Nylander contract talk VI

[56 Years No Cup]

Do you actually believe that Nylander will be 100% when he returns? It will be at least 3 weeks before he is tuned up.

Maybe not three weeks but for sure he won't be in "game shape".

 

[Notsince67]

Walshy- I find it hard to believe that Babcock would cut off his nose to spite his face. Like you said, Willie goes right back on AM's line, and if he can't keep up/doesn't perform, then he'll be demoted.

Not a chance he performs 18 minutes on the top line after not playing since april 25th

 

[56 Years No Cup]

I've made that similar case here that internal pay scale will be a % of teammates based teammates influencing output.

ie If Matthews gets $11 mil and puts up PPG stats then Marner's agent will say Mitch is worth at least 80% of Matthews with similar PPG stats.. So Marner's asking price = $8.8 mil on his new deal AAV.

Nylander agents says Willie with Matthews point production is similar to JT with Mitch and Marner and Nylander are close in talent so why should my client sign for $6.5 mil if you're going to pay my teammate comparable Marner $8.5-$8.8 mil?.

You keep beating this dead horse. AM and JT's contracts have no bearing on MM and WN's. Period.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Not a chance he performs 18 minutes on the top line after not playing since april 25th

You are probably right, but Babcock will have to see it for himself.

 

[Clark4Ever]

We need Ennis to keep scoring to bring Nylander's AAV down, lol.

 

[Notsince67]

You are probably right, but Babcock will have to see it for himself.

I'm pretty sure Babcock does Willy a favor by not putting him on the 1st for a spell.

 

[Duke Silver]

I'm not sure how he could ask for anything more than the 8.9% Pastrnak got.

 

[Walshy7]

Not a chance he performs 18 minutes on the top line after not playing since april 25th

We are seeing some fans turn on him here and in the public, starting him away from matthews is piling pressure into the kids shoulders. Average fans will see he isn’t scoring at regular pace the outside pressure on him will build. If babcock demotes him just because and not seeing if he can play 18 mins a night he doesn’t care about previous comments of “making toronto a safe place to play”. If after 5+ games he clearly can’t handle it he will have a reason to demote him. Just flat out doing it makes babcock look very small but imo.

Again can’t wait to see the outrage when marner and or Matthews hold out and are demoted

 

[56 Years No Cup]

I'm pretty sure Babcock does Willy a favor by not putting him on the 1st for a spell.

I could see it that way. Willie might not.

 

[DanM]

I remember hearing Willy is still in Sweden training. I wonder if he is at least back in Toronto, waiting for a resolution, and quick lineup insertion if a deal is struck...

 

[Brown Dog]

I love Willie but we have the forward depth to wait him out.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

.

Again can’t wait to see the outrage when marner and or Matthews hold out and are demoted

IF it happens I expect the result will be what you see here. I also predict the outrage would be worse if Marner held out because he's the "hometown boy" that won't give a "hometown discount". Matthews will get more slack IMO because he's not from Toronto and frankly he's a better player.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The idea that players who sign late perform bad is grossly exaggerated. Let's look at some examples:

Pastrnak - Signed relatively late, followed it up with a career year.
Lindholm - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a strong season.
Rakell - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with his best season to date.
Ristolainen - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a career year.
Gaudreau - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a weak season.
Anderson - Signed just as season was about to start, had best year to date.
Manson - Signed just as season was about to start, had career year.
Ehlers - Signed just as season was about to start, had a strong season.

These are the first names I found, other than Jagr who I deemed not a good example to use. Out of eight guys, one of them had a weak year. Gaudreau. Now what happened with his game? Well, nothing with his even strength game. Calgary's PP fell apart though, affecting everyone. I sincerely doubt that Gaudreau missing preseason caused the PP to fall apart for a whole season.

In five of the cases, the player followed it up with their best season so far.

 

[DanM]

IF it happens I expect the result will be what you see here. I also predict the outrage would be worse if Marner held out because he's the "hometown boy" that won't give a "hometown discount". Matthews will get more slack IMO because he's not from Toronto and frankly he's a better player.

Marner would be shat on hard! lol

For some reason I feel he will be the hardest to sign, seems to really want to prove to the world he is a man (the whole 12 year old joke thing)

 

[Eternal Leaf]

The idea that players who sign late perform bad is grossly exaggerated. Let's look at some examples:

Pastrnak - Signed relatively late, followed it up with a career year.
Lindholm - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a strong season.
Rakell - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with his best season to date.
Ristolainen - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a career year.
Gaudreau - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a weak season.
Anderson - Signed just as season was about to start, had best year to date.
Manson - Signed just as season was about to start, had career year.
Ehlers - Signed just as season was about to start, had career year.

