Number of Trades Allowed in ATD 2021?

[Hawkey Town 18]

Here's what I found in the past trade threads (counts over 5 are in red, and exactly 5 are bolded)

2017 Trade Counter
BenchBrawl 6
JFA87-66-99 3
rmartin65 3
ResilientBeast 7
jarek 4
King Forsberg 2
chaosrevolver 1
tinyzombies 1
EdmontonExpress + Yosemite Samm 8
seventieslord 3
Hawkey Town 18 4
Sprague Cleghorn 1
tonyd 2
Dreakmur 3
monsterbertuzzi 1
Cyborgs 1
Voight 1
markrander/stoneberg 1


2016 Trade Counter
87and71: 8
BenchBrawl: 7
broad: 4
Dreakmur: 3
Dwight: 1
Hawkey Town 18: 4
Iceman5: 4
jarek: 8
Johnny Engine: 1
King Forsberg: 5
monster_bertuzzi: 1
MadArcand: 2
Nalyd Psycho: 4
ResilientBeast: 5
rmartin65: 2
Rob Scuderi: 3
Shawked: 1
Stoneberg & bluesfan94: 3
tony d: 7
Velociraptor: 3

2013 Trade Counter
Mystery Alaskans: 2
Bubba's Mules: 2
Chicago Shamrocks: 5
Cincinatti Fireworks: 8
Dallas: 1
Edmonton Mercurys: 3
Guelph Platers: 1
Halifax Mooseheads: 3
Hartford Whalers: 2
Hershey: 4
Kenora Thistles: 3
Les Nordiques de Québec: 2
Minnesota Fighting Saints: 4
Montreal Canadiens: 3
New Jersey: 2
Ottawa Senators: 1
Philadelphia Firebirds: 4
Pittsburgh (BBS): 1
Pittsburgh (JFA): 1
Trail Smoke Eaters: 2
University of Alaska: 2
Vancouver Millionaires: 2
Yekaterinburg: 2

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

@BenchBrawl just noticed that both of your Championships came in trade years

 

[BenchBrawl]

@BenchBrawl just noticed that both of your Championships came in trade years

Not surprising. In 2014 and 2015 my heart was not really in the draft, and since 2017 I was more focusing on major biographies and running the draft, I wasn't as hungry to win (not that I didn't try though). In 2011 I was a rookie. So that leaves 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017 where I was at the peak of my desire to win, and IIRC they were all trade drafts. Note also that in 2016 trades ruined me (my 2nd line center situation), eventually losing to your team. I also take a lot of risks, so that either ruins me or pays off. Double-edged sword.

Also, my past background in being a flipper (seller/buyer) makes me a natural at trading, I think.

Significantly, in 2013 my biggest move was a trade I didn't make (with @TheDevilMadeMe).

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Not surprising. In 2014 and 2015 my heart was not really in the draft, and since 2017 I was more focusing on major biographies and running the draft, I wasn't as hungry to win. In 2011 I was a rookie. So that leaves 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017 where I was at the peak of my desire to win, and IIRC they were all trade drafts. Note also that in 2016 trades ruined me (my 2nd line center situation), eventually losing to your team. I also take a lot of risks, so that either ruins me or pays off. Double-edged sword.

Also, my past background in being a flipper (seller/buyer) makes me a natural at trading, I think.

Significantly, in 2013 my biggest move was a trade I didn't make (with @TheDevilMadeMe).

Yep, 2012 was as well, I just couldn't find any post that had a count of each team's no. of trades (must have been unlimited so no count was needed)

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Here's what I found in the past trade threads (counts over 5 are in red, and exactly 5 are bolded)

2017 Trade Counter
BenchBrawl 6
JFA87-66-99 3
rmartin65 3
ResilientBeast 7
jarek 4
King Forsberg 2
chaosrevolver 1
tinyzombies 1
EdmontonExpress + Yosemite Samm 8
seventieslord 3
Hawkey Town 18 4
Sprague Cleghorn 1
tonyd 2
Dreakmur 3
monsterbertuzzi 1
Cyborgs 1
Voight 1
markrander/stoneberg 1


