Post-Game Talk: November 4th: Canucks @ Avs

[Steerpike]

http://www.milehighhockey.com/2014/11/5/7163449/practice-report-november-5-2014

 

[Foppa2118]

With Stuart out...Guenin to get 20+ minutes a night? So much pointing to happen!

 

[member 116861]

Haha, I never noticed him putting his hand up in a WTF? motion like he did. It makes that play so much better.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

So plan B is have the forwards do the defenseman's jobs because they can't do it?

The forwards did a lot of heavy lifting last year, in case no one remembers. But I don't think that's all it means. I think he's saying if a defenseman is in a battle, the center or the other defenseman could help them out to support them, rather than the pure man to man stuff they've been doing. At least, I hope.

 

[Foppa2118]

The forwards did a lot of heavy lifting last year, in case no one remembers. But I don't think that's all it means. I think he's saying if a defenseman is in a battle, the center or the other defenseman could help them out to support them, rather than the pure man to man stuff they've been doing. At least, I hope.

They did, and I think that was a big problem the first five or so games. They haven't quite been on last years level since then, but they've been better, and it's much more the D's fault by playing waaay below the level of last year.

I hope the forwards do well in their support, because if they don't, good passing teams will eat them alive when they leave their man/position to double team a player the D has lost a battle to.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I like how some are actually defending the forwards.

Outside of Mitchell, Berra and maybe Varly and EJ not one player has a reason to hold their head up high about the season they've had so far. Yes, the D sucks...but when the forwards have the puck it's not like they do anything with it. Dump and change...feels like the worst of the Sacco era at times.

In truth, the problem involves all aspects of the team:
1. Roy maybe needs to adjust his system. I don't think it's necessarily flawed bad but his players aren't effectively doing it or not capable of doing it...something has to give.
2. The D corpse *intended* is weak...and has to have an infusion of top end talent. I do believe Sakic and Roy tried...what can you do if the FAs won't sign with you outside of trading a Duchene or MacKinnon. I'm not so sure ROR is bringing in a top 3 D man by himself.
3. The forwards simply don't have the same drive as last season. They've lost their swagger.

There appears to be a funk around the team and I won't point fingers at individuals...because I don't have that many. Think the team needs to go get wasted, get in a bar fight, develop a little cohesive, team spirit and start over again tomorrow.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

The problem isn't just the Dmen losing battles and losing their man.

John Mitchell lost his man on Vancouver's first goal last night. Ryan O'Reilly lost his man on Vancouver's 3rd goal last night. In spite of Guenin watching a man walk in front and scoring in the Anaheim game it was Iginla that lost his man to begin with. The Dmen have plenty of faults but the forwards aren't adding much value either.

Defense is a team concept and pinning it all on the Dmen is not the right answer.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

On that 3rd goal Hedja lost his man (the guy who passed to RoRs guy who was wide open) and then desperately tried to get in front of him when he got the puck and ran straight into RoR allowing RoRs man to go free like that.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

On that 3rd goal Hedja lost his man (the guy who passed to RoRs guy who was wide open) and then desperately tried to get in front of him when he got the puck and ran straight into RoR allowing RoRs man to go free like that.

ROR's guy had kind of gotten away before they collided, but Hejda didn't help matters.

 

[RockLobster]

The problem isn't just the Dmen losing battles and losing their man.

John Mitchell lost his man on Vancouver's first goal last night. Ryan O'Reilly lost his man on Vancouver's 3rd goal last night. In spite of Guenin watching a man walk in front and scoring in the Anaheim game it was Iginla that lost his man to begin with. The Dmen have plenty of faults but the forwards aren't adding much value either.

Defense is a team concept and pinning it all on the Dmen is not the right answer.

Seeing this said a couple of times is getting a bit tiring...mostly because it doesn't excuse in ANY way Guenin's inabilty to move 1-3 feet to his right and take away the wide open lane Fowler had....just because it may have been Iginla's man to begin with doesn't mean he just has to stand there.

 

[henchman21]

Seeing this said a couple of times is getting a bit tiring...mostly because it doesn't excuse in ANY way Guenin's inabilty to move 1-3 feet to his right and take away the wide open lane Fowler had....just because it may have been Iginla's man to begin with doesn't mean he just has to stand there.

That makes the assumption that Guenin can actually move a foot... I'm not sold on that assumption.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Outside of Mitchell, Berra and maybe Varly and EJ

Maybe Varly and EJ? Tough crowd...

Mitchell hasn't even been that great, typical Mitchell minus the endless circling with the puck. His good plays even out with his bad plays for the most part.

Varly has been excellent. EJ has been a bright spot. Duchy has been working harder than any other forward out there.

Outside of those 3 we've had a forgettable start to the year.

McGinn and Berra have done better than expected.

 

[hockeyfish]

Seeing this said a couple of times is getting a bit tiring...mostly because it doesn't excuse in ANY way Guenin's inabilty to move 1-3 feet to his right and take away the wide open lane Fowler had....just because it may have been Iginla's man to begin with doesn't mean he just has to stand there.

