Now that its over...your (3?) key moves this off-season

[Volica]

A question for the trade Monahan camp, there are quite a few of you here...I loved this player, as that sneaky garbage man, "put me in the slot and watch me light the lamp" type guy. I lived through the 90's teams where we needed him and Langkow, Conroy (x2), Jokinen (x2) could never produce to near his levels. As well, up until this year, he was ahead of Mackinnon in production and in the first few years, by a lot. For 5 consecutive years, he scored 27+. If "30" is the magical marker, he hit that 3x of those 5 years and every year, at year end, he lets us know that he played through something broken.

I don't think his salary is out of whack, and so even if Lindholm and Johnny can find chemistry to become the team's first line, is Monahan and his normal scoring production, the guy to sacrifice for change?

Yes.
Simply because you have to give him prime zone starts, prime minutes and prime PP production to make that production; meanwhile he's below average in almost every other aspect of the game.

He reminds me of JVR from like 5 years ago or so. The guy was averaging like 15 minutes of ice time, a lot of it was PP, and was 30 goals a season. Now Toronto replaced those goals with Matthews who does it at an unbelievable pace, but they still were perfectly fine letting him go. That's what Calgary should be aiming for, replacing Monahan's goals with a 18 year old centre that'll produce not only that, but much more.

Goals are important, the most important part of the game, but you need the guys who play centre to do more than that.
Like, I keep pointing back at it; look at every cup champion over the past, let's say 13 years (modern NHL); and not a single team has a 1 or 2 centre that could only score goals kind of thing. They either had elite selke-level two way guys, or truly elite scorers (not just guys that pick up 30 goals, 30 assists, but guys who pick up 25+ goals and 50+ assists).

That, and his disappearing acts throughout the season are things we just can't have if we plan on ever being a contending team.

 

[Nanuuk]

A question for the trade Monahan camp, there are quite a few of you here...I loved this player, as that sneaky garbage man, "put me in the slot and watch me light the lamp" type guy. I lived through the 90's teams where we needed him and Langkow, Conroy (x2), Jokinen (x2) could never produce to near his levels. As well, up until this year, he was ahead of Mackinnon in production and in the first few years, by a lot. For 5 consecutive years, he scored 27+. If "30" is the magical marker, he hit that 3x of those 5 years and every year, at year end, he lets us know that he played through something broken.

I don't think his salary is out of whack, and so even if Lindholm and Johnny can find chemistry to become the team's first line, is Monahan and his normal scoring production, the guy to sacrifice for change?

I don't want to trade him per se. Its quite a conundrum on how to change the core. Subtly or bluntly? Keep JG or SM or both? Trade MT or keep?

Personally, I think we're a couple players short of a full deck. Maybe they can be acquired via a trade or maybe by FA.

One thing that stands out is that we are overweighted at LW and C and have been forced to play players on their off wings. The proverbial square peg in a round hole scenario. And the overweighting plugs up the pipeline from the farm.

To alleviate that imbalance, logically you would trade from a position of strength, e.g. LW or Centre, to gain players for your position of weakness.

So, if Lindholm becomes our #1 C going forward, one of the other C's in the depth chart needs to ship out to gain a RW. Or, alternatively, a LW needs to go to make the same deal unless the Flames feel they can trade for futures as they still have enough LW depth.

 

[Nanuuk]

No offense but this is just stupid, we are in the same position with those moves.

None taken. I've made dumb posts before and probably will again. I don't see your logic that we'd be in the same position though.

Greenway is a 6'6 225lb LHS Left/Right wing that can skate, score, and play physical. He's 24 years old and has another year left on his contract at 2.1M.

Rask is 6'2" 193lb LHS Centre from Sweden. Excellent skater. He is 28 and has another year left on his contract at 4.0M. Could be a 2 or 3C

Reinhart is a 6'1" 198 lb RHS Right wing/Centre. Also and excellent skater. He is 25 and is an RFA at the end of this season. Potential 2C or 1RW for the Flames.

I'm a Gio fan, but we'd be doing him a solid by giving him a shot at a cup. I'm good with keeping him as well.

We get faster, we somewhat correct an positional imbalance, and we change our core to shake things up.

 

[Dack]

Monahan isn't a better player than Langkow. If you actually compare their career stats Monahan averages about 61 points per season (and this has been going down the past two years) Langkow averages 50. Add to that Langkow's stats include an entire career; he started slower and declined over time. Add to this him being a better (much better Langkow was awesome) defensive player and playing in a far lower scoring era than Monahan.