These are the first names I found, other than Jagr who I deemed not a good example to use. Out of eight guys, one of them had a weak year. Gaudreau. Now what happened with his game? Well, nothing with his even strength game. Calgary's PP fell apart though, affecting everyone. I sincerely doubt that Gaudreau missing preseason caused the PP to fall apart for a whole season.

Agree, most NHL players get up to speed quickly.

Ehlers still had a year left on his contract, so he was at training camp.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I've made that similar case here that internal pay scale will be a % of teammates based teammates influencing output.

ie If Matthews gets $11 mil and puts up PPG stats then Marner's agent will say Mitch is worth at least 80% of Matthews with similar PPG stats.. So Marner's asking price = $8.8 mil on his new deal AAV.

Nylander agents says Willie with Matthews point production is similar to JT with Mitch and Marner and Nylander are close in talent so why should my client sign for $6.5 mil if you're going to pay my teammate comparable Marner $8.5-$8.8 mil?.

Dubas could just say he isn't going to and that argument is completely gone. There is no possible way for Nylanders agent to argue for future contracts that aren't a thing right now. Dubas could say Marner will get offered the same contract as Nylander. It's just entirely nonsensical to think it is even a thing right now.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Agree, most NHL players get up to speed quickly.

Ehlers still had a year left on his contract, so he was at training camp.

Good point.

 

[Walshy7]

IF it happens I expect the result will be what you see here. I also predict the outrage would be worse if Marner held out because he's the "hometown boy" that won't give a "hometown discount". Matthews will get more slack IMO because he's not from Toronto and frankly he's a better player.

Yeah agree I don’t think we will have to worry about Matthews his ceiling is mcdavid no matter wether he thinks he is better than mcdavid or not I’m not sure why he’d want the pressure of highest paid player on the league and the floor is probably $10m for some reason I think he just ends up with 8 year version of Jts deal.

Marner I think will take longer to sign but the hometown angle could go both ways really. He is adored I could see toronto fans saying “dubas is f***ing this up pay him” OR “marner mustn’t love toronto as much as he says he does”

 

[Cor]

I love Willie but we have the forward depth to wait him out.

Pretty much.

Willy's agent is known for holding out to just before the opener, and then taking whatever the team is offering. It'll be fine.

 

[Notsince67]

The idea that players who sign late perform bad is grossly exaggerated. Let's look at some examples:

Pastrnak - Signed relatively late, followed it up with a career year.
Lindholm - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a strong season.
Rakell - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with his best season to date.
Ristolainen - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a career year.
Gaudreau - Signed when season had already started, followed it up with a weak season.
Anderson - Signed just as season was about to start, had best year to date.
Manson - Signed just as season was about to start, had career year.
Ehlers - Signed just as season was about to start, had a strong season.

These are the first names I found, other than Jagr who I deemed not a good example to use. Out of eight guys, one of them had a weak year. Gaudreau. Now what happened with his game? Well, nothing with his even strength game. Calgary's PP fell apart though, affecting everyone. I sincerely doubt that Gaudreau missing preseason caused the PP to fall apart for a whole season.

In five of the cases, the player followed it up with their best season so far.

You are measuring a full season against a late start? I would be more convinced if you proved that production in the first 2 to 3 weeks of playing was unimpaired.
Even JT talked about getting his timing better this pre-season. I'm pretty sure if JT feels he can tune up, Willy can tune up as well.
Johnsson and Kapanen sure looked like they need a tune up. Even Matthews had the puck stripped from him on the leafs own blue line. Imagine if that happens to Willy on his debut.
Willy will be under tremendous scrutiny when he comes back. In the long run, it won't matter. In the short run, one mistake could create a chorus of boos that affects his confidence.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Yeah agree I don’t think we will have to worry about Matthews his ceiling is mcdavid no matter wether he thinks he is better than mcdavid or not I’m not sure why he’d want the pressure of highest paid player on the league and the floor is probably $10m for some reason I think he just ends up with 8 year version of Jts deal.

Marner I think will take longer to sign but the hometown angle could go both ways really. He is adored I could see toronto fans saying “dubas is ****ing this up pay him” OR “marner mustn’t love toronto as much as he says he does”

IMO realistic Marner fans will say the same things they're saying here.....that there's only so much cap to go around and Mitch needs to temper his demands in order to keep the band together. Marner fanboys....well that's a different story.