Why move when you can just flail your stick around.

 

[Foppa2118]

That makes the assumption that Guenin can actually move a foot... I'm not sold on that assumption.

Well, based on the photo evidence above, we know he can at least move 1 ft and 1 arm.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

Seeing this said a couple of times is getting a bit tiring...mostly because it doesn't excuse in ANY way Guenin's inabilty to move 1-3 feet to his right and take away the wide open lane Fowler had....just because it may have been Iginla's man to begin with doesn't mean he just has to stand there.

Did you not read the post? I said "in spite of Guenin watching a man walk in front and scoring". That means that Guenin was to blame for not attempting to stop a man from walking in front of the net and scoring too. That puts plenty of blame on Guenin too. Nobody is trying to say Guenin did a fine job and none of it was his fault. That doesn't mean others didn't screw up as well.

The whole point is that it's not just the Dman that are screwing up. The forwards often aren't doing their jobs in the Dzone either. The entire team is failing in the Dzone with possibly the exception of Varlamov.

 

[henchman21]

Well, based on the photo evidence above, we know he can at least move 1 ft and 1 arm.

I'm only sold on his pointing ability.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

I'm only sold on his pointing ability.

Guenin is like Patton on a battle field. He's standing tall in the midst of bullets and bombs and all heck breaking loose all the while trying to direct his troops into battle and ultimately victory.

What a man! What a myth! What a legend! General Nathan Guenin.

 

[madman]

Guenin is like Patton on a battle field. He's standing tall in the midst of bullets and bombs and all heck breaking loose all the while trying to direct his troops into battle and ultimately victory.

What a man! What a myth! What a legend! General Nathan Guenin.

you're listening to NPR's feature on General Patton right now, aren't you?

 

[AslanRH]

Having 6 D is such a risk. There's just no need to take a risk like that. Just call up someone from the minors. The young guys could benefit from staying with an NHL team despite not even playing (Siemens, Lauridsen, Beaupre) and the old-guys (Noreau, Gervais, Stollery) could provide insulation. I'd love to see Beaupre playing a game in the NHL.

Going with 6 is crazy and has so much risk involved.

Is it really though right now? Any guy can be brought in within a day, and it isn't as if the Avs haven't thrown a forward back on defense before when forced to in an emergency (aah the Koci days) just as they do a defenseman to forward. It would only be a game anyway and at this point the defense is so bad it probably wouldn't even be noticeable.

 

[RockLobster]

Did you not read the post? I said "in spite of Guenin watching a man walk in front and scoring". That means that Guenin was to blame for not attempting to stop a man from walking in front of the net and scoring too. That puts plenty of blame on Guenin too. Nobody is trying to say Guenin did a fine job and none of it was his fault. That doesn't mean others didn't screw up as well.

The whole point is that it's not just the Dman that are screwing up. The forwards often aren't doing their jobs in the Dzone either. The entire team is failing in the Dzone with possibly the exception of Varlamov.

I did see the whole post, I feel like Guenin is sort of "getting a free pass" because Roy said that Fowler was Iginla's man to begin with.

And while that may be the case, it doesn't excuse Guenin's horrendous decision making there.

 

[Foppa2118]

I did see the whole post, I feel like Guenin is sort of "getting a free pass" because Roy said that Fowler was Iginla's man to begin with.

And while that may be the case, it doesn't excuse Guenin's horrendous decision making there.

Exactly. Iggy's blown coverage happened when he didn't follow Folwer down low, but that's over and done with. Guenin has a guy coming right toward him, and he's telling Iginla to get him, while he's covering literally no one and lets the guy walk right past him.

Guenin's job is to keep passes and players from going through the slot. Instead of doing what he's supposed to be doing he's busy talking to Iginla.

Iggy's mistake is only a small part of why that goal was scored. Guenin literally doing nothing but pointing, while he stands between Fowler and the net, is the reason the goal was scored. That's why it's so ridiculous that Roy called out Iginla and not Guenin.

 

[Avs]

http://www.milehighhockey.com/2014/11/5/7163449/practice-report-november-5-2014

"the bro nod of approval"

Hahaha very nice.

 

[dahrougem2]

That practice has me at least feeling a bit optimistic, if anything Roy realizes his man to man coverage in the d-zone sucks and is finally attempting to adjust a bit

 

[Foppa2118]

"the bro nod of approval"

Hahaha very nice.

Yea I was trying to figure out what that was, haha. I had some funny images in my head though of the way he was nodding.

An a separate note. How much sleep you think Patty got last night while he wasn't reviewing tape and coming up with a game plan for practice today? I'm guessing literally 0.

Nobody can take Patty's work ethic away, or how much he cares about winning. Probably puts in more hours than anyone in the NHL.

 

[Avsboy]

That practice has me at least feeling a bit optimistic, if anything Roy realizes his man to man coverage in the d-zone sucks and is finally attempting to adjust a bit

Care to elaborate?