Even looking at their top offensive seasons they look really similar in Monahan's top offensive season he had 82 points while his linemates had 99 and 78 if I'm not mistaken. Langkow's top season he had 77 points and his linemates had 77 and 94 (Huselius and Iggy right?). They're both even top 6 picks. Langkow actually once led a Phoenix team with Danny Briere and Shane Doan in scoring which is something I doubt you'll ever see Monahan do (lead his team in points). Even in 2016-2017 where Gaudreau started slow and missed 10 games with a broken hand he outproduced Monahan, who played all 82.

Peak Jokinen was way better than Monahan. Calgary never really got his peak but he was still a similar level player to Monahan in his time here. In Calgary he averaged 59 points/82 games and compared to Monahan's 61. Lower scoring era too, Iginla only put up high 60s points in some of these years.

It's time to hit the reset button. You need a real #1 center to contend (unless you're Vegas and their roster makes ours look like a joke) + Karlsson is a very good two way center and definitely underrated.

 

[Fig]

1. Flamescation
2. Less HFCF
3. ??? + Alcohol + FU Covid
= Profit????

 

[super6646]

A question for the trade Monahan camp, there are quite a few of you here...I loved this player, as that sneaky garbage man, "put me in the slot and watch me light the lamp" type guy. I lived through the 90's teams where we needed him and Langkow, Conroy (x2), Jokinen (x2) could never produce to near his levels. As well, up until this year, he was ahead of Mackinnon in production and in the first few years, by a lot. For 5 consecutive years, he scored 27+. If "30" is the magical marker, he hit that 3x of those 5 years and every year, at year end, he lets us know that he played through something broken.

I don't think his salary is out of whack, and so even if Lindholm and Johnny can find chemistry to become the team's first line, is Monahan and his normal scoring production, the guy to sacrifice for change?

He trended down badly last year and even more so now. He’s our 3rd best centre and sutter wants him more in a checking role. He has 8 pts in his last 22 games and his shot hasn’t been noticeably recovering for awhile. We might be keeping him because he has almost no appreciable value.

 

[Volica]

Monahan isn't a better player than Langkow. If you actually compare their career stats Monahan averages about 61 points per season (and this has been going down the past two years) Langkow averages 50. Add to that Langkow's stats include an entire career; he started slower and declined over time. Add to this him being a better (much better Langkow was awesome) defensive player and playing in a far lower scoring era than Monahan.

Even looking at their top offensive seasons they look really similar in Monahan's top offensive season he had 82 points while his linemates had 99 and 78 if I'm not mistaken. Langkow's top season he had 77 points and his linemates had 77 and 94 (Huselius and Iggy right?). They're both even top 6 picks. Langkow actually once led a Phoenix team with Danny Briere and Shane Doan in scoring which is something I doubt you'll ever see Monahan do (lead his team in points). Even in 2016-2017 where Gaudreau started slow and missed 10 games with a broken hand he outproduced Monahan, who played all 82.

Peak Jokinen was way better than Monahan. Calgary never really got his peak but he was still a similar level player to Monahan in his time here. In Calgary he averaged 59 points/82 games and compared to Monahan's 61. Lower scoring era too, Iginla only put up high 60s points in some of these years.

It's time to hit the reset button. You need a real #1 center to contend (unless you're Vegas and their roster makes ours look like a joke) + Karlsson is a very good two way center and definitely underrated.

Top tier goaltending, elite defence and fantastic wings can mask issues down the middle.

Flames can’t do any of that.

 

[viper0220]

None taken. I've made dumb posts before and probably will again. I don't see your logic that we'd be in the same position though.

Greenway is a 6'6 225lb LHS Left/Right wing that can skate, score, and play physical. He's 24 years old and has another year left on his contract at 2.1M.

Rask is 6'2" 193lb LHS Centre from Sweden. Excellent skater. He is 28 and has another year left on his contract at 4.0M. Could be a 2 or 3C

Reinhart is a 6'1" 198 lb RHS Right wing/Centre. Also and excellent skater. He is 25 and is an RFA at the end of this season. Potential 2C or 1RW for the Flames.

I'm a Gio fan, but we'd be doing him a solid by giving him a shot at a cup. I'm good with keeping him as well.

We get faster, we somewhat correct an positional imbalance, and we change our core to shake things up.

