Post-Game Talk: Nov. 11, 2016: Flyers 3 at Maple Leafs 6

[YEM]

I think Hakstol is a very competent NHL coach. Last season he got them into the playoffs,

Berube got a worse flyers team to the playoffs
Verdict is still out on Hak imo
Team as a whole looks a bit disjointed

 

[Striiker]

No coach "gets" the team to the playoffs. The players "get" themselves there. A coaches job is to do set them up for success and then get out of their way, hoping the players follow through. Whether they do or not is up to them.

 

[Rebels57]

That's an awful idea.

Let's ditch our good starter the last 3 years and pick up a much worse goalie who we have the luxury of having around next year too! Yeah, that will fix the goaltending.

There are no worse goalies than Mason and Neuvirth right now.

 

[Rebels57]

No coach "gets" the team to the playoffs. The players "get" themselves there. A coaches job is to do set them up for success and then get out of their way, hoping the players follow through. Whether they do or not is up to them.

That's what i'm not seeing, poor goaltending aside.

They are constantly unprepared to start a game and are always chasing. It's almost a guarantee we will go down by a goal in the first 5 minutes at this point. Then we just play balls to the wall offense. If we have to play defense for any sustained periods we end up buckling and getting scored on. I wonder what the longest period of time the Flyers have gone without allowing a goal this season.

 

[YEM]

No coach "gets" the team to the playoffs. The players "get" themselves there. A coaches job is to do set them up for success and then get out of their way, hoping the players follow through. Whether they do or not is up to them.

What a foolish/completely oversimplified statement
Penguins don't have another cup w/out Mike Sullivan and the brilliant job he did there last year.

 

[Striiker]

That's what i'm not seeing, poor goaltending aside.

They are constantly unprepared to start a game and are always chasing. It's almost a guarantee we will go down by a goal in the first 5 minutes at this point. Then we just play balls to the wall offense. If we have to play defense for any sustained periods we end up buckling and getting scored on. I wonder what the longest period of time the Flyers have gone without allowing a goal this season.

Slow starts has nothing to do with the coach. He can't control the players.

The coach is responsible for the system they play and the lineup. Hakstol has a good system and some poor lineup choices. But the thing is EVERY fanbase hates at least part of the coaches lineup so no point in trying to replace him for that

 

[Striiker]

What a foolish/completely oversimplified statement
Penguins don't have another cup w/out Mike Sullivan and the brilliant job he did there last year.

That's more of a "coach got out so of the way" situation. Sullivan didn't magically fix that team by giving them some kind of magic secret enhancements, he just stopped doing the detrimental **** the last coach was doing.

But hey, you know better, right? The coach is actually sitting on the bench with a remote control, playing it like a video game. He's scoring goals, making the defensive plays, stopping the puck. Yup, you're right.

 

[Rebels57]

Slow starts has nothing to do with the coach. He can't control the players.

The coach is responsible for the system they play and the lineup. Hakstol has a good system and some poor lineup choices. But the thing is EVERY fanbase hates at least part of the coaches lineup so no point in trying to replace him for that

Having the team mentally and physically prepared to play the game the right way as soon as the puck drops is not part of a coachs responsibility?

 

[Striiker]

Having the team mentally and physically prepared to play the game the right way as soon as the puck drops is not part of a coachs responsibility?

These guys are adults... what could the coach realistically say to them to get them to start better...? What control does he have over that?

 

[YEM]

That's more of a "coach got out so of the way" situation. Sullivan didn't magically fix that team by giving them some kind of magic secret enhancements, he just stopped doing the detrimental **** the last coach was doing.

What a foolish/completely oversimplified statement

 

[Striiker]

What a foolish/completely oversimplified statement

And yet it's apparently still too complicated for you. yikes.

Feel free to tell me why it's wrong instead of just saying it is. I mean, we both know you can't but it'd be funny if you tried. Maybe tell me how they got hot at the right time, or he made them faster skaters, or maybe how they had 3 scoring lines because of their stacked roster, or how their goalie played well. Any of those thanks to the coach?

 

[Rebels57]

These guys are adults... what could the coach realistically say to them to get them to start better...? What control does he have over that?

Maybe they are not preparing adequately for their opponents (scouting, video, etc) and are instead adjusting on the fly throughout the course of the game? That would certainly explain the terrible 1st periods.

 

[Striiker]

Maybe they are not preparing adequately for their opponents (scouting, video, etc) and are instead adjusting on the fly throughout the course of the game? That would certainly explain the terrible 1st periods.

