Northlands to eliminate horse racing

[rboomercat90]

The sheer stupidity of this clause.

"for the purpose of sports and entertainment" is such an overly general term that it ensures the city can't help the area other than demolish Rexall.

Brilliant, Stephen Mandel.

Mandel wasn't an idiot. He just wasn't representing the side most people thought he was.

 

[Replacement*]

Mandel wasn't an idiot. He just wasn't representing the side most people thought he was.

Oh, we know full well who he was representing. He's no idiot. But in this regard he wasn't acting on citizens plurality either.

But yep. That all encompassing clause should never have been agreed to as is the case with many of the agreements pertaining to this project.

That city council was practically cheering for Katz with Krushell practically wearing pom poms.

Where is she now...

 

[Replacement*]

Replacement...........When you say "oral".........I take it to mean word of mouth or passed on from generation to generation?

We are talking in the same neighborhood.........I say "art form" because you cannot learn "handicapping" just by reading a book or by learning online from a computer.

The finer points takes years of experience and requires lots of learning by "trial and error".

Plus there is no one method to picking horses.......there are many methods......speed handicapping, pace handicapping, trip handicapping or combinations of all.

That's why I call it a lost art.....there is no one easy answer that you can look up on Google. There are many methods.

I can show you how to paint a picture............but I cannot make you an Artist.

My point is that such things as "Pool hustling" would be similarly a dying art because people do not devote to the craft, everything behind it, philosophy, etc. So instead of Paul Newman we get Tom Cruise if that.

I agree with what you are saying, just that its a much broader ohenomenon. Wisdom, period, isn't passed down anymore and one of the reasons for that might even be that elders are less respected, that lineage, heritage, are less respected or considered completely irrelevant. That there just is very limited generational listening going on.

New technology has a large role in this btw. Technology, and device, has become the new electronic wisdom. mediums are not people based now, they are device based.

maybe if there was a horse picking app.

 

[Senor Catface]

So no one is talking about Northlands or Horse Racing?

 

[shoop]

So no one is talking about Northlands or Horse Racing?

Only four or five posts before yours before the thread got off track.

 

[joestevens29]

What a laughable scam katz pulled on this dumb ass city. Council then and now is filled with a bunch of utter buffoons.

Be interesting to see what Katz does. I can't see him being opposed to the plans that are currently set for Rexall place. But like the article says the 5k arena at the Expo center could be something he's against and could hold his ground just so Northlands doesn't make that arena.

 

[Gord]

So no one is talking about Northlands or Horse Racing?

we are talking about northlands, and the plan the presented when the announced horse racing is gone. so yes.

but that also brings into the debate that much of what northlands wants to do they can't because a clause the city signed with katz.

 

[rosemount289]

My bone to pick with...........???

My bone to pick with Northlands is that they forget who they ARE!

Northlands is suppose to be a non-profit organization.......their existence is suppose to enhance agriculture for the good of the city of Edmonton. Not to make a lot of MONEY.

What do they charge for car parking on hockey nights?

They hire outsiders to be CEO and their bonuses are based on the bottom line.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

My bone to pick with Northlands is that they forget who they ARE!

Northlands is suppose to be a non-profit organization.......their existence is suppose to enhance agriculture for the good of the city of Edmonton. Not to make a lot of MONEY.

What do they charge for car parking on hockey nights?

They hire outsiders to be CEO and their bonuses are based on the bottom line.

They cost an arm and a leg for parking, good and everything and other then the expo center itself, the ground are a disaster.

The area they build outdoor concert stages for festivals there is so unlevel it's gross

 

[rosemount289]

The thing is that...............???

They cost an arm and a leg for parking, good and everything and other then the expo center itself, the ground are a disaster.

The area they build outdoor concert stages for festivals there is so unlevel it's gross

The thing is that they say horse racing is losing money so lets get rid of it.

But how about all the spin off businesses?....for example....Colors Restaurant is full on racing nights.........are they losing money (or how much are they making in profit?)........the Casino is sparsely attended on non race nights but on race nights it is busy.......how much is Northlands making those nights?

