Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

[mulli25]

They were on track. Doesn't mean Gorton was great or perfect. Doesn't mean he didn't have some significant mistakes on his resume as GM of the NYR.

Never blindly defer to authority without analyzing a situation in full.

Curious what specifically what you're referring to here and what your criteria is for a significant mistake. It certainly has to be more consequential than Ryan Graves, right? To me it has to have big enough consequences that the organization is in a drastically different spot had the decision not been made.

I see a handful of trades/picks and moves that weren't perfect, along with a bunch of really good ones. For me, the closest he came to a "significant mistake" was the Kreider extension, but someone could certainly argue that the jury is still out on that. The LA pick was close as well, but I don't really think the organization is significantly different one way or another if a different pick is made in that spot.

 

[mulli25]

double post, delete

 

[Bluto]

This is ridiculous.

Has LA flourished elsewhere?
Kravtsov seems to be none the worse for wear.
The entire league could have had ADA for nothing. And every team passed.

No it's not ridiculous.
It doesn't matter that LA is the worst player ever. The fact that it was so public is a problem. Same with the ADA thing. Same with the Kravtsov thing. The fact that none of the major problems the team had could be handled professionally behind closed doors is indicative of a true lack of professionalism and leadership at the top.
As a business owner I have fired people for this exact thing. Letting a worthless employee cause distraction in the workplace is a direct indictment of a shitty leader. And it happened to NYR 3 times in 2 years.
It happened 3 times. Every once in awhile is at least understandable. 3 times in 2 years is a massive problem and is a direct failure by upper management.
The entire league passed on ADA for nothing due to the failure of management keeping the situation under wraps. The Rangers could have had a first round pick in return for him 9 months ago. They chose to roll with ADA knowing what his personal shortcomings are. And on top of that, they chose the side of a mediocre goalie over him. That entire situation is a clusterf*** of poor leadership across the board.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Curious what specifically what you're referring to here and what your criteria is for a significant mistake. It certainly has to be more consequential than Ryan Graves, right? To me it has to have big enough consequences that the organization is in a drastically different spot had the decision not been made.

I see a handful of trades/picks and moves that weren't perfect, along with a bunch of really good ones. For me, the closest he came to a "significant mistake" was the Kreider extension, but someone could certainly argue that the jury is still out on that. The LA pick was close as well, but I don't really think the organization is significantly different one way or another if a different pick is made in that spot.

In the last two pages of this thread there are a ton of examples written by people.

You can make anyone look a helluva lot better if you hand wave some of their biggest mistakes bc it's true that everyone makes mistakes.

But like, that's fine. I didn't say he was a bad GM. I didn't say he made more mistakes than a typical GM.

I said he made enough mistakes that I don't consider him a great GM necessarily either.

Like I wrote earlier, I forgot about the Graves mistake so when I saw him and remembered that shitty trade, it just annoyed me. It was yet another example on top of the multitude that people have been talking about for more than a season now.

 

[mulli25]

In the last two pages of this thread there are a ton of examples written by people.

You can make anyone look a helluva lot better if you hand wave some of their biggest mistakes bc it's true that everyone makes mistakes.

But like, that's fine. I didn't say he was a bad GM. I didn't say he made more mistakes than a typical GM.

I said he made enough mistakes that I don't consider him a great GM necessarily either.

Like I wrote earlier, I forgot about the Graves mistake so when I saw him and remembered that shitty trade, it just annoyed me. It was yet another example on top of the multitude that people have been talking about for more than a season now.

Right, but which mistakes do you think were significant? And what makes them significant?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Right, but which mistakes do you think were significant? And what makes them significant?

I mean I literally just said they're all over the last two pages...it's not like I'm telling you to dig through hundreds of pages of the thread...

An insignificant mistake might be trading one minor leaguer for another and we get the shittier minor leaguer

A significant mistake is missing on a valuable prospect or big money FA. Using valuable picks on trades that dont go our way. Stuff in that realm

 

[mulli25]

I mean I literally just said they're all over the last two pages...it's not like I'm telling you to dig through hundreds of pages of the thread...

I'm asking specifically which one's you think are significant, and why. All of them? What about each of them makes them so consequential?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I'm asking specifically which one's you think are significant, and why. All of them? What about each of them makes them so consequential?

I mean, again, I literally just told you twice a shit load of them are listed on the previous two pages.

