Post-Game Talk: November 8 Jets @ Sens: How not to win a shootout!

[Burrowsaurus]

Because it was against Kane. He's such a rat.

He's also damn good. Want him on this team.

 

[Scrub*]

lol @ people defending Maclean for picking Greening. Really?! Greening sucks.

 

[pepty]

lol @ people defending Maclean for picking Greening. Really?! Greening sucks.

Greening made a better attempt than our top snipers.

Also after going several rounds in a pre season game he scored the shoot out winner so they know he can do it.

He was having a good game and was as good a choice as anyone else considering who was available.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Every game I've watched this season, Sens have won. Didn't watch yesterday. Crap!

At least we got a point against a western conference team. We need to win the Leafs today though.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Missed the latter part of the game but I think after reading this thread plus 5 or so pages of the GDT that people are really upset over the shootout choices

 

[Scrub*]

Greening made a better attempt than our top snipers.

Also after going several rounds in a pre season game he scored the shoot out winner so they know he can do it.

He was having a good game and was as good a choice as anyone else considering who was available.

He sucks , has been a healthy scratch all season. There is many choices better than him.

 

[Micklebot]

Greening made a better attempt than our top snipers.

Also after going several rounds in a pre season game he scored the shoot out winner so they know he can do it.

He was having a good game and was as good a choice as anyone else considering who was available.

Agreed. I thought he almost stuffed it through the five hole.

Scoring in a shootout is very difference than in game play. You can be good at one and not the other.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Agreed. I thought he almost stuffed it through the five hole.

Scoring in a shootout is very difference than in game play. You can be good at one and not the other.

Sorry Bonk, Mickle, and other like-minded logical folks, but:

 

[h2]

Boro is already better than Carkner.

Carkner was pretty solid for us. I recall some Sens fans posting a "Pronger or Carkner" thread during Carkner's first year with us, which was ridiculous. Knee injuries definitely slowed him down in his last year with us. Still, a solid bottom pairing guy.

 

[Micklebot]

So, kinda irrelevant at this point, but I just read that Perreault took the shootout attempt, he realized that his stick was broken as soon as he picked up the puck. Two questions:

1) why can't he get a replacement stick? Seems like it would only be fair

2) Is a goal scored with a broken stick even legal? I guess the argument is until it snaps, it's a good stick and so long as he doesn't play the puck after it comes apart it's all good.

The stick being broken really does explain why the shot looked so weak, and my be the reason it fooled Anderson.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

MacLean gave away a point. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

I canunderstand if it's one shooter allowed But our goalscorers all missed got stopped before greening shot. So blame them for the point. Not Maclean.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I'm not saying Greening or Michalek or Legwand were good or bad choices.

I'm saying if you're giving me a choice between "the coach probably sees these guys practice this stuff", and these kinds of responses...













... then I'll take the former, instead of the latter.

It's one thing to question the motives of a coach for the decisions he makes, but it's another thing entirely to make some of the desperately sad & ****ing awful character statements some posters around here make.

Was Greening a bad choice? Probably, yeah. Is Maclean a "fool" or a "moron", or... wait, let me go check the GDT for some more ****ing GEMS of posts we had over there:
- "****ing idiot"
- "you were an idiot"
- "MacLean is a ****ing moron."
- "Your a ****ing incompetent fool"
- "MacLean is a moron."
- "Complete and utter incompetency."

... and so on, and so forth?

My entire point was: Maclean obviously made the choices for a reason. Maybe Greening was KILLING it in practice on shootout attempts for like weeks on end. Also: Legwand is historically actually pretty good in shootouts... did anyone ever care to look at his career numbers in Nashville? Spoiler alert: it's 33%. Know what the baseline average for shootout attempts for shooters in the NHL is? ~32%.

Michalek's average is about 28%... lower than average, which is maybe why he wasn't picked for the top 3?

Anyone know what MacArthur's shootout record is? Since 2006, it's 0%. He's gone 0/13, playing with 4 different teams in that span.


What I'm saying here... how many people who called Maclean "a moron" bothered to do even a tiny amount of fact checking. You know how long it took me to find those stats? 5 minutes. If that. How many people who called him "an idiot" knows Hoffman went 1/4 in shootouts last year in the AHL for Binghamton? And that he went 1/4 the year before that for Bingo? And 1/4 the year before that? And 2/6 in his rookie year. His career MINOR LEAGUE record is 5/18 - that's ~27%, which is below NHL standards... and that's against AHL caliber goaltending.

Like, c'mon. I hate the shootout as much as the next guy, but at least I can separate the Rob Schremp Memorial Skills Event from a player's talent in a 60-minute game. Players who are excellent 60-minute guys can be balls-awful at the shootout, and vice versa: guys who couldn't play a regular shift to save their lives can sometimes be irregularly excellent at it.

