Post-Game Talk: Nurse and Bouchard played their best OHL games of the season

[CycloneSweep]

I think your reaching like crazy. We’re more or less set in the top 6. Where are these massive holes at the top of the roster? Goaltending is the only one.

So yeah if zero of our current prospects can play mid level roles by then we are screwed I agree.

More or less set? We have 25 mill in space in 2 off seasons with ONLY Hyman, McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge signed as top 6 forwards. Nuge is better suited as a third line guy now. So how is missing HALF a top 6 is still set.

We are also missing half a top 4 defence including one top pairing guy. Those are massive holes and that’s only if Ceci can keep up his sudden top 4 level play and a starter goalie. I don’t see how you don’t see them as massive holes.

Puljujarvi, Holloway, Yamamoto will take up probably 10 mill together in 2 off seasons and that’s ONLY if Holloway can be a top 6 guy that quick. So that drops that 25-27 in cap all the way down to 15-17 for 15 players. So unless we are going to have 2-3 elc top 4 defenders and a elc starting goalie, how do you see this being possible?

 

[Soundwave]

I think your reaching like crazy. We’re more or less set in the top 6. Where are these massive holes at the top of the roster? Goaltending is the only one.

So yeah if zero of our current prospects can play mid level roles by then we are screwed I agree.

The d corps is really awful. They need a top 10 goalie to mask the D being what they are.

 

[MessierII]

More or less set? We have 25 mill in space in 2 off seasons with ONLY Hyman, McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge signed as top 6 forwards. Nuge is better suited as a third line guy now. So how is missing HALF a top 6 is still set.

We are also missing half a top 4 defence including one top pairing guy. Those are massive holes and that’s only if Ceci can keep up his sudden top 4 level play and a starter goalie. I don’t see how you don’t see them as massive holes.

Puljujarvi, Holloway, Yamamoto will take up probably 10 mill together in 2 off seasons and that’s ONLY if Holloway can be a top 6 guy that quick. So that drops that 25-27 in cap all the way down to 15-17 for 15 players. So unless we are going to have 2-3 elc top 4 defenders and a elc starting goalie, how do you see this being possible?

I don’t get your logic here. Sign Yamo and Jesse and you need one top 6 forward only if your playing Nuge on line 3. It’s literally only an issue if zero prospects are playing. On D it’s worse for sure but I don’t Bouchard is close to fully developed. I think at least 2 of Broberg, Niemo, Samurokov will be playing as regulars. Skinner will be cost controlled unless he goes insane which solves our goalie issue internally. We are fine cap wise after next year.

 

[Oilhawks]

Eh, the cap issues can be cleaned up pretty well after that dead cap comes off next offseason, @MessierII is right. The problem is more if Nurse is going to be an albatross and also who they have in as GM at the time.

They’ll need to make sure that bottom 6 and bottom pairing guys are paid appropriately, be it through prospects taking the reigns or cheaper vets (pro scouting!)

 

[CycloneSweep]

I don’t get your logic here. Sign Yamo and Jesse and you need one top 6 forward only if your playing Nuge on line 3. It’s literally only an issue of zero prospects are playing. On D it’s worse for sure but I don’t Bouchard is close to fully developed. I think at least 2 of Broberg, Niemo, Samurokov will be playing as regulars. Skinner will be cost controlled unless he goes insane which solves our goalie issue internally. We are fine cap wise after next year.

How? Okay say we jettison, Kassian, Foegele and Barrie. We sign McLeod for 1.5 mill for 2 years, Pulju for 4.5 and Yamamoto for 4.25

This is our SIGNED roster

Hyman - McDavid - Yamamoto
Blank - Drai - Puljujarvi
McLeod - Nuge - Blank
5 blanks

Nurse - Blank
Blank - Ceci
Blank - Blank
Blank

Blank
Blank

With 25 mill for 13players including a starter. Take the starter money say 4 to be nice that’s 21 mill for 11 INCLUDING a top pairing right shot d. Say that’s 5 mill that’s 16 mill for 10 players

 

[CycloneSweep]

Eh, the cap issues can be cleaned up pretty well after that dead cap comes off next offseason, @MessierII is right. The problem is more if Nurse is going to be an albatross and also who they have in as GM at the time.

They’ll need to make sure that bottom 6 and bottom pairing guys are paid appropriately, be it through prospects taking the reigns or cheaper vets (pro scouting!)

Fair. But the other issues arise with our aging guys taking steps back. Hyman and Nuge will start to decline as early as next year. Nurse will have to be an ELITE defender suddenly and we Also have to dump Barrie, Foegele and Kassian

It’s possible I’ll say that but so many things have to absolutely go perfect for this team to be any good in the coming years. Next year will probably be a wash with how our defence looks and how much bad cap we have and players to sign.