Why on Earth would I go through each one and break it down for you when your entry into this convo was to ignore their existence and lazily handwave two pretty significant ones right away? You can go quote them very easily and argue against them. I don't see it as reasonable to ask me to redo a convo that was literally on the last two pages

 

[mulli25]

I mean, again, I literally just told you twice a shit load of them are listed on the previous two pages.

Why on Earth would I go through each one and break it down when your entry into this convo was to ignore their existence and lazily handwave two pretty significant ones right away?

I guess I just assumed you wanted to have a discussion about it? Everyone makes mistakes sometimes just like very good GMs

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I guess I just assumed you wanted to have a discussion about it? Everyone makes mistakes sometimes just like very good GMs

I did...along with a bunch of others...on the last two pages. You're asking me to start redoing something that was JUST done. The points are made, go quote them and argue against them.

You did that with the Kreider and LA move. I then made a counter point back. You then moved on to trying to get me to repeat stuff that's a click away

 

[romba]

LA being shit everywhere too only makes the draft pick look even worse, but makes their handling of him marginally better. Overall it's still a HUGE L and blackeye on the drafting decision makers. You don't get to blow top 15 1st rounders like that and just throw it under the rug (unless you're Glen Sather)

 

[NYSPORTS]

I mean, again, I literally just told you twice a shit load of them are listed on the previous two pages.

Why on Earth would I go through each one and break it down for you when your entry into this convo was to ignore their existence and lazily handwave two pretty significant ones right away? You can go quote them very easily and argue against them. I don't see it as reasonable to ask me to redo a convo that was literally on the last two pages

it's the offseason lol. Get used to it

 

[haveandare]

No it's not ridiculous.
It doesn't matter that LA is the worst player ever. The fact that it was so public is a problem. Same with the ADA thing. Same with the Kravtsov thing. The fact that none of the major problems the team had could be handled professionally behind closed doors is indicative of a true lack of professionalism and leadership at the top.
As a business owner I have fired people for this exact thing. Letting a worthless employee cause distraction in the workplace is a direct indictment of a shitty leader. And it happened to NYR 3 times in 2 years.
It happened 3 times. Every once in awhile is at least understandable. 3 times in 2 years is a massive problem and is a direct failure by upper management.
The entire league passed on ADA for nothing due to the failure of management keeping the situation under wraps. The Rangers could have had a first round pick in return for him 9 months ago. They chose to roll with ADA knowing what his personal shortcomings are. And on top of that, they chose the side of a mediocre goalie over him. That entire situation is a clusterf*** of poor leadership across the board.

Anything to suggest they actually could have gotten a first round pick for him? I think they would have taken a decent first for him when they were in that contract dispute. Him being difficult wasn’t some new happening or big secret before the last thing with Georgiev. Also it’s not about picking sides with a better or worse player, the better player was in the wrong consistently and repeatedly. You can’t complain about culture and then also suggest more talented guys should have no consequences.

 

[Bluto]

Anything to suggest they actually could have gotten a first round pick for him? I think they would have taken a decent first for him when they were in that contract dispute. Him being difficult wasn’t some new happening or big secret before the last thing with Georgiev. Also it’s not about picking sides with a better or worse player, the better player was in the wrong consistently and repeatedly. You can’t complain about culture and then also suggest more talented guys should have no consequences.

I agree that you can't pick sides in that situation which was part of the problem. I think they should have canned Georgiev too after that, do not mistake me. I would have traded him that day.

we're pulling at hairs at the specifics for the return NYR could have gotten for ADA.. it really doesn't matter. they could have gotten SOMETHING for him. Instead, they rolled the dice and paid him 5 million not to play which, once again, goes back on management as a horrible business decision considering all of the buyouts NYR has had to take. I for one hate paying people who aren't working for me as a business owner. I'm sure Dolan feels the same way... Especially now when the league isn't making money, hence the flat cap.
DQ, JD and JG mishandled EVERYTHING about the ADA situation. They flubbed it so incredibly and publicly that it warranted a firing. Like that entire situation was so publicly embarrassing to the organization and so much horse shit came out of it and a slump... I don't understand how anyone can defend management at all for it.

And that shit happened publicly 3 times in 2 years.
I really don't understand why or how that's acceptable.

Please name one other time in the history of NYR that we have had scandals like this multiple times in consecutive years.