I'm not saying we can't criticize the coach, but I CERTAINLY AS HELL WILL NOT be throwing him under the bus by saying he's a moron. He has stats at his disposal that I guarantee 90% of posters here didn't bother to check. He sees guys in closed practices that I guarantee 99% of posters here can't see. He's privy to information that posters here both don't have access to, and don't bother to access. What I'm saying here is: if we're going to have this discussion, let's have it in earnest and be honest about the context, and not have the typical HFSens Pile On(TM). You want to say Maclean made bad decisions in choosing the shooters? I'M TOTALLY OK WITH THAT. You want to say that Maclean is a moron, or an idiot, because he made an educated guess based on some context that he had (whether it be historical stats - which actually somewhat justify his choices - , or something he saw in practice, or whether they had advanced scouting on Pavelec - for example "he's weak high blocker side, let's get our best high blocker side shooters", or some other info we may not be privy to), well, yeah. I have a problem with that.

I'm all for challenging the coaches decisions, but I guarantee that the pile on here is unwarranted. Like, I just gave you some raw numbers. Maybe we can't trust those numbers, because of some other reason? Great, let's discuss that. At least let's argue some facts, instead of "OMFG, COACH SUXEZ". Maclean clearly had reasons for choosing the guys he did tonight, he didn't just open a fortune cookie that said "MICHALEK GREENING LEGWAND" and decided that to hell with it, I'm doing what the cookie told me to. Maybe they were bad decisions, and I think with HINDSIGHT we can say that they were... but right there, I gave you SOME rationale for the decisions, and I don't even see these guys practice. Legwand is historically FAR better in the shootout than MacArthur. Hoffman has a lower shooting percentage against minor league goaltending than the NHL average against NHL goaltending. Bang. There you go: 2 possible reasons to have made the choices he did. Were they the right choices? Maybe. Maybe not. But at least the decision, in SOME CONTEXT, makes a bit of sense.

If all a poster is going to do is call the coach a moron, and fall back on the "MMWEEEHHH, HE'S SO BAD AND ANY IDIOT CAN SEE IT" argument, and not even care to know any of the background, or consider that these decisions are made with SOME context, then I don't know what to do other than interpret the claim of the coach being a moron to be nothing other than hot air.


Also, for the record: That was Greening's 1st ever NHL shootout attempt. Use that information as you will.

Fantastic post!

 

[Alex1234]

I'm not saying Greening or Michalek or Legwand were good or bad choices.

I'm saying if you're giving me a choice between "the coach probably sees these guys practice this stuff", and these kinds of responses...







History is not everything big boy
May be hoffman was not that good in shootout in ahl
But hes evolving and right now he seems pretty accurate with his stick

May be andy was not always stellar in the past
Would you prefer brodeur in the net right because he was a monster couples year ago

Greening killing it in the practice is...

He would have a hard time deking a orange cone





... then I'll take the former, instead of the latter.

It's one thing to question the motives of a coach for the decisions he makes, but it's another thing entirely to make some of the desperately sad & ****ing awful character statements some posters around here make.

Was Greening a bad choice? Probably, yeah. Is Maclean a "fool" or a "moron", or... wait, let me go check the GDT for some more ****ing GEMS of posts we had over there:
- "****ing idiot"
- "you were an idiot"
- "MacLean is a ****ing moron."
- "Your a ****ing incompetent fool"
- "MacLean is a moron."
- "Complete and utter incompetency."

... and so on, and so forth?

My entire point was: Maclean obviously made the choices for a reason. Maybe Greening was KILLING it in practice on shootout attempts for like weeks on end. Also: Legwand is historically actually pretty good in shootouts... did anyone ever care to look at his career numbers in Nashville? Spoiler alert: it's 33%. Know what the baseline average for shootout attempts for shooters in the NHL is? ~32%.

Michalek's average is about 28%... lower than average, which is maybe why he wasn't picked for the top 3?

Anyone know what MacArthur's shootout record is? Since 2006, it's 0%. He's gone 0/13, playing with 4 different teams in that span.


What I'm saying here... how many people who called Maclean "a moron" bothered to do even a tiny amount of fact checking. You know how long it took me to find those stats? 5 minutes. If that. How many people who called him "an idiot" knows Hoffman went 1/4 in shootouts last year in the AHL for Binghamton? And that he went 1/4 the year before that for Bingo? And 1/4 the year before that? And 2/6 in his rookie year. His career MINOR LEAGUE record is 5/18 - that's ~27%, which is below NHL standards... and that's against AHL caliber goaltending.

Like, c'mon. I hate the shootout as much as the next guy, but at least I can separate the Rob Schremp Memorial Skills Event from a player's talent in a 60-minute game. Players who are excellent 60-minute guys can be balls-awful at the shootout, and vice versa: guys who couldn't play a regular shift to save their lives can sometimes be irregularly excellent at it.

