kevin Klein

So his initials are KKK?

 

[Cassano]

Yes, because as one of Del Zotto's biggest supporters, I was clearly watching games with the sole purpose of undermining his value.

It's fine. I've made my point, and "Lol stopped reading" posts only prove it further.

I mean, I'm not doubting that you're a MDZ supporter or hater, I'm just messing around with the idea of so called 'unbiased eyes' when you've already made it clear within your mind that these are 'clearly flawed' in your last post.

 

[Thirty One]

So his initials are KKK?

And he still shave his head?

 

[Raspewtin]

He's garbage, yet the Rangers still preferred to trade for him first.

Put it together and it'll paint you a great picture of what to expect from this front office management.

You may think he's garbage, the Rangers certainly didn't.

Just so you know.....I hate Glen Sather and all of management, and am really wow'ed by anything they do right.

I don't know why you have this image of me that I'm a Sather fanboy.

 

[Placid]

So his initials are KKK?

oh dear

 

[Cassano]

I think advanced stats are certainly a useful tool, but tend to be more valuable in other sports.

Too many variables in hockey.

The thing is, the stats here aren't even 'advanced', unlike many baseball statistics like FIP and UZR. Unless you consider basic addition/subtraction advanced.