2016 Trade Counter
87and71: 8
BenchBrawl: 7
broad: 4
Dreakmur: 3
Dwight: 1
Hawkey Town 18: 4
Iceman5: 4
jarek: 8
Johnny Engine: 1
King Forsberg: 5
monster_bertuzzi: 1
MadArcand: 2
Nalyd Psycho: 4
ResilientBeast: 5
rmartin65: 2
Rob Scuderi: 3
Shawked: 1
Stoneberg & bluesfan94: 3
tony d: 7
Velociraptor: 3

2013 Trade Counter
Mystery Alaskans: 2
Bubba's Mules: 2
Chicago Shamrocks: 5
Cincinatti Fireworks: 8
Dallas: 1
Edmonton Mercurys: 3
Guelph Platers: 1
Halifax Mooseheads: 3
Hartford Whalers: 2
Hershey: 4
Kenora Thistles: 3
Les Nordiques de Québec: 2
Minnesota Fighting Saints: 4
Montreal Canadiens: 3
New Jersey: 2
Ottawa Senators: 1
Philadelphia Firebirds: 4
Pittsburgh (BBS): 1
Pittsburgh (JFA): 1
Trail Smoke Eaters: 2
University of Alaska: 2
Vancouver Millionaires: 2
Yekaterinburg: 2

Huh, did we have a trade limit of 8, not 7?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Even in my 2017 championship team, the only reason I made so many trades is to recover from a catastrophic trade I had made early in the draft. When you look at my actual draft numbers, I was a big time loser overall.

Now 2016 on the other hand... I paid the ultimate price for building a Herbie Lewis - Cooney Weiland - Georges Armstrong (C) third line. Yeah it was a great line, but at the cost of ending with Pierre Turgeon on the 2nd line. I never recovered from that, I'm not seventieslord and this wasn't a 40 teams draft.

In my 2013 championship team, I only did 3 trades.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Huh, did we have a trade limit of 8, not 7?

Yes.

Trading is to be reasonably fair and balanced and lopsided trades will need to be re-worked or dropped. This is at the discretion of the trade committee.
Each team may make up to 8 trades.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Strictly out of curiosity, what percentage of GM’s typically used all 7 of their trades anyways? I would imagine it to be a pretty low minority, but I could be wrong.

I only took part in one trading draft so far, 3 years ago I think. But I don’t seem to recall there being a whole lot of trades overall. And I seem to remember the vast majority not really trading at all. I seem to recall maybe a group of 3-4 GM’s who were making the majority of the trades.

As you can see, it's very low.

Most people don't even make trades but if you are savvy with statistics you can engineer a lot of value with trades and that does tend to give people an advantage if they can pull it off.

I love trading. I'm a GM nut by heart. But I also realize that some don't want trading and most won't even bother with it. Having more trades inherently favors the people wheeling and dealing. Just trying to put forth the most balanced approach on this one.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Even though I remember all the complaining that happened during the draft every time we restricted trades to less than 7, and that I also take note that most (not all) longer term GMs favor 7 over 5...

I think the way you are counting votes is fair and valid.

I think 5 is honestly plenty. It gives you multiple trades for multiple portions of the draft but also forces a bit of restraint. You have fewer arrows in the quiver but still enough to make bold/safe moves.

Thanks. Yeah, if any of those folks on the far ends of the spectrum want to officially change their vote to 5 or 7, feel free to clarify.

 

[rmartin65]

Here's what I found in the past trade threads (counts over 5 are in red, and exactly 5 are bolded)

2017 Trade Counter
BenchBrawl 6
JFA87-66-99 3
rmartin65 3
ResilientBeast 7
jarek 4
King Forsberg 2
chaosrevolver 1
tinyzombies 1
EdmontonExpress + Yosemite Samm 8
seventieslord 3
Hawkey Town 18 4
Sprague Cleghorn 1
tonyd 2
Dreakmur 3
monsterbertuzzi 1
Cyborgs 1
Voight 1
markrander/stoneberg 1