 

[613Leafer]

Nylander agents says Willie with Matthews point production is similar to JT with Mitch and Marner and Nylander are close in talent so why should my client sign for $6.5 mil if you're going to pay my teammate comparable Marner $8.5-$8.8 mil?.

Are they comparable? A few pretty big facts:

1) Marner is one year younger. So his 69 point season last year should be compared against Nylander's 2016-2017 season. What Marner does this upcoming year should be compared to Nylander's 2017-2018 season.

2) Nylander predominantly played with Matthews, the best player on the team, highest PPG on the team, and the most likely to boost his linemates offensive stats. Marner on the otherhand was the highest scorer on his line.

3) Despite being younger and despite not playing with Matthews, Marner put up ~13% more points than Nylander last year.

So I'd say at this point, Marner has clearly distinguished himself from Nylander. On top of that, Marner as it stands right now, is not getting 8.5-8.8M. He needs to show a pretty solid increase this upcoming season to warrant that (an increase that would put him on an even higher level than Nylander than he already is).

Pastrnak after a 34 goal/70 point season only got 6.6M. Kucherov with 85 then 100 point seasons just got 9.5M, and that's as an older player giving up more UFA years (i.e. expected to be more expensive). An identical ~69 point season from Marner this season probably gets him ~7.25M (more than Pastrnak due to cap going up + more than one 60+ point season under his belt). To get 8M+, he needs an ~80 point season IMO.

 

[Pi]

I've made that similar case here that internal pay scale will be a % of teammates based teammates influencing output.

ie If Matthews gets $11 mil and puts up PPG stats then Marner's agent will say Mitch is worth at least 80% of Matthews with similar PPG stats.. So Marner's asking price = $8.8 mil on his new deal AAV.

Nylander agents says Willie with Matthews point production is similar to JT with Mitch and Marner and Nylander are close in talent so why should my client sign for $6.5 mil if you're going to pay my teammate comparable Marner $8.5-$8.8 mil?.

That’s not how it works. Nylander’s agent can’t use made up numbers for Marner’s contract when he hasn’t signed one.

That is why it is extremely important to set the precendent on Nylander’s contract itself.

In my eyes, Nylander = Marner. Nylander has played the harder match ups and produced roughly the same without being on PP1.

Marner won’t get too much more than Nylander unless he explodes and puts up 80-90 points this season.

 

[Nithoniniel]

You are measuring a full season against a late start? I would be more convinced if you proved that production in the first 2 to 3 weeks of playing was unimpaired.
Even JT talked about getting his timing better this pre-season. I'm pretty sure if JT feels he can tune up, Willy can tune up as well.
Johnsson and Kapanen sure looked like they need a tune up. Even Matthews had the puck stripped from him on the leafs own blue line. Imagine if that happens to Willy on his debut.
Willy will be under tremendous scrutiny when he comes back. In the long run, it won't matter. In the short run, one mistake could create a chorus of boos that affects his confidence.

Yeah, players don't play the same in preseason games as they do in regular season, so I'm not sure that's the best argument. But you are right that my example was focused on the claim some has made that no preseason is followed up by a bad season. If you want to make the claim that they might start slow, that's a different question. I have not seen any evidence either for or against such an assumption.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Lol what's with that link?

You can find a Swedish to English translation of this article courtesy of Bing Microsoft Translator at the following link:

www.expressen.se/sport/kronikorer/gunnar-nordstrom/lar-sluta-sa-har-allt-annat-skulle-forvana/ - Translator

Nylander has no desire to play for a discounted price for two years so that Tavares to earn so much more than him, and then also end up in the backwater of Matthews and Marner.

What if he gets hurt and all those other question marks, put forward at the table during these negotiations.

In addition, know William, of course, that Matthews will get at least $11 million a year next summer. That's what Tavares earns in salary over the next seven years.

Then think Nylander that 8 million is a reasonable sum given his potential.

Toronto wants to buy itself some time, when the 39-year-old Patrick Marleau has two years left on his contract, which devours 6.250 million dollars out of the spelarbudgeten.

When he disappears in two years, there is more money to give Nylander.

Patience, is thus linked to the Club's message to William only made three seasons in the National Hockey League (NHL).

Dubas mean that Nylander will have his big raise eventually if he continues to do the right thing for themselves and develop into a striker in the League.

The mode is locked, in other words how it ends?

That said, my guess is that William presses forward with a contract worth 6.8-7.0 million dollars within a few days.