Not saying we're going to win the cup next year but...

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
16,769
10,419
Pietra will solve a lot of problems for the Leafs, but he was not the one piece that Leafs needs to still be playing now nor would win the Cup.
Their problem is they could not score nor defend.
Leafs is built to score but they couldn't for pretty much 3 of the 5 games. Stacking the lines is one thing, but the playoffs is about balance and the top 4 need to play on THREE different lines. Their individual stats might not be as good but I think the team will be better. If you look around the league, there are only a few teams with their top 4 players outscoring our top four. But having 6pts among your top 3 players in a game might only mean 2 goals scored bc they all played on the same line.
Being making any trades. Keefe needs to figure out how to split the Big 4 and which pieces he has on the team that would be the most productive playing with Marner, JT, Willie or AM. Part of having elite talents like our Big four is to spread them out in order to take advantage of opposing bottom pairings and 3/4th lines. Jones and Werenski might play 30 mins, and PLD might play another 20mins, but that still leave 10mins in a game where(if the Big 4 is split into 3 lines) for one of those lines to take advantage.
IF the optimal is AM, Hyman and Marner, then find out who fits best with JT and do the same for Willie. This might need a camp or a few months in but at the same time Keefe coached all of them either with the Marlies or the Leafs. He should have a pretty good idea how each piece could fit. Since Dubas needs to trade at least 2 of the supporting cast-Engvall, Kerfoot, Soup, Kap, and AJ for Dman, Keefe wont be able to have a trail and error approach.
As for defense, they just need someone who is not a liability in the back.
Most importantly, they vets who can come in and calm the team and give confidence to the team.
 

EGL22

Registered User
Mar 20, 2018
230
358
One of the most common comparisons is to the Blackhawks.
Good young talented team rising up slowly and surely adding pieces they needed along the way and then winning in the playoffs showing they were almost there.
The time came to use picks/prospects to add the final couple of pieces and keep the core together and boom 3 cups.
Along the way the cap took pieces but they filled in the spots because the core was strong.

Now the difference with the Leafs is our core decided they were the shit and demanded their huge paydays now and so what if we have no cash left for depth.
If Kane,Toews and Keith did that maybe they never win one.
But they did the step by step and took I think 6,6,5 and cashed in like most others on the next contract.

If our clowns took the going rates for the next step like 6,7,9 what kind of extra talent could we have added now and over the next 3 years with the extra 7 mil.
That extra also means not giving away the 1st for removing Marleau,we would have had the cash.

In the 4 step process,rebuild,get experience,add pieces,serious contender greed took away add pieces,we will have to remove pieces, and what we have is not enough to get it done.

Remember Dubas and Shanny and their our guys know that it is about the team and we are confident in signing all 3 at reasonable contracts and they understand the team discount helps build solid teams.
Remember the stunned look on their faces during the Nylander talks and the speeches about how can he do that,what about being a team guy,we thought they understood.

Too many me first guys,some have to go and the ones brought in have to be about the team.
 
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Mickey Marner

Registered User
Jul 9, 2014
19,601
21,317
Dystopia
Here's hoping our management can replace the O'Reilly they traded away and stumble upon a #1G making league minimum too. I'll also take one Colton Parayko for good measure.
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
14,232
4,143
Guelph
Three straight seasons of declining regular season points percentage? Check
Fire the coach? Check
Miss the playoffs? Check*
Have another team use your lottery pick in the low teens because of a cap shedding deal the summer prior? Check
Didn't have a first rounder last year because of a trade for an impact player that re-signed? Check

Pretty bleak right?

This is the Blue's circa June 2018


Now, it didn't just happen for them.
At the deadline they moved a fairly high end C rather than re-signing him to recoup futures

then in the off-season they made a major splash, dealing yet more futures plus to middle of the roster players in a cap in cap out deal for a team complexion changing impact player

Two trades.

Oh boy. Imagine these boards when we're in last place in January.
 
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JT AM da real deal

Registered User
Oct 4, 2018
12,179
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Petrol will not solve this teams problems on his own ... he would be a huge add on defense but at cost of getting another Muzzy which would still be REQUIRED ... best to add Edmundson and Gudas on lower cost deals and we will get enough defense and toughness to get by ... swop out Murray for Freddy and bring up Sandin ... Rielly Edmundson ... Muzzy Gudas to shut down properly and Dermy/Sandin and Holl as 5th/6th and 7th ... we need to keep Holl around as injuries will happen
 

Cobra777

Registered User
Jun 26, 2018
732
662
Wasaga Beach
Three straight seasons of declining regular season points percentage? Check
Fire the coach? Check
Miss the playoffs? Check*
Have another team use your lottery pick in the low teens because of a cap shedding deal the summer prior? Check
Didn't have a first rounder last year because of a trade for an impact player that re-signed? Check

Pretty bleak right?

This is the Blue's circa June 2018


Now, it didn't just happen for them.
At the deadline they moved a fairly high end C rather than re-signing him to recoup futures

then in the off-season they made a major splash, dealing yet more futures plus to middle of the roster players in a cap in cap out deal for a team complexion changing impact player

Two trades.
Getting their goaltender a diamond in the rough Binnington. pushed this team to success
 

Cobra777

Registered User
Jun 26, 2018
732
662
Wasaga Beach
I'd say the patron saint of staying the course and not over-reacting.
You cannot win anything when other teams defense NEVER pay a price to retrieve a puck in their own corners or any other position on the opposing team for that matter. Every other series I watch in every playoffs yrs past and this present, every player skilled and plug finishes their checks and makes the other team pay to have the puck its a far cry from the pond hockey we are used to.
 