2016 Trade Counter
87and71: 8
BenchBrawl: 7
broad: 4
Dreakmur: 3
Dwight: 1
Hawkey Town 18: 4
Iceman5: 4
jarek: 8
Johnny Engine: 1
King Forsberg: 5
monster_bertuzzi: 1
MadArcand: 2
Nalyd Psycho: 4
ResilientBeast: 5
rmartin65: 2
Rob Scuderi: 3
Shawked: 1
Stoneberg & bluesfan94: 3
tony d: 7
Velociraptor: 3

2013 Trade Counter
Mystery Alaskans: 2
Bubba's Mules: 2
Chicago Shamrocks: 5
Cincinatti Fireworks: 8
Dallas: 1
Edmonton Mercurys: 3
Guelph Platers: 1
Halifax Mooseheads: 3
Hartford Whalers: 2
Hershey: 4
Kenora Thistles: 3
Les Nordiques de Québec: 2
Minnesota Fighting Saints: 4
Montreal Canadiens: 3
New Jersey: 2
Ottawa Senators: 1
Philadelphia Firebirds: 4
Pittsburgh (BBS): 1
Pittsburgh (JFA): 1
Trail Smoke Eaters: 2
University of Alaska: 2
Vancouver Millionaires: 2
Yekaterinburg: 2

Thanks for putting in the work on this.

2018 was also a trade year:

BenchBrawl: 8
ImporterExporter: 6
rmartin65: 6
ResilientBeast: 4
TorontoTrades: 4
Sprague Cleghorn: 3
Velociraptor: 3
overpass: 2
jarek: 2
tinyzombies: 2
VanIslander: 2
JohnnyEngine: 2
Namba_17: 2
Stoneberg/markrander87: 2
Iceman: 2
Voight: 1
papershoes/HT18: 1
29Goalhoglung: 1
papershoes/Hawkey Town 18: 1
TheDevilMadeMe/Dreakmur: 1
Habsfan18: 1

The winners of these seasons were
2013: BenchBrawl/Sturm- 3 trades. Middle-ish of the pack in terms of trade quantity
2016: Rob Scuderi- 3 trades. Again, looks to be on the low-middle-ish side of the pack in terms of quantity.
2017: BenchBrawl- 6 trades. High-end of things in terms of quantity
2018: rmartin65- 6 trades. High-end of things in terms of quantity.

It's a small sample size, but make of that information what you will.

 

[BenchBrawl]

ATD2012 and ATD2011 had trading too. Can't find the numbers for each GM for 2012 (trading was unlimited). Found them for 2011, and there was a 3 trades limit.

Regina Pats won ATD2011, made 1 trade, so low-end.

NUMBER OF TRADES PER TEAM:

Detroit Red Wings: 2
Halifax Mooseheads: 2
Kenora Thistles: 2
Montreal AAA HC: 2
Peterborough Petes: 2
Philadelphia Firebirds: 2
San Jose Sharks: 2
Vancouver Maroons: 2
Vancouver Velocity: 2

Cleveland Barons: 1
Detroit Falcons: 1
Inglewood Jacks: 1
Niagara City Blues: 1
Regina Pats: 1 (champion)

Battle Creek Battallion: 0
Dawson City Nuggets: 0
Garnish Phantoms: 0
Guelph Platers: 0
Hartford Whalers: 0
Jokerit Helsinki: 0
Ottawa Senators: 0
Pittsburgh Bankers: 0
Springfield Indians: 0
Toronto Maple Leafs: 0
Winnipeg Falcons: 0

THESE TEAMS CAN NO LONGER TRADE:

Chicago Steelers/Trinec Steelers
Cincinnati Fireworks
Detroit Riots
Gwinnett Gladiators
Kimberley Dynamiters
McGuire’s Monsters
Minnesota Fighting Saints
Montreal Canadiens
New Haven Nighthawks
New Jersey Swamp Devils
North Pole Penguinators
Portland Pirates
Tidewater Sharks
Toronto St. Pats
Vancouver Millionaires

​

 

[Habsfan18]

Having a 5-trade limit really would add another strategic element to it all. Want to make a move? Choose wisely, you don’t have as many as you typically would..It would basically eliminate the “just for the sake of it” moves, although like others have stated it was mostly just a select few that would do that anyways.