Maybe I am over reacting but as long as Holland is the GM that is the risk we have after seeing how he has used cap space so far

 

[MessierII]

How? Okay say we jettison, Kassian, Foegele and Barrie. We sign McLeod for 1.5 mill for 2 years, Pulju for 4.5 and Yamamoto for 4.25

This is our SIGNED roster

Hyman - McDavid - Yamamoto
Blank - Drai - Puljujarvi
McLeod - Nuge - Blank
5 blanks

Nurse - Blank
Blank - Ceci
Blank - Blank
Blank

Blank
Blank

With 25 mill for 13players including a starter. Take the starter money say 4 to be nice that’s 21 mill for 11 INCLUDING a top pairing right shot d. Say that’s 5 mill that’s 16 mill for 10 players

I agree. So again if 0 prospects pan out we are in trouble.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I agree. So again if 0 prospects pan out we are in trouble.

Holloway and Broberg are our only top quality prospects that look like they might be full time NHLers in 2 seasons. Niemelainen could maybe be a bottom pairing guy next year too. Samorukov took a big step back and that’s mostly it on defence. For forwards it’s Holloway and guys who are like a minimum 2 seasons away if everything goes perfect. Mostly likely guys who might see some NHL time in 2 seasons as call ups. At the end of the day it’s a very challenging situation this year Roster is in. The moment Drai needs his extension our window is pretty closed.

 

[MessierII]

Holloway and Broberg are our only top quality prospects that look like they might be full time NHLers in 2 seasons. Niemelainen could maybe be a bottom pairing guy next year too. Samorukov took a big step back and that’s mostly it on defence. For forwards it’s Holloway and guys who are like a minimum 2 seasons away if everything goes perfect. Mostly likely guys who might see some NHL time in 2 seasons as call ups

I think one of Bourgault, Petrov or Savoie could be a middle 6er by then. Maybe more than one but I will conservatively say one. Also guys like Lavoie could fill in a bottom 6 spot cheaply. Skinner will be a back up at least by then. We have other D who could pan out to bottom pair guys by then. Either way bottom 6ers and bottom pair guys are not expensive. The big holes long term are top 4 right D (and that’s if Bouchard doesn’t get there). Top 4 left D (If Broberg doesn’t get there) and starting goalie. Nowhere near the sky is falling situation your going nuts over here.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I think one of Bourgault, Petrov or Savoie could be a middle 6er by then. Maybe more than one but I will conservatively say one. Also guys like Lavoie could fill in a bottom 6 spot cheaply. Skinner will be a back up at least by then. We have other D who could pan out to bottom pair guys by then. Either way bottom 6ers and bottom pair guys are not expensive. The big holes long term are top 4 right D (and that’s if Bouchard doesn’t get there). Top 4 left D (If Broberg doesn’t get there) and starting goalie. Nowhere near the sky is falling situation your going nuts over here.

“Bottom 6 spots aren’t hard to find” you say this like this org hasn’t had a literal garbage bottom 6 for like a decade. You just can’t throw guys in the bottom 6 and have them work. Lavoie for example is like Benson, their game is top 6 or bust, they simply don’t have the style or ability to be a bottom 6 kind of guy.

We are an org that requires a ton of what ifs to ice playoff calibre rosters because we don’t have the cap to do so otherwise. I guess unless Skinner is a legit starter next year we are screwed anyways lol

 

[MessierII]

“Bottom 6 spots aren’t hard to find” you say this like this org hasn’t had a literal garbage bottom 6 for like a decade. You just can’t throw guys in the bottom 6 and have them work. Lavoie for example is like Benson, their game is top 6 or bust, they simply don’t have the style or ability to be a bottom 6 kind of guy.

We are an org that requires a ton of what ifs to ice playoff calibre rosters because we don’t have the cap to do so otherwise. I guess unless Skinner is a legit starter next year we are screwed anyways lol

Lavoie is nothing like benson. He’s 6’4” 210 lbs and can shoot the puck. That’s like the polar opposite of benson.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Lavoie is nothing like benson. He’s 6’4” 210 lbs and can shoot the puck. That’s like the polar opposite of benson.

Okay tell me what in Lavoies game suits a bottom 6 role? Is he strong defensively? Is he a good skater? Is he physical and good in the corners? Can he or does he PK well? Being big is meaningless if it’s not used.

You know who else is big and can shoot the puck that doesn’t fit in the NHL in the bottom 6? Perlini.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

At least we're not Red Wings fans am I right?

 

[Stoneman89]

I think before we start conjecture over what the landscape will be 2 summers from now, the focus must be on the here and now, and this summer. Things can change quickly in this league and for teams. Injuries, other players shaking free, and possibly prospects taking huge leaps forward or back can all happen. In my opinion, the key pieces to sign are Kane, Yamo and Puljo. And to do that, some other pieces need to be moved. I think we all have a good idea what those are. Getting a goalie will be high on the list, as Kosko will be gone, and I'm not sure how Smith plays out. He may very well retire, or they could possibly find a home for him with a team that needs increased cap. Besides the buyouts on the books, there are certain salaries that are crippling us. Nurse and his are not going anywhere. Same with Keith. Kassian and Barrie look to be logical moves, but is Bouchard ready to man the PP? I think we need at least one to 2 solid dmen, and I'm not sure the farm is going to have any of those ready anytime soon.