I think we are going sideways with those trades. This team is in such a big mess that a full rebuild is needed but with the recent UFA signings and current coach that was bought in, the rebuild will not happen for a while but at some point a rebuild will be forced down the throats of the ownership, when this team continues to suck and the ownership finds out that they can't charge top prices in the new arena* with a mediocre.


*If a new arena is build.

 

[viper0220]

Top tier goaltending, elite defence and fantastic wings can mask issues down the middle.

Flames can’t do any of that.

Not really, this team will be going up against McDavid, MacKinnon, Elias Pettersson on a regular bases and they will eat this team up.

We already tried that with Iginla, Kiprusoff and a good defense and it took us no where

 

[DomBarr]

why wait..fire Treliving...hire Gorton

 

[Mobiandi]

why wait..fire Treliving...hire Gorton

I might be in the minority with this but I don't think the Rangers have done a good job of rebuilding. And rumour has it that they're already considering shopping Kakko/Laf.

 

[Volica]

Not really, this team will be going up against McDavid, MacKinnon, Elias Pettersson on a regular bases and they will eat this team up.

We already tried that with Iginla, Kiprusoff and a good defense and it took us no where

Oh, I definitely agree.

I mean in the case of Vegas, they’ve got Stone and Patches who’ve both been dynamite for Vegas; then Wild Bill and JM... then this super mobile high scoring D... then a HoF goaltender and a Vezina backup lol.

Calgary has to hit the reset. Unless they can get Eichel or Kuznetsov in the offseason (more Eichel, not 100% sold on Kuzy) they need a hard reset.

Tinkering with this lineup won’t work. Defence is too young and shallow, not enough viable top 6 forwards, everyone underperforming.

 

[Volica]

I might be in the minority with this but I don't think the Rangers have done a good job of rebuilding. And rumour has it that they're already considering shopping Kaako/Laf.

They’re just some tinkering away IMO.

All the ingredients to be a really good team are there, to be honest.

1C
Elite 1w
1D

Potential elite 1G.

they need guys like Kakko and Laf to play up to where they can and they’ll be laughing.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

New GM and team president just dropped.

Hire them, fire Treliving.

 

[Mobiandi]

They’re just some tinkering away IMO.

All the ingredients to be a really good team are there, to be honest.

1C
Elite 1w
1D

Potential elite 1G.

they need guys like Kakko and Laf to play up to where they can and they’ll be laughing.

I think that team is still a huge work in progress.

They remind me of the Flames in the recent past. A bunch of high-end pieces who are keeping the team in the mix for a playoff spot but not enough depth or cap flexibility to push the chips in. Felt like the sky was the limit for this team when Gio was in Norris form, Backlund was a Selke-quality player, and Gaudreau had enough there alongside him to make him a top 10 scorer. All we needed was a goalie and a RW and we were set right?

And like the Flames, I don't think their pieces are going to pop at the same time. By the time Kakko/Laf figure it out, will Panarin and Zibanejad still be this good? What are they going to do about those anchors in Kreider and Trouba? How are they going to solidify their bottom 6 seeing how short they are on trade currency?

Unless the cap goes up massively and/or they win some big trades, I think they're quickly painting themselves into a corner with this new core. Meanwhile a team like the Avs seemingly has all the time in the world to grow into their contention window

 

[Thndrstruck]

Might as well go all out:

1. Find new ownership that actually want to win
2. Fire current management, hire new better management
3. Dismantle the current leadership group of Giordano, Monahan, and Backlund by trading at least the first two if not all three
4. Build through the friggin draft for the first time since the 80's

Agreed. Find someone that cares about more than money to buy the team. Also fire Todd Button! How the hell has this guy been director of amateur scouting/scouting for 20 years!

 

[Bounces R Way]

I'm not sure if they fire Treliving, I would but I don't really have any ideas on good replacements.

I may have just recently came up with an idea

 

[Ogi1Kenobi]

New GM and team president just dropped.

Hire them, fire Treliving.