Like I’ve stated, I wouldn’t cry either way. I’m not as “passionate” on the subject as others, and I guess it’s only natural that those who typically trade a lot would want a high limit. But for me, I think 5 is a nice solid number.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Who is @Albatros?

 

[ResilientBeast]

Seeing how many trades I made....I formally request to switch my vote to 7

 

[BenchBrawl]

Unless we can figure out who he is, Albatros' vote will certainly not count.

So with Albatros out, and RB flipping his vote, we have a 6-6 tie.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I just don't get this frantic push for 7. You can count the number of people who have used that many trades on one hand. I say this as someone who's made the most trades ever in a single draft. Right now this seems like a deliberate and coordinated attempt to switch the votes. Nothing personal against anyone so PLEASE don't go there. I simply always pause when I see votes being moved like this.

Shall I put up a new thread so we can definitively decide between 5/7?

 

[BenchBrawl]

I just don't get this frantic push for 7. You can count the number of people who have used that many trades on one hand. I say this as someone who's made the most trades ever in a single draft. Right now this seems like a deliberate and coordinated attempt to switch the votes. Nothing personal against anyone so PLEASE don't go there. I simply always pause when I see votes being moved like this.

Shall I put up a new thread so we can definitively decide between 5/7?

Coordinated how though? Only one voter moved his vote: RB. And it was not coordinated in any way.

I moved mine but it was a formality, I didn't "switch side" of the 5 vs. 7 battle. I did it before we clarified that unlimited went to 7, and that 3 went to 5.

As for Albatros, we won't allow rookies to vote on something they can't possibly judge, nevermind complete randos popping up in the section with a drive-by vote.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Unless we can figure out who he is, Albatros' vote will certainly not count.

So with Albatros out, and RB flipping his vote, we have a 6-6 tie.

@ImporterExporter
@ResilientBeast

Suggest any notes on people changing their vote, votes coming from non-participating GMs, etc. be kept in the OP so we don't lose track, as this poll is likely to remain open up until the draft is about to start.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I just don't get this frantic push for 7. You can count the number of people who have used that many trades on one hand. I say this as someone who's made the most trades ever in a single draft. Right now this seems like a deliberate and coordinated attempt to switch the votes. Nothing personal against anyone so PLEASE don't go there. I simply always pause when I see votes being moved like this.

Shall I put up a new thread so we can definitively decide between 5/7?

I think you should, just so it's cleaner.

 

[ImporterExporter]

@ted2019
@Claude The Fraud

Do you guys have a preference between 5 and 7? Since you were both in the 3 and unlimited camp.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Oh and by the way, of course since I want more trading, I will make the case in favor of more trades in this thread. FTR, people who want 5 or less also tried to argue their case, so it's fair game.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Here is the new thread to vote. 5 vs 7.

Number of Trades Allowed per GM in ATD 2021 - 5 or 7?

 

[ResilientBeast]

I just don't get this frantic push for 7. You can count the number of people who have used that many trades on one hand. I say this as someone who's made the most trades ever in a single draft. Right now this seems like a deliberate and coordinated attempt to switch the votes. Nothing personal against anyone so PLEASE don't go there. I simply always pause when I see votes being moved like this.

Shall I put up a new thread so we can definitively decide between 5/7?

?

I didn't realize that I went to 7 in a draft, I remember I made a lot frantic trading moving around seemingly at random and would rather that possibility still exist for this year after reviewing my history

 

[BenchBrawl]

?

I didn't realize that I went to 7 in a draft, I remember I made a lot frantic trading moving around seemingly at random and would rather that possibility still exist for this year after reviewing my history

Can you close this thread and this poll? Might confuse people.

 

[rmartin65]

As for Albatros, we won't allow rookies to vote on something they can't possibly judge, nevermind complete randos popping up in the section with a drive-by vote.

In my opinion, if @Albatros is interested in being a GM, he gets a vote. If he is not intending to be a GM, the vote should not count.