 

[Stoneman89]

Okay tell me what in Lavoies game suits a bottom 6 role? Is he strong defensively? Is he a good skater? Is he physical and good in the corners? Can he or does he PK well? Being big is meaningless if it’s not used.

You know who else is big and can shoot the puck that doesn’t fit in the NHL in the bottom 6? Perlini.

Agreed. If Lavoie is going to be considered for a bottom 6 role, he'll need to adapt and change his game quite a bit. As you said, being big and having a great shot is wonderful, but we have a guy on the farm already like that in Perlini, and he simply couldn't fill a bottom 6 role with the type of player we need there. Unless a big hole pops up in the top 6, and Lavoie proves he can fill it, he will likely be trade bait. Nothing wrong with that, because you draft and develop with the end goal of either having the prospects play for your team (best scenario), or having value that you can move them for parts you need.

 

[Oilhawks]

Fair. But the other issues arise with our aging guys taking steps back. Hyman and Nuge will start to decline as early as next year. Nurse will have to be an ELITE defender suddenly and we Also have to dump Barrie, Foegele and Kassian

It’s possible I’ll say that but so many things have to absolutely go perfect for this team to be any good in the coming years. Next year will probably be a wash with how our defence looks and how much bad cap we have and players to sign.

Maybe I am over reacting but as long as Holland is the GM that is the risk we have after seeing how he has used cap space so far

I think that Nuge and Hyman were signed with the idea that they may be more suitable to be 3rd line players within the next 3-4 seasons. Nuge is already taking his place as a great 3C and special teams wizard (which is fine at his cap hit). Once the cap starts to go up, I wouldn’t be shocked if $5M is the new $3M as contracts already started escalating. They’ll have cheaper players to fill in the other top 9 spots and these two could do spot duties as well

Nurse is the wildcard and biggest risk, as many expected. I’d be shocked if they don’t clear out some contracts this offseason, and would also be shocked to see Holland as the GM by then

I think before we start conjecture over what the landscape will be 2 summers from now, the focus must be on the here and now, and this summer. Things can change quickly in this league and for teams. Injuries, other players shaking free, and possibly prospects taking huge leaps forward or back can all happen. In my opinion, the key pieces to sign are Kane, Yamo and Puljo. And to do that, some other pieces need to be moved. I think we all have a good idea what those are. Getting a goalie will be high on the list, as Kosko will be gone, and I'm not sure how Smith plays out. He may very well retire, or they could possibly find a home for him with a team that needs increased cap. Besides the buyouts on the books, there are certain salaries that are crippling us. Nurse and his are not going anywhere. Same with Keith. Kassian and Barrie look to be logical moves, but is Bouchard ready to man the PP? I think we need at least one to 2 solid dmen, and I'm not sure the farm is going to have any of those ready anytime soon.

Sensible post. Again, Nurse is the biggest question mark. They will have to find some sort of cheaper shutdown D if Kulak doesn’t work out. But it’s nice to test drive him

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

First listen to Rishaug's podcast. Really enjoy Strudwick's insight on last night's game and really think he's prime for a colour commentator gig ... if only ...

 

[BlackDogg]

At least we're not Red Wings fans am I right?

Well except for that pizza guy.

 

[Black Gold Extractor]

For anyone who is still interested, I have found one other game where the Oilers allowed 9 even-strength goals.

On January 8, 1986, the Oilers lost 11-9 to the Maple Leafs. However, it was not like the lopsided performance we saw last night: the old Oilers were outscored 9-8 at evens in that game. Gretzky had 3 goals and 3 assists and was +3 in the losing effort.

 

[ZJuice]

We are so soft. Like tiny little cocktail wieners competing in a league of hot dogs

 

[Stoneman89]

First listen to Rishaug's podcast. Really enjoy Strudwick's insight on last night's game and really think he's prime for a colour commentator gig ... if only ...

Struds is a peach, man. Used to love him on his show, and also the golf show. Funny as hell.

To the game, I found it interesting how they didn't throw the goalies in the trash can. In fact, gave them a bit of love, especially Koskinen.

 

[Stoneman89]

At least we scored lots haha. Koskinen made big saves when? He barely made any?

Shit, the Flames had TWO 2 on 1's in the first couple minutes that he stopped. No one came prepared to play any defence last night.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Struds is a peach, man. Used to love him on his show, and also the golf show. Funny as hell.

To the game, I found it interesting how they didn't throw the goalies in the trash can. In fact, gave them a bit of love, especially Koskinen.

Agree. Very funny guy. Love how he breaks down games with the credibility of having stretched out a long NHL career as a character depth defenseman. He helps take us into the mind and locker room of NHL players versus spitting out word lettuce and random statistics. Of course he/they're bang on about last night. It was a team fail that left their goaltenders repeatedly exposed to kill zone snipe opportunities.

Will give their podcast some more listens. Maybe they can pick up Rob Brown on waivers too. haha.

 

[LTIR]

Thank you Redwings.... Because of you the Oilers weren't the joke of the league for more than a day..

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Shit, the Flames had TWO 2 on 1's in the first couple minutes that he stopped. No one came prepared to play any defence last night.

Whoopie?