Proposal: NYR-FL

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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This was suggested by me and approved by @violaswallet , the only reservation being wanted to hold off and see aftermath of free agent moves.
Rangers want a deal on Deangelo to LV which may happen in any event, but odds are better if FL or other than VGK win the AlexPie sweepstakes. To help FL, answering its call for a taker for Stralman, pref a C.
Regardless of AP, basic rationale still applies.
NY wants to move on from Strome, give those mins to younger, cheaper emerging, just wants ballpark market value for righty shot pivot who has tools good enuf to be drafted 5OA.
Strallman we know is legit productive righty shot RD.
Why Panthers need to add/what NY includes for balance...
Age: Strome is mid 20s rfa, Strallman approaching mid 30s.
Term: Strome is open contract, have option to try and do 1-2 yr which player may take in covid situation, tho he likely prefers mo term. Stralman is not a flexible option. 2 yrs remaining.
$: Strome was a little over 3 per and wants 5.5ish; covid says real # likely closer to 4.5. If longer term deal, like 4-5 yrs, possible to start at 4 and escalate, which is same avg annual, but a little better on cash flow. Stralman gets 5.5 cap hit.
x factor: NY would want to flip Stralman as a rental, and he has roughly half league no trade list.

So, for all of the above...
rfa rights on Strome which you may be able to get 4.5 ish and you may be able to have flex to keep down to 1 or go to 2 as you prefer. {Assumes player will oblige but he just wants to get paid, and it is a covid environment, so he may go this low, no lower. }
NYR also add NYR 2021 3rd + 4th

for

Stralman certain at 5.5 x 2
plus FL 2021 2nd
and recent 2nd rounder Emil Heineman


Cap wise this is a step backwards for NY to go two forward when Stralman is flipped. Heineman described as a smaller 'Kreider lite', and 2nd is solid build asset. At that pt, avoiding longer term $ commitment to a vet, after intermediary step w/Stralman, is realized, w/futures gained.

Strome can RW, but if Hoffman or other sniper there, can facilitate such finisher similar to how he did w/breadman in NY. FL gets instant help it claims to want to make a push now during prime Ekblad + cheap Barkov years. Cost is acceptable.

deal?
 
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devils29

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Jan 9, 2019
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Has a team ever traded a prospect that they drafted... *checks notes* ... three days ago?

Also, I'm not sure what use Stralman is to the Rangers at that salary.
June 26 2017 dallas trades Dylan Ferguson (selected 194th June 24th 2017) and a 2nd in 2020 for Mark Methot
 
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bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Has a team ever traded a prospect that they drafted... *checks notes* ... three days ago?

Also, I'm not sure what use Stralman is to the Rangers at that salary.

re: FL moving its prospect, that is the cost of Rangers taking on older Stralman. It was that or more in draft pick capital. A Panthers fan concurred it was fair value.

As to Stralman value to NY, conspicuously, your overlooked:
"Cap wise this is a step backwards for NY to go two forward when Stralman is flipped."
Whether it is earlier with an injury or an add as a TD rental later, Stralman will not be here for 2 full yrs.
Pit stop here is temporary to enable NY to move Strome for value.
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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If a kid doesn't pan out, it's best to cut your losses and move on. I mean, he's had three days to get his act together.

ha.
no better yet, Woody Woodpecker:
ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha
etc.

FL willing to give up this kid + a 2nd which was better for NY than the 2nd we are getting and an additional later 2nd

described as kreider lite, what's not to like?
 
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bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Rangers say no due to stralmans contract

Rangers say yes including for $ reasons.

Strome is a short or long term commitment.
Long term means $$.
Short term is fine, but you get no long term upside which you are not paying for.

Getting futures for Strome works, which is what this does.

To facilitate that, NY has to take back Stralman.
But Stralman is a separate contract that can be flipped, with or without retention, for added value.

Big picture, long term, not the immediate.