I'm not saying we can't criticize the coach, but I CERTAINLY AS HELL WILL NOT be throwing him under the bus by saying he's a moron. He has stats at his disposal that I guarantee 90% of posters here didn't bother to check. He sees guys in closed practices that I guarantee 99% of posters here can't see. He's privy to information that posters here both don't have access to, and don't bother to access. What I'm saying here is: if we're going to have this discussion, let's have it in earnest and be honest about the context, and not have the typical HFSens Pile On(TM). You want to say Maclean made bad decisions in choosing the shooters? I'M TOTALLY OK WITH THAT. You want to say that Maclean is a moron, or an idiot, because he made an educated guess based on some context that he had (whether it be historical stats - which actually somewhat justify his choices - , or something he saw in practice, or whether they had advanced scouting on Pavelec - for example "he's weak high blocker side, let's get our best high blocker side shooters", or some other info we may not be privy to), well, yeah. I have a problem with that.

I'm all for challenging the coaches decisions, but I guarantee that the pile on here is unwarranted. Like, I just gave you some raw numbers. Maybe we can't trust those numbers, because of some other reason? Great, let's discuss that. At least let's argue some facts, instead of "OMFG, COACH SUXEZ". Maclean clearly had reasons for choosing the guys he did tonight, he didn't just open a fortune cookie that said "MICHALEK GREENING LEGWAND" and decided that to hell with it, I'm doing what the cookie told me to. Maybe they were bad decisions, and I think with HINDSIGHT we can say that they were... but right there, I gave you SOME rationale for the decisions, and I don't even see these guys practice. Legwand is historically FAR better in the shootout than MacArthur. Hoffman has a lower shooting percentage against minor league goaltending than the NHL average against NHL goaltending. Bang. There you go: 2 possible reasons to have made the choices he did. Were they the right choices? Maybe. Maybe not. But at least the decision, in SOME CONTEXT, makes a bit of sense.

If all a poster is going to do is call the coach a moron, and fall back on the "MMWEEEHHH, HE'S SO BAD AND ANY IDIOT CAN SEE IT" argument, and not even care to know any of the background, or consider that these decisions are made with SOME context, then I don't know what to do other than interpret the claim of the coach being a moron to be nothing other than hot air.


Also, for the record: That was Greening's 1st ever NHL shootout attempt. Use that information as you will.

History is not everything

Andy was not always stellar in the past
Would you prefer brodeur right now just because he was a monster couples years ago?

Mac is thriving right
Hes our best scorer
Why not try him

Greening "killing it in practice"?????
Are you kidding me
Guy would have a hard time deke an orange cone

 

[Micklebot]

History is not everything

Andy was not always stellar in the past
Would you prefer brodeur right now just because he was a monster couples years ago?

Mac is thriving right
Hes our best scorer
Why not try him

Greening "killing it in practice"?????
Are you kidding me
Guy would have a hard time deke an orange cone

From this preseason
[NHL]632054[/NHL]

Greening had a solid night, nothing wrong with the coach going on a hunch or trying to reward him.

 

[DylanSensFan]

I'm not saying Greening or Michalek or Legwand were good or bad choices.

I'm saying if you're giving me a choice between "the coach probably sees these guys practice this stuff", and these kinds of responses...

He also saw Lazar get a ridiculously nice shoot out goal in the rookie tournament and even in pre-season last year. He saw Stone score on two partial break-aways with a deke and saw Hoffman bust past two D and top shelf a back-hand. The evidence is there to choose the players who I dunno, have actually shown they can do it in public. I do not think MacLean is an idiot... but his decision making is questionable sometimes.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

I just want to say that Bonk just straight up schooling people and dropping the mic needs to enter the HF Sens Hall of Fame.

Just busted some raspberries. Amazing.

 

[harvey]

History is not everything

Andy was not always stellar in the past
Would you prefer brodeur right now just because he was a monster couples years ago?

Mac is thriving right
Hes our best scorer
Why not try him

Greening "killing it in practice"?????
Are you kidding me
Guy would have a hard time deke an orange cone

MAC is horrible at Shoot outs, good on Maclean giving greening a chance to contribute to the TEAM.

 

[BankStreetParade]

An analogy if I may...

Mac's picks for the shootout are a lot like weekly football pickems. You study and study and study the matchups. Some people might say pick the favorites every week. But deep down you know that there's rarely a week where all the favorites win. So then it becomes about picking underdogs to win. Finding the picks where you can gain an advantage over the other people in your pool because you were brave enough to go against the popular choice. Some weeks it works out and you look like a genius. Other weeks it doesn't and people think you're a fool. That's the price you pay to play the game.