I feel Gorton's success with the Rangers is a bit overrated. His biggest signings, Fox and Panarin, were a result of geography. Those guys were going nowhere, but the Big Apple. They were also gifted with the 1st overall pick last year and passed on Tim Stutzle, who I feel has a higher ceiling than Laf (way too early to tell). They also passed on Zegras (ironically a NY native), Dach and Byram, and chose Kaapo Kakko. Again it's too early to judge the pick, but I think Zegras or Byram will be the most talented out of that draft class. Kakko has been disappointing so far

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I feel Gorton's success with the Rangers is a bit overrated. His biggest signings, Fox and Panarin, were a result of geography. Those guys were going nowhere, but the Big Apple. They were also gifted with the 1st overall pick last year and passed on Tim Stutzle, who I feel has a higher ceiling than Laf (way too early to tell). They also passed on Zegras (ironically a NY native), Dach and Byram, and chose Kaapo Kakko. Again it's too early to judge the pick, but I think Zegras or Byram will be the most talented out of that draft class. Kakko has been disappointing so far

Gorton doesn't need to be a smart GM, he just needs to be smarter than the GM he's trading with. I just want Treliving gone tbh. Sutter too but they can fire him for the 23947th time in 2022.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

1) Trade Monahan and Tkachuk for Eichel (with bits and bobs to even things out)
2) Sign UFA Dougie Hamilton to 7 year deal, at dumb money
3) Extend pending UFA Johnny Gaudreau for 8 years, at dumb money

4) forget the salary cap exists
5) ....
6) Profit?

 

[HighLifeMan]

I feel Gorton's success with the Rangers is a bit overrated. His biggest signings, Fox and Panarin, were a result of geography. Those guys were going nowhere, but the Big Apple. They were also gifted with the 1st overall pick last year and passed on Tim Stutzle, who I feel has a higher ceiling than Laf (way too early to tell). They also passed on Zegras (ironically a NY native), Dach and Byram, and chose Kaapo Kakko. Again it's too early to judge the pick, but I think Zegras or Byram will be the most talented out of that draft class. Kakko has been disappointing so far

What about his stint as interim GM in boston?

From March to July of 2006 he was responsible for ;
Drafting Phil Kessel, Milan Lucic and Brad Marchand (traded up for him)
Trading Andrew Raycroft for Tuukka Rask
Signing Zdeno Chara and Marc Savard

In NY
He traded overpaid Brady Skjei for a 1st round pick
He traded for Fox and eliminated the possibility of him getting offers from every other NHL team
He traded Spooner for Strome
He got the 7th overall pick and DeAngelo for Stepan and Raanta
He got Zibanejad and a 2nd for Brassard.

His history as a GM has been massively positive.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

1. Tkachuk + Zary + Kuznetsov for Eichel
2. Monahan + 3rd for Rakell
3. Draft Guenther


Gaudreau-Eichel-Guenther
Mangiapane-Lindholm-Rakell
Dube-Backlund-Pelletier

that would be the ultimate Sutter team. So many two-way forwards. We also probably gotta sign a defencemen if Gio gets selected.

On second thought, I wonder if something around Backlund and Tkachuk for Eichel would be more realistic for Buffalo.

 

[viper0220]

1. Tkachuk + Zary + Kuznetsov for Eichel
2. Monahan + 3rd for Rakell
3. Draft Guenther


Gaudreau-Eichel-Guenther
Mangiapane-Lindholm-Rakell
Dube-Backlund-Pelletier

that would be the ultimate Sutter team. So many two-way forwards. We also probably gotta sign a defencemen if Gio gets selected.

On second thought, I wonder if something around Backlund and Tkachuk for Eichel would be more realistic for Buffalo.

How did we get Kuznetsov?

Backlund has a NTC, highly unlikely he waives for Buffalo.

Buffalo can get a better package for Eichel.

 

[viper0220]

How did we get Kuznetsov?

Backlund has a NTC, highly unlikely he waives for Buffalo.

Buffalo can get a better package for Eichel.

Monahan also has 10 time team no trade list.

 

[Ogi1Kenobi]

What about his stint as interim GM in boston?

From March to July of 2006 he was responsible for ;
Drafting Phil Kessel, Milan Lucic and Brad Marchand (traded up for him)
Trading Andrew Raycroft for Tuukka Rask
Signing Zdeno Chara and Marc Savard

In NY
He traded overpaid Brady Skjei for a 1st round pick
He traded for Fox and eliminated the possibility of him getting offers from every other NHL team
He traded Spooner for Strome
He got the 7th overall pick and DeAngelo for Stepan and Raanta
He got Zibanejad and a 2nd for Brassard.

His history as a GM has been massively positive.

I never said Gorton was a bad GM, and I'm referring to some of his moves while in New York.