Ehhh I don't think so. Doesn't seem like they're surprised by opponents so much as individual players (usually in net) screw up and put us in a hole.

 

[Rebels57]

Ehhh I don't think so. Doesn't seem like they're surprised by opponents so much as individual players (usually in net) screw up and put us in a hole.

Okay so then if that is the only explanation, why are players making MORE mistakes than the last 3/4 of last season?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Ghost factor + excellent goaltending got them into the playoffs last year. They were a mess until Ghost came up and blew the doors off the league.

1LW is not really an issue whatsoever in their struggles. Not sure where that is even coming from. What is an issue is Hakstol wasting games attempting to utilize Schenn as 3C which was bound to fail when he should have playing through his rust at 1LW. He is coming off of a great season and was extended to be the 1LW. Use him as such. He was back there last night but since we lost i'm sure we will see more pointless line-juggling by a coach in over his head.

I keep hearing all of this "but Hakstol has a great system."

How great can it be when they are getting torched for between 4 and 6 goals every night? Some are on goaltending. Some are on defensive breakdowns, but defensive zone coverage is part of the coachs system as well, not just the forecheck, neutral zone pressure and breakout. That's where he is failing. He needs to get them to tighten up and hasn't been able to.

15 games into the season, everyone is now healthy except Gordon, and we still have not seen our best possible lineup a single time.

I agree the Flyers don't make the playoffs last season without Ghost getting called up and being phenomenal and without Neuvirth and Mason providing excellent netminding.

That said, the team started the season in a hole because Ghost was in the minors; guys like Couturier, Streit, and Del Zotto missed significant chunks of time due to injury on an already thin team; Voracek was out of shape and way off his game; they didn't have Konecny; they had Schultz play 81 games; Read was terrible; Gagner played over 50 games...

Don't you think Hakstol deserves *some* credit for being the head coach of a very thin team that surprisingly made the playoffs? I do.

 

[Tripod]

There are no worse goalies than Mason and Neuvirth right now.

Using a sample size of this year...yes. I prefer to us a bigger sample size where both have been better than Niemi for years.

And even if neither of Mason or Neivirth rebound, instead of having a clean slate to start next year, adding Niemi for next year is a dumb move.

 

[Rebels57]

Using a sample size of this year...yes. I prefer to us a bigger sample size where both have been better than Niemi for years.

And even if neither of Mason or Neivirth rebound, instead of having a clean slate to start next year, adding Niemi for next year is a dumb move.

I'm not denying that..just saying..they all suck lol

 

[Curufinwe]

They have to have a goalie under contract to protect Stolarz.

 

[Striiker]

Okay so then if that is the only explanation, why are players making MORE mistakes than the last 3/4 of last season?

They made the same amount of mistakes, maybe even more, but the difference was we had goalies then.

 

[Rebels57]

They have to have a goalie under contract to protect Stolarz.

**** yeah that's right. Plus if they did go with Stolarz as the #1 next year, they would need a solid veteran back-up.

Would a Stolarz-Niemi duo be any worse than what we are getting this year so far? Definitely not. But, can Mason-Neuvirth rebound to the form they showed last year and how long can we wait before it jeopardizes our season.

 

[schenneuf]

Maybe a Nylander for Provorov trade makes sense?

 

[Curufinwe]

**** yeah that's right. Plus if they did go with Stolarz as the #1 next year, they would need a solid veteran back-up.

Would a Stolarz-Niemi duo be any worse than what we are getting this year so far? Definitely not. But, can Mason-Neuvirth rebound to the form they showed last year and how long can we wait before it jeopardizes our season.

Another month of this garbage and they won't make the playoffs.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Maybe they are not preparing adequately for their opponents (scouting, video, etc) and are instead adjusting on the fly throughout the course of the game? That would certainly explain the terrible 1st periods.

but this isn't a new problem. coming out with poor 1st periods and looking unprepared to play. We saw it under Lavy, Berube and now with Hak.
so this is not a coaching issue IMO. This is on the players. It is a fair argument to have that some of the players on this team are just slow starters and aren't ready to come out for the start.
Yeah I know we obviously cant have 100 percent effort for 60 or more minutes every damn night. you are going to have lapses in play. even the great teams have that. But this does seem to be a reoccurring issue over how many years now?

 

[Rebels57]

Maybe a Nylander for Provorov trade makes sense?

Nope.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Maybe a Nylander for Provorov trade makes sense?

how? scoring is not an issue with this team. I like Nylander. He is going to be good, but not at the expense of our best defensive prospect and right now the Flyers best defenseman.