Also, cumulative effect.
Move on from
Strome [include Stralman thereafter]
Buch [for market value]
Deangelo [ditto]

we are in even better shape re cap/ex dr

only real ???????????? is Johnson signing, which is either somebody doing somebody a favor, or Rangers new D coach who knows JJ envisioning he can get better out of him short term in a new system.
 

violaswallet

Registered User
Apr 8, 2019
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To argue for Florida: the additional 5.5M would let us re-sign Hoff (6.7) and add a guy like Hamonic (4.3) on today’s team that currently has ~5.5 after re-signing free agents.

Two 2nds are costly but I’d do Stralman+2 seconds for Hoffman and Hamonic
 

TGWL

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Jul 28, 2011
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Rangers aren't taking a pivot dman for that much money, unless it's one of our own like DeAngelo.

You want to know why we have Jack Johnson? Its because we have no money and needed something for the left side. Gorton said he wanted to do something for the left side. Well this is what happens when you have no cap space. We have no money to make moves like your proposal. If we did, Jack Johnson wouldn't be a NYR.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Rangers aren't taking a pivot dman for that much money, unless it's one of our own like DeAngelo.

You want to know why we have Jack Johnson? Its because we have no money and needed something for the left side. Gorton said he wanted to do something for the left side. Well this is what happens when you have no cap space. We have no money to make moves like your proposal. If we did, Jack Johnson wouldn't be a NYR.

We did not need Jack Johnson.
It surely could only have been an indulgence to our new coach.

For the record, Koekkoek would be my alternate choice --- a cheap young LD who plays good enough D who is a good stopgap w/outside upside choice.
JJ is throwing $ after bad.

As to the proposed, how lazy are people?
When one stop shopping presents itself, great.
But if not, why the big downer.

step 1, move Strome for assets + slightly more salary
step 2, move the slightly more salary.
Stralman likely to return assets.

Why no patience?
why no 2 step.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Because Step 2 banks on there being a market for a higher cap hit player. If that doesn't happen, step 3 is you're stuck...

We have ours up front in what we get at step 1.
If we liquidate Stralman at cost, we are ahead of the game.

You are right to point out there is risk. There's always risk/reward.
Pt 1. price on Stralman will be set based on need, which is possible as to an add on piece, but is more likely a response to an injury or emergency that requires a stopgap.

Pt. 2 Solution to cap concern is eat cap on Stralman, if nec.
However, I don't think it will come to that.
If we sell Stralman cheap just to recover all/most of the cap, I see that increases interested bidders.
Also we can take back a bad contract that expires this year, let our partner who is more concerned with immediate need address that and deal w/Stralman's 2nd year later.
So for example, we have Smith at 4.35 expiring.
Let's say we didn't and a partner did.
Smith's expiring 4.35 and small add to remove the higher quality Stralman 5.5 x 2.
Or possibly Smith partially retained and a smaller add still for Stralman.

Fortune favors the bold
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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As explained we have a decent chance to move Stralman's 5.5 x 2 and even earn a little somethin somethin in the process.

Reward is satisfactory +, risk is minimal.

anyone think we have a better workaround for Strome?
 

FireGorton

Laf to Kak
Aug 6, 2020
327
71
This was suggested by me and approved by @violaswallet , the only reservation being wanted to hold off and see aftermath of free agent moves.
Rangers want a deal on Deangelo to LV which may happen in any event, but odds are better if FL or other than VGK win the AlexPie sweepstakes. To help FL, answering its call for a taker for Stralman, pref a C.
Regardless of AP, basic rationale still applies.
NY wants to move on from Strome, give those mins to younger, cheaper emerging, just wants ballpark market value for righty shot pivot who has tools good enuf to be drafted 5OA.
Strallman we know is legit productive righty shot RD.
Why Panthers need to add/what NY includes for balance...
Age: Strome is mid 20s rfa, Strallman approaching mid 30s.
Term: Strome is open contract, have option to try and do 1-2 yr which player may take in covid situation, tho he likely prefers mo term. Stralman is not a flexible option. 2 yrs remaining.
$: Strome was a little over 3 per and wants 5.5ish; covid says real # likely closer to 4.5. If longer term deal, like 4-5 yrs, possible to start at 4 and escalate, which is same avg annual, but a little better on cash flow. Stralman gets 5.5 cap hit.
x factor: NY would want to flip Stralman as a rental, and he has roughly half league no trade list.