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ruaware41

Typical
Oct 22, 2019
1,589
1,553
Is there any particular reason Bozak could never make a hit half as intense as this on Toronto?



There's a culture issue here in all likelihood.
 
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Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
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Petrol will not solve this teams problems on his own ... he would be a huge add on defense but at cost of getting another Muzzy which would still be REQUIRED ... best to add Edmundson and Gudas on lower cost deals and we will get enough defense and toughness to get by ... swop out Murray for Freddy and bring up Sandin ... Rielly Edmundson ... Muzzy Gudas to shut down properly and Dermy/Sandin and Holl as 5th/6th and 7th ... we need to keep Holl around as injuries will happen
Edmundson in our top pair? ohhhhh myyy
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
i ship out 10m in cap space with kerf/kappy/Johns,,3 small ish or play small ish in the POs

that opens up the 3rd line to change it's tone/flavor and the cap space needed to fit a AP.
 

Luminiferous

Registered User
Oct 11, 2018
667
525
It's like comparing dog shit to a diamond, because they both may sparkle under the sun. Ever see those big ol hunks of dog shit glistening in the sun ? Yeah, that's the Leafs. Idk what is worse, fans of dog shit, or the dog shit itself.
 
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The Podium

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
22,956
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Toronto
I don't know what's more ridiculous:
  • Comparing this Leafs team to the Raptors
  • Comparing this Leafs team to the Blues

I think the point of this thread is that everyone is a failure until they are not.

How quick people forget what was said about the Raptors and Blues. They were both mentally weak playoff failures whose fans were ready to blow the core. Sure the team blueprint were different, but you’re only lying to yourself if you say “they were built for the playoffs and everyone knew it”
 
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The Podium

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
22,956
10,218
Toronto
i ship out 10m in cap space with kerf/kappy/Johns,,3 small ish or play small ish in the POs

that opens up the 3rd line to change it's tone/flavor and the cap space needed to fit a AP.

I like where you started, not where you ended. Unless AP is looking for a short term deal I wouldn’t consider it. But yes 10 mill for a 3rd line is the 5th most expensive in the league. That money can be used better or elsewhere. We need some high energy low cap players who can contribute on both ends, like a Sean Kuraly, Liam Foudy, etc.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
30,069
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I think the point of this thread is that everyone is a failure until they are not.

How quick people forget what was said about the Raptors and Blues. They were both mentally weak playoff failures whose fans were ready to blow the core. Sure the team blueprint were different, but you’re only lying to yourself if you say “they were built for the playoffs and everyone knew it”

While your main point is valid, I don't think the Raptors are the best example as I don't think anyone ever took them seriously as contenders before Kahwi arrived. STL though, they were a very good team with some playoff success before winning the ultimate prize.
 
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Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,755
11,041
While your main point is valid, I don't think the Raptors are the best example as I don't think anyone ever took them seriously as contenders before Kahwi arrived. STL though, they were a very good team with some playoff success before winning the ultimate prize.
With the exception of last years goaltending, St. Louis probably had better teams that didn’t win compared to the team that did.
Skill alone isn’t enough.
There is no spreadsheet for the right mix.
 

DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
32,299
49,926
It's like comparing dog shit to a diamond, because they both may sparkle under the sun. Ever see those big ol hunks of dog shit glistening in the sun ? Yeah, that's the Leafs. Idk what is worse, fans of dog shit, or the dog shit itself.
Wonderful imagery.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
30,069
22,499
With the exception of last years goaltending, St. Louis probably had better teams that didn’t win compared to the team that did.
Skill alone isn’t enough.
There is no spreadsheet for the right mix.

They arguably had to a tougher road to the cup in the years when the West was dominant so maybe it wasn't so much them getting over some imaginary hump but rather the fact that that CHI and LA regressed.

Sometimes two really good teams both play and one has to lose. Sometimes a few bounces is the difference. And sometimes skill is the difference, one team just has a little bit more. Anyhow, I remember them playing well, battling hard and losing to some really good teams back when the West was dominating. I never thought lack of character or not having the right mix was the issue, they were just a lot of tough teams they had to beat which was a tall order.
 

JT AM da real deal

Registered User
Oct 4, 2018
12,179
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Edmundson in our top pair? ohhhhh myyy
He is big fast and is tough and he plays 100% to prevent goals against ... he can play either side left or right ... da Canes really miss him on da toughness factor against Bruins they are cycling too easy ... he is like adding Chiarot like Habs did on their #1 pairing with Weber for a reasonable price which I suggested Leafs do last year which we slept on ... sometimes people miss da simple stuff ... they want da big name when really what we need is some who eats sleeps and sh*ts not getting scored on and has da physical skills to make it happen ... add in Gudas and we have a vet defender group with Muzzy that no one wants to play against ... we get proper mix of vets and rooks and proper mix of puck movers and defender and proper mix of size and intimidation
 

robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
23,469
15,606
Love the optimism, hopefully we look back at this thread someday and think how crazy things are that it actually happened!
 

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