Around December....and race nights....lots of Companies hold their Xmas party banquets and they rent out the party rooms.......again how much is Northlands making on those nights?

That's what I mean when I hear the CEO say they are losing money on one side of the ledger but they do not tell you the whole story.

 

[Gord]

My bone to pick with Northlands is that they forget who they ARE!

Northlands is suppose to be a non-profit organization.......their existence is suppose to enhance agriculture for the good of the city of Edmonton. Not to make a lot of MONEY.

What do they charge for car parking on hockey nights?

They hire outsiders to be CEO and their bonuses are based on the bottom line.

who says they are making profit? are you on the board?

maybe the money the make charging for parking helps them break even.
I'd rather have them charge people using the facility parking then to have more money come from my taxes.

 

[shoop]

who says they are making profit? are you on the board?

maybe the money the make charging for parking helps them break even.
I'd rather have them charge people using the facility parking then to have more money come from my taxes.

It's publicly available information. They haven't released their results for fiscal 2015 yet.

For the fiscal year ended Dec. 31, 2014 they reported a profit of ~$2.3M.

If parking revenue is more than $2.3M a year then that's a pretty big deal.

Looking at Northlands' financial statements is interesting. In 2014 Northlands received a $7.4M grant from Horse Racing Alberta. Not sure how much their expenses will fall without horse racing, but that's a pretty massive loss in revenue to make up.

 

[rosemount289]

Shoop...where.......???

It's publicly available information. They haven't released their results for fiscal 2015 yet.

For the fiscal year ended Dec. 31, 2014 they reported a profit of ~$2.3M.

If parking revenue is more than $2.3M a year then that's a pretty big deal.

Looking at Northlands' financial statements is interesting. In 2014 Northlands received a $7.4M grant from Horse Racing Alberta. Not sure how much their expenses will fall without horse racing, but that's a pretty massive loss in revenue to make up.

Where can I obtain a copy of those financials? Is it online?

Thanks!

 

[Replacement*]

Where can I obtain a copy of those financials? Is it online?

Thanks!

here you go;

http://www.northlands.com/about-us/annual-report/

 

[Replacement*]

who says they are making profit? are you on the board?

maybe the money the make charging for parking helps them break even.
I'd rather have them charge people using the facility parking then to have more money come from my taxes.

The reality is they don't report a *profit* due to massive revenue losses and extreme financing costs.

Not the way I'd run a business.

In anycase the profit reported is not a net profit at least in terms of accounting I'd be allowed by CRA to pull off....

 

[shoop]

The reality is they don't report a *profit* due to massive revenue losses and extreme financing costs.

Not the way I'd run a business.

In anycase the profit reported is not a net profit at least in terms of accounting I'd be allowed by CRA to pull off....

Wow. I always suspected you were talking out of your butt on some of your hockey knowledge. Your last post is truly laughable.

I 100% know you have no clue what you are talking about with respect to these financial statements.

Per page six of the statements "These financial statements have been prepared in accordance with Canadian accounting standards for not-for-profit organizations."

These statements were signed off by Ernst & Young. A worldwide firm with revenue of $28 Billion in 2015. I would guess any of the E&Y partners in Edmonton alone would make far, far more money than you do.

But you somehow have more knowledge than this firm?

Your assessment truly is laughable. The 'extreme' financing costs are actually quite reasonable. Debt repayment costs of ~3.2% of gross revenue aren't extreme by any measure and no designated accountant would call them such.

The most ridiculous thing is that there are much larger red flags in these statements then your ridiculous objections.

As I said in an earlier post, the biggest question coming out of these statements is how much of a hit the elimination of horse racing has on the organization. Not enough detail in these statements to gather that.

Thank you for the unintentional comedy. Truly brought a smile to my face.

 

[Replacement*]

Wow. I always suspected you were talking out of your butt on some of your hockey knowledge. Your last post is truly laughable.

I 100% know you have no clue what you are talking about with respect to these financial statements.

Per page six of the statements "These financial statements have been prepared in accordance with Canadian accounting standards for not-for-profit organizations."

These statements were signed off by Ernst & Young. A worldwide firm with revenue of $28 Billion in 2015. I would guess any of the E&Y partners in Edmonton alone would make far, far more money than you do.

But you somehow have more knowledge than this firm? And the CRA who actually did sign off on these financial statements?

Your assessment truly is laughable. The 'extreme' financing costs are actually quite reasonable. Debt repayment costs of ~3.2% of gross revenue aren't extreme by any measure and no designated accountant would call them such.

The most ridiculous thing is that there are much larger red flags in these statements then your ridiculous objections.

As I said in an earlier post, the biggest question coming out of these statements is how much of a hit the elimination of horse racing has on the organization. Not enough detail in these statements to gather that.

Thank you for the unintentional comedy. Truly brought a smile to my face.

Relax. I was talking tongue in cheek obviously. Northlands obtained at least 20M in grants in 2014 in a year in which they reported a net profit of 2M.

We could get them operate a large trailer park and have Ricky and Lucy run it and they'd probably have a better bottom line. Would be more entertaining anyway.

Would be nice to get 20M/yr in grant money I guess.

Northlands making any profit, at least in laymans terms, or concept thereof, is laughable.

I hope you feel better after all your harrumphing above.

 

[shoop]

Relax. I was talking tongue in cheek obviously. Northlands obtained at least 20M in grants in 2014 in a year in which they reported a net profit of 2M.

We could get them operate a large trailer park and have Ricky and Lucy run it and they'd probably have a better bottom line. Would be more entertaining anyway.

Would be nice to get 20M/yr in grant money I guess.

Northlands making any profit, at least in laymans terms, or concept thereof, is laughable.

I hope you feel better after all your harrumphing above.

You very rarely get called out here as eloquently as I did. The harrumphing still stands. If you do want to pull someone's chain on financial statements PM me and I'll show you how to do it more credibly.

The real question comes from that big grants they get from Alberta Agriculture and Horse Racing Alberta.

Obviously the Horse Racing Alberta grant disappears when the track disappears. I suspect that 'grant' is really just how Northlands records their share of the handle. How much of the expense related to that grant will Northlands still incur even after the horses are gone?

Don't think the grant from Alberta Ag will be cut. NDP government and all.

Not-for-profits in general aren't run too efficiently. Not just related to Northlands. That's why I don't want to see Northlands get more money for a concert venue of questionable need.

 

[Replacement*]

You very rarely get called out here as eloquently as I did. The harrumphing still stands. If you do want to pull someone's chain on financial statements PM me and I'll show you how to do it more credibly.

The real question comes from that big grants they get from Alberta Agriculture and Horse Racing Alberta.

Obviously the Horse Racing Alberta grant disappears when the track disappears. I suspect that 'grant' is really just how Northlands records their share of the handle. How much of the expense related to that grant will Northlands still incur even after the horses are gone?

Don't think the grant from Alberta Ag will be cut. NDP government and all.

Not-for-profits in general aren't run too efficiently. Not just related to Northlands. That's why I don't want to see Northlands get more money for a concert venue of questionable need.

Its all good. I thought it was more clear I was talking tongue in cheek. Automatically if I use an ellipsis at the end of something I'm stating I'm not to be taken seriously. Really I thought that was common usage of the ellipsis. But apparently not so common. mybad



All jk aside though if a firm is taking in 20M in grants and reporting 2M income doesn't this ever attract some specific attention from CRA or IRS? I assume you are into accounting and might be privy.

sorry in anycase for talking out of my league.

I actually generally have supported Northlands in these debates but it becomes harder to do so each time they are asking for handouts. jmo

 

[shoop]

Its all good. I thought it was more clear I was talking tongue in cheek. Automatically if I use an ellipsis at the end of something I'm stating I'm not to be taken seriously. Really I thought that was common usage of the ellipsis. But apparently not so common. mybad

All jk aside though if a firm is taking in 20M in grants and reporting 2M income doesn't this ever attract some specific attention from CRA or IRS? I assume you are into accounting and might be privy.

sorry in anycase for talking out of my league.