The occasional poor asset management is forgivable. Losing a trade is forgivable. That's part of the business. You're not going to win them all. Do it too many times and you end up fired. Losing control of your team and image while costing the owner money... that's worthy of a termination. If you disagree, I don't know what to tell you

 

[haveandare]

I agree that you can't pick sides in that situation which was part of the problem. I think they should have canned Georgiev too after that, do not mistake me. I would have traded him that day.

we're pulling at hairs at the specifics for the return NYR could have gotten for ADA.. it really doesn't matter. they could have gotten SOMETHING for him. Instead, they rolled the dice and paid him 5 million not to play which, once again, goes back on management as a horrible business decision considering all of the buyouts NYR has had to take. I for one hate paying people who aren't working for me as a business owner. I'm sure Dolan feels the same way... Especially now when the league isn't making money, hence the flat cap.
DQ, JD and JG mishandled EVERYTHING about the ADA situation. They flubbed it so incredibly and publicly that it warranted a firing. Like that entire situation was so publicly embarrassing to the organization and so much horse shit came out of it and a slump... I don't understand how anyone can defend management at all for it.

And that shit happened publicly 3 times in 2 years.
I really don't understand why or how that's acceptable.

Please name one other time in the history of NYR that we have had scandals like this multiple times in consecutive years.

The occasional poor asset management is forgivable. Losing a trade is forgivable. That's part of the business. You're not going to win them all. Do it too many times and you end up fired. Losing control of your team and image while costing the owner money... that's worthy of a termination. If you disagree, I don't know what to tell you

I don’t really know how to expect they better handle the Ada situation though. Ok trade Georgiev too. Is that somehow a better handling of it? Feels the same, but now you need a backup too. Ada put them in a terrible spot with his selfishness and inability to take any direction on how he conducts himself in the room. It feels odd to me to blame someone else for his poor behavior.

Also I don’t think the Lias and Kravstov things were really scandals similar to that. Lias thinks he’s better then he is, which absolutely happens with young busts. And Kravstov was unhappy he didn’t make the team, went and improved and came back and made it.

 

[nyr2k2]

The ADA thing, I guess the move would have been to trade him rather than sign him. I don't know what was out there, though--anything good? People would have been ready to castrate JD and Gorton if the best offer was a 2nd and B prospect or something. Again though, I don't know what was out there. So they signed him, gambling that they could continue to make it work, but the player didn't cooperate and evidently was enough of a problem to basically get himself fired. Lots of ifs or maybes with him since we don't know all the details. Trading Georgiev wouldn't help and would have also been silly, as guys fighting with teammates happens more than some seem willing to acknowledge or are just ignorant to. You don't trade a guy for popping a teammate who's jawing at him, especially if the teammate is a noted turd.

Andersson, I hated that at first. I thought the team created the situation. The more I saw and heard from Lias and his camp, the more clear it became to me he was just an entitled brat and Quinn (who I was "meh" on) was probably justified in keeping him on the fourth line. What happened with Andersson happens to lots of young guys, but most of them don't handle it like him. Guy was supposed to be a leader, but he was just a whiny baby.

The Kravtsov thing looked bad at first but in the end, appears to have worked out.

 

[True Blue]

you do own the belt. Nobody is dethroning you Pot. Keep surfing for controversy

No controversy. Just calling a spade a spade

 

[True Blue]

Riiiight TB, Anyway when I want to see clowns in action I go to the circus/give someone another shot by taking them off ignore. When the clown shit gets real old, real fast I go home. There was nothing wrong with what I said (which is why you couldn't argue against it.)

There was nothing wrong with what you said. Once you get past the shroud of ignorance.

 

[True Blue]

The entire league passed on ADA for nothing due to the failure of management keeping the situation under wraps. The Rangers could have had a first round pick in return for him 9 months ago. They chose to roll with ADA knowing what his personal shortcomings are. And on top of that, they chose the side of a mediocre goalie over him. That entire situation is a clusterf*** of poor leadership across the board.

The entire league passed on DeAngelo for no other reason as he is DeAngelo. What do you think the term "teams doing due diligence" means? You think that they did not look under all nooks and crannies? The entire situation was the clusterf*** you say it was because DeAngelo went meshuggeneh. That is the reason he is virtually blackballed right now.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I think this has run its course.