So, for all of the above...
rfa rights on Strome which you may be able to get 4.5 ish and you may be able to have flex to keep down to 1 or go to 2 as you prefer. {Assumes player will oblige but he just wants to get paid, and it is a covid environment, so he may go this low, no lower. }
NYR also add NYR 2021 3rd + 4th

for

Stralman certain at 5.5 x 2
plus FL 2021 2nd
and recent 2nd rounder Emil Heineman


Cap wise this is a step backwards for NY to go two forward when Stralman is flipped. Heineman described as a smaller 'Kreider lite', and 2nd is solid build asset. At that pt, avoiding longer term $ commitment to a vet, after intermediary step w/Stralman, is realized, w/futures gained.

Strome can RW, but if Hoffman or other sniper there, can facilitate such finisher similar to how he did w/breadman in NY. FL gets instant help it claims to want to make a push now during prime Ekblad + cheap Barkov years. Cost is acceptable.

deal?
Rangers get hosed badly. We dumped Staal’s one year so they could bring in Anton for 2 years???? Change the two 2nds into a first rounder unprotected with Rangers option to defer till 2022.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,689
3,716
Da Big Apple
Rangers get hosed badly. We dumped Staal’s one year so they could bring in Anton for 2 years???? Change the two 2nds into a first rounder unprotected with Rangers option to defer till 2022.

That's not realistic!!!!!!!!!!!
Strome all by his lonesome does not fetch a first, even if unprotected, especially with consideration it is delayed gratification.

Strome only fetches a 1st if NY adds.

Value remains at 2nd +, the + depending on what else is involved.

-------------

Also, remember, value aside, this is 2020, covid/flat cap reality.
You are trying to force the trade partner to just swallow Strome's salary, with nothing coming back. That is either undoable, or it diminishes our return.

NOW
what do you think?
 

Lindberg Cheese

Registered User
Apr 28, 2013
7,257
4,728
Cambodia
I typically dislike deals that force us to have to make another move, in this case ADA. As it stands, we don’t have to do anything which is a position of strength we shouldn’t give up for this deal
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,689
3,716
Da Big Apple
I typically dislike deals that force us to have to make another move, in this case ADA. As it stands, we don’t have to do anything which is a position of strength we shouldn’t give up for this deal

Does not follow.
We are planning an ADA move regardless.
This just helps grease the wheels for that.
But we are not required to do this for that, as if that is the only option prerequisite.

Also, while it is a 2 step process that requires follow thru on losing Stralman subsequently, this deal gets Strome off our hands for value.
So regardless of what tangent issue there is about ADA connected/not connected, we should do this.

Unless, you see a better return for Strome? I do not, not off top of my head.
 

FireGorton

Laf to Kak
Aug 6, 2020
327
71
That's not realistic!!!!!!!!!!!
Strome all by his lonesome does not fetch a first, even if unprotected, especially with consideration it is delayed gratification.

Strome only fetches a 1st if NY adds.

Value remains at 2nd +, the + depending on what else is involved.

-------------

Also, remember, value aside, this is 2020, covid/flat cap reality.
You are trying to force the trade partner to just swallow Strome's salary, with nothing coming back. That is either undoable, or it diminishes our return.

NOW
what do you think?
It’s not about Strome for a first. It’s Rangers taking a worthless player like Anton who is washed up. Staal = 2nd and that’s one bad year. Rangers taking on two years of Anton = 1st
 

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