I actually generally have supported Northlands in these debates but it becomes harder to do so each time they are asking for handouts. jmo

I'll preface this in that I am talking in generalities and don't have any specific experience with Northlands.

I don't think Northlands statements would catch CRA's eye for any reason. The CRA's role is not to question the grant money coming in other than to ensure the recipient is in the 'business' of whatever money is coming in. (In this case agricultural yada yada and horse racing.) As for a surplus after the fact? If the granting body doesn't care the CRA wouldn't really either.

There is enough other stuff going on in terms of revenues and expenses that the amount of the grant money (or the 'profit') doesn't jump out at me either.

I completely agree with you on Northland's incessant request for handouts. Their raison d'etre is becoming less apparent. Horse racing was definitely part of agricultural promotion, as is K-Days.

I would guess they are trying to get this money due to some sort of cultural justification.

 

[Pourinthecoal]

Back on topic, I like the idea. It offers something new to the city and horse racing isnt my thing. If it's an area that could seat as some saying 70-100,000 people that would be a great venue for outdoor festivals - they've been kicked out of the country, the football field is needed for football, and to have the ability to hold festivals on that level (or smaller) appeals to me as a consumer of entertainment. All for it

 

[rosemount289]

As a fan..............???

Back on topic, I like the idea. It offers something new to the city and horse racing isnt my thing. If it's an area that could seat as some saying 70-100,000 people that would be a great venue for outdoor festivals - they've been kicked out of the country, the football field is needed for football, and to have the ability to hold festivals on that level (or smaller) appeals to me as a consumer of entertainment. All for it

As a fan, I would appreciate it too but only for two hours worth of entertainment.

Since those type of crowds come once every five or six years (maybe) is it worth it for two hours worth of entertainment?......but if your have to pay higher taxes every year to subsidize such a stadium and it sits empty the rest of the year (or not filled to capacity).....are you not looking at a "white elephant"?

 

[shoop]

As a fan, I would appreciate it too but only for two hours worth of entertainment.

Since those type of crowds come once every five or six years (maybe) is it worth it for two hours worth of entertainment?......but if your have to pay higher taxes every year to subsidize such a stadium and it sits empty the rest of the year (or not filled to capacity).....or you not looking at a "white elephant"?

Bingo.

That's a perfect rationale for why this should not be approved.

 

[rboomercat90]

As a fan, I would appreciate it too but only for two hours worth of entertainment.

Since those type of crowds come once every five or six years (maybe) is it worth it for two hours worth of entertainment?......but if your have to pay higher taxes every year to subsidize such a stadium and it sits empty the rest of the year (or not filled to capacity).....or you not looking at a "white elephant"?

It makes no sense for something like this when Commonwealth Stadium is available to use. I'm not sure what the capacity for a concert is but I'm sure it's over 60,000. Aside from the Stones selling out two concerts here 20 years ago, would we have ever needed something bigger? That stadium could almost be classified as a white elephant. The Eskimos only use it ten or so times a year. Maybe 4 or 5 other events in an average year. With all the money the city has spent on renovation, it needs to be used more, not less. If there is a need to move festivals around the city, and I don't think there is, hold them there. Absolutely no need for the city to pay to build another facility just for both of them to sit empty.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Back on topic, I like the idea. It offers something new to the city and horse racing isnt my thing. If it's an area that could seat as some saying 70-100,000 people that would be a great venue for outdoor festivals - they've been kicked out of the country, the football field is needed for football, and to have the ability to hold festivals on that level (or smaller) appeals to me as a consumer of entertainment. All for it

The problem is for a festival to even get that big takes 3-5 years and even then you need a huge appeal like camping which you can't really do at an inner city site.

Edmonton even with major league soccer would sell probably 40-60k tickets a game MAX so even then you have 30-40k seats empty. It just doesn't make sense for the city.

The idea behind it sounds cool and great but logistically